223 réponses à ce sujet

[Kinsz]

Seconded the anyone but Leliana comment :-)

 

The best choice is Cassandra but you cant go wrong with Vivienne either ...if you believe that the circles should be maintained that is.

[Lulupab]

Pardon me, but Bull ****. 

 

There is no such thing as permanent happy ending where everyone hold hands and sing the song of peace. You can't fool me. Here is what it said in un-hardened Leliana Divine ending.

 

"She meet with their leaders, urging unity. Miraculously her words take root, and - for now - the Chantry remains strong."

 

Thats softened Leliana, you have the gall to call it bullshit without even knowing the difference between softened and hardened Leliana.

 

"Her response is as swift as it is deadly, unity is maintained, but blood runs through the halls of the Grand Cathedral." No doubt, no "for nows". Unity is mainted, period.

 

Horse****.

It's maintained until she crosses the line enough to be replaced or killed.

Go on Leliana go ****** off Gaspard I dare you.

That Cathedral won't stand up to a good trebuchet.

 

Nice headcanon, should turn it into fanfiction. I'd like to remind you know that Leliana knows Gaspard's secrets, just because the player didn't expose then doesn' t mean anything. Sorry Gaspard, owned by the game, as per usual.

[Br3admax]

The Free marches states annexed each other a lot of times but it was always freed because rebellion came after rebellion. The free marches is meant to be made of independent city states. All greedy rulers failed in history of Thedas and Sebastian is no different. He is out of luck.

I don't care, just as long as that place is wiped from the face of Thedas. I don't need a history lesson on the Free Marches. I need the place it is now purged. 

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Thats softened Leliana, you have the gall to call it bullshit without even knowing the difference between softened and hardened Leliana.

 

"Her response is as swift as it is deadly, unity is maintained, but blood runs through the halls of the Grand Cathedral." No doubt, no "for nows". Unity is mainted, period.

Oh, I'm sorry, but perhaps my eyes got the better of me, but you're naive if you actually believe it'll stay that way forever. Anything could change, and there's always a new threat who'll rise to challenge her, no one is able to rule forever.

[Basement Cat]

Oh, I'm sorry, but perhaps my eyes got the better of me, but you're naive if you actually believe it'll stay that way forever. Anything could change, and there's always a new threat who'll rise to challenge her, no one is able to rule forever.

That's true for the other two as well. I think all three will run into trouble at some point. What kind of trouble depends on their approach, but...

[Master Warder Z_]

Sorry Gaspard, owned by the game, as per usual.

Except he doesn't need to care anymore.

He's Emperor.

That blackmail from the winter palace isn't really important because for one the empress is already dead, he's on the throne, and the people behind the plot already known.

So head canon? Honestly I'm starting to think you don't understand the term.

Leliana is only going to get her way until she pushes hard enough to be pushed back, physics.

[Lulupab]

Oh, I'm sorry, but perhaps my eyes got the better of me, but you're naive if you actually believe it'll stay that way forever. Anything could change, and there's always a new threat who'll rise to challenge her, no one is able to rule forever.

 

No one has problems with her reforms except the zealot ones in the Chantry. No one is going to pick up pitchforks and march on her, because she is helping the poor and helpless by rededicating Chantry to charity. People who can oppose her are dead. 

 

 

Except he doesn't need to care anymore.

He's Emperor.

That blackmail from the winter palace isn't really important because for one the empress is already dead, he's on the throne, and the people behind the plot already known.

So head canon? Honestly I'm starting to think you don't understand the term.

Leliana is only going to get her way until she pushes hard enough to be pushed back, physics.

 

Yeah, like he will end himself if he opposes the divine. And as I said above, everyone are happy with Leliana except the extreme parts of the Chantry. Gaspard will fall in line like all others.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, like he will end himself if he opposes the divine.

He opposed the prior one.

Openly.

At court.

I'll back Gaspard if it comes to blows, secrets don't stop swords.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

That's true for the other two as well. I think all three will run into trouble at some point. What kind of trouble depends on their approach, but...

That, I have no doubt...

 

 

No one has problems with her reforms except the zealot ones in the Chantry. No one is going to pick up pitchforks and march on her, because she is helping the poor and helpless by rededicating Chantry to charity. People who can oppose her are dead. 

I said any new threat could rise in the future, and we don't know who, but anything could happen and even if most people favor Leliana's decision to make life better for most people, not everyone like her. Hell, it's realistic to assume that there'll be many who wish to see her fall so they could become the Divine, and have all the power for themselves. I didn't say her reign would be short lived. I only say you can't expect even hardened Leliana to not face a new enemy in the future. She can keep killing people who oppose her, and it doesn't matter there'll always be a new enemy rise to challenge her.

[Lulupab]

I'll back Gaspard if it comes to blows, secrets don't stop swords.

 

it does. if you fail at the ball and don't use secrets Orlais falls and its game over. Not even the strongest sword or magic can save it. Only intrigue and secrets can. Also you need to take a look at real life history. Queen Elizabeth laughed at this very notion when she made short work of biggest rebellions by secrets and politics. Leliana and Josephine keep the Inquisition alive, Cullen is merely a means to an end.

 

Also opposed and couldn't do anything. He is allowed to question but then again his country is saved by mages so I doubt he will even consider it. I called it headcanon because you think Gaspard will oppose Leliana, forgetting the fact that Leliana has full support of Inquisition and Gaspard is on throne because of Inquisition. He will not do anything, not like he can do anything. With all the nobles that resist his rule the epilogue is quite explicit when it says Gaspard is fully relying on Inquisition to back it up.

[Lulupab]

That, I have no doubt...

 

 

I said any new threat could rise in the future, and we don't know who, but anything could happen and even if most people favor Leliana's approach, not everyone like her. Hell, it's realistic to assume that there'll be many who wish to see her fall so they could become the Divine, and have all the power for themselves. I didn't say her reign would be short lived. I only say you can't expect even hardened Leliana to not face a new enemy in the future.

 

Its not in any more danger than falling that other Divine candidates. Specially Vivienne who spends months to crush rebellions and uproar which happen immediately.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Its not in any more danger than falling that other Divine candidates. Specially Vivienne who spends months to crush rebellions and uproar which happen immediately.

Indeed, but it doesn't mean peace and stability will last forever. I'm not saying she's bad, she's certainly get things done and her intention are good, but you shouldn't expect her to rule without facing an enemy forever.  I don't even support Vivienne to be the new Divine. It's not a problem for me since she never ascend to the Sunburst Throne in any of my play-through.

[Lord Raijin]

Vivienne is the best option for a pro Templars. Cassandra already has a goal in mind, and that is to reform the seek of truth. Without her Seekers would be no more... Leliana's approach is quite dangerous.. No more circles? Even as a pro mage player myself.... The Circles are there for a reason...to help teach young mages magic in a safe environment. 

 

The Chantry needed a big change, and Vivienne could very well be the change that the Chantry needs.... I might be wrong thought.

[Master Warder Z_]

not like he can do anything. With all the nobles that resist his rule the epilogue is quite explicit when it says Gaspard is fully relying on Inquisition to back it up.

That's entirely false.

Gaspard put down dissent, and it allowed him to engage in his favorite pastime.

Militarism.

Ultimately Gaspard was right, he killed a few nobles and the rest bowed.

In the epilogue it said he remembers the debt to the inquisition.

Not that he's weak or incapable.

So yeah, nothing posted negates my point.

You can cite Elizabeth until her corpse rises as a zombie by the way, it still won't make Leliana her.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Vivienne is the best option for a pro Templars.

*cough* Cassandra *cough*

[Master Warder Z_]

*cough* Cassandra *cough*

No.

[RobRam10]

*cough* Leliana best divine *cough*

Spoiler

to destroy the Chantry

[Kinsz]

*cough* Leliana best divine *cough*

Spoiler

to destroy the Chantry

Lawl , dont know why im laughing so hard at this but there it is.

[Lord Raijin]

*cough* Cassandra *cough*

 

Cassandra is a Thom boy... She doesn't like wearing dresses or anything like that. Making her the new divine is cruel. She prefers her armor over a big bulky hat

[TheKomandorShepard]

There is no "for now" in hardened Leliana epilogue. Unity is maintained permanently.

Yes there is read again what i wrote if she is hardened for now is gone only about chantry unity in case of mages there is always for now unless you supported templars but pretty much doesn't change much because it only focus on templars instead mages.

 

*cough* Leliana best divine *cough*

Spoiler

to destroy the Chantry

 

I would say that viv if you are in bad terms with her is best for that leliana is best divine if you want end with another disasters tormenting thedas.

 

But good luck i doubt bioware will put chantry down .

[Bigdoser]

All three divines are bloody valid what is people's problem saying one or the other will end in revolt bloody hell man. 

[Lulupab]

That's entirely false.

Gaspard put down dissent, and it allowed him to engage in his favorite pastime.

Militarism.

Ultimately Gaspard was right, he killed a few nobles and the rest bowed.

In the epilogue it said he remembers the debt to the inquisition.

Not that he's weak or incapable.

So yeah, nothing posted negates my point.

You can cite Elizabeth until her corpse rises as a zombie by the way, it still won't make Leliana her.

 

You are nitpicking and it does you no credit. I expect you to quote all my post and answer them. You ignored the fact that only secrets and intigue can save Orlais at the ball, not the biggest sword can save it. I get it, its hard for you to digest strongest nation in south Thedas getting defeated by mere politics and secrets. Leliana is Elizabeth, except she is better. Elizabeth had strong spy networks. Leliana IS the spy network, she is also the ruler.

 

Gaspard isn't weak, I don't remember saying that. However he is incapable to do anything against the chantry and Inquisition combined, both of which are growing rapidly after epilogue. Declaring war against neither will end his reign and he knows it better than you and I. 

 

And why are we discussing hyperbole, the college only happens if you side with mages and if you side with mages it mean mages help Orlais from falling and fought beside them. This also means they were part of supporting Gaspard. Gaspard is not going to turn against his allies.

[MisterJB]

Now for a serious discussion. I am unsure how to feel about Vivienne as Divine.

I approve of much of her actions. Her unwillingness to tolerate apostates forming their own independent college is commendable. However, what greater freedoms she granted the mages were never specified and nominating a mage as Divine sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Now for a serious discussion. I am unsure how to feel about Vivienne as Divine.

I approve of much of her actions. Her unwillingness to tolerate apostates forming their own independent college is commendable. However, what greater freedoms she granted the mages were never specified and nominating a mage as Divine sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

 

That's why I like Vivienne as a divine in some of my mage playthroughs.

 

Sure, you could make Leliana divine and take the straightforward path regarding mage rights, but why settle for that? Why not take the subtle and far more insidious route by making Vivienne divine? With her at the head of the chantry, mages have the groundwork to demand more and more position be available for them, each setting a precedent for the other. And in the end, after a century or two, mages shall rule from the Borric ocean to the Frozen seas once more.

[blahblahblah]

That's why I like Vivienne as a divine in some of my mage playthroughs.

 

Sure, you could make Leliana divine and take the straightforward path regarding mage rights, but why settle for that? Why not take the subtle and far more insidious route by making Vivienne divine? With her at the head of the chantry, mages have the groundwork to demand more and more position be available for them, each setting a precedent for the other. And in the end, after a century or two, mages shall rule from the Borric ocean to the Frozen seas once more.

It also makes a way for mages to step on the position as a Divine. I like her idea to make the Templar Order into a glorified watch dogs like in Tevinter.