223 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

Thank you for giving me a point in one of those phrases, whereever you mentioned it.  We don't need those mages free because their minds are too weak when exposed to the real world..

 

"And mages imagine why people fear them, no one should have it's power". I love that phrase.

 

In Bioware, two or three mages in a cutscene can mean thousand mages in backgrounds doing the dealing. Well can't say much because I, like you have wondered how Cory got in there unnoticed. we can only assume speculations.

 

And I'm not pretending my dear, It's a game and I had to share my* most honest opinions about this situation.

 

And opinions can differ. Like you cannot name a real Templar who isn't crazy, zealot etc and is on our side... Barris is the first one and no wonder he has a lot of fans. A real templar who is still a Templar but he is not crazy. It goes without saying that Alistair was never really a Templar. OK maybe there are more than one but they are immediately a traitor such as Evangeline. I know there are good Templars out there, but this is in regards to you saying "4 mages is enough to judge all mages" argument, which really isn't an argument but a huge fallacy. if that's true then all templars are pretty much evil. 

[SgtSteel91]

All three divines are bloody valid what is people's problem saying one or the other will end in revolt bloody hell man. 

 

Because they want to be Right and for everyone else to be Wrong, because they are Childish Nerds who can't let other people who don't share their views have fun.

[Akkos]

And opinions can differ. Like you cannot name a real Templar who isn't crazy, zealot etc and is on our side... Barris is the first one and no wonder he has a lot of fans. A real templar who is still a Templar but he is not crazy. It goes without saying that Alistair was never really a Templar. OK maybe there are more than one but they are immediately a traitor such as Evangeline. I know there are good Templars out there, but this is in regards to you saying "4 mages is enough to judge all mages" argument, which really isn't an argument but a huge fallacy. if that's true then all templars are pretty much evil. 

 

But Barris is not the one that made my opinion differ from yours. But those poor innocents templars deserve to be respected and more than those rebellious mages.

 

Let me help you:

 

Ser Otto, Rexel, Irminic, Thrask, Keran. All except Cullen(the unfortunate and retard one).. Had stronger mind and fought for what they call "justice for all" , but demons either killed them or discapacited them.

 

Name me a "known mage" who did suffer from Templars, apart from those from Kirkwall.

[Lulupab]

Well then you won't mind providing a source

 

TBH that's something I've read and remember from Old Ferelden threads, so don't take my word on it, could be false, could be right. I don't even know where to look for it.

 

However this wasn't even the point I tried to made, its not about Chantry. Its about a crazy noble becoming emperor, Emperor Reville. Usually known as "Mad Emperor". He was born and later ascended to a power to raze a country to the ground. That killed more than all magical incidents in Ferelden combined.

[SgtSteel91]

Name me a "known mage" who did suffer from Templars, apart from those from Kirkwall.

 

Anders, who suffered from Templars in Fereldan.

 

Cole, who was left to rot by Templars in Orlais.

[Akkos]

Anders, who suffered from Templars in Fereldan.

 

Are you serious?  Anders?  Suffered from Templars?

 

Not even that tranquil mage, Ander's former beloved.. who ever he was...

[SgtSteel91]

Are you serious?  Anders?  Suffered from Templars?

 

Solitary confinement can mess you up, especially for a year. At least he got to come out, unlike Cole.

[Lulupab]

But Barris is not the one that made my opinion differ from yours. But those poor innocents templars deserve to be respected and more than those rebellious mages.

 

Let me help you:

 

Ser Otto, Rexel, Irminic, Thrask, Keran. All except Cullen(the unfortunate and retard one).. Had stronger mind and fought for what they call "justice for all" , but demons either killed them or discapacited them.

 

Name me a "known mage" who did suffer from Templars, apart from those from Kirkwall.

 

Expecting mages to give up their most basic rights such as family and children to live in prisons in suffering enough. So to answer your question for a mage who suffered under Templars, "all of them" is my answer. Heck even Vivienne approves when you call Templars on their bullsh|t ways, hence her treatment of Templars if she becomes divine. Which is same as Tevinter Templars except they can take Lyrium.

 

Way too many insignificant names, Keran kidnaps people. Thrask is seen as traitor. I have Bethany which obliterates anything you throw at me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Solitary confinement can mess you up, especially for a year. At least he got to come out, unlike Cole.

Yeah how dear they punish mage that repeatedly broke law what a monsters!

[Lulupab]

Are you serious?  Anders?  Suffered from Templars?

 

Not even that tranquil mage, Ander's former beloved.. who ever he was...

 

Anders is probably the most tormented mage in Thedas and when you hate something that much it will explode in your face, quite literally in Anders' case.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Anders is probably the most tormented mage in Thedas and when you hate something that much it will explode in your face, quite literally in Anders' case.

Anders was dangerous criminal circles were very soft they didn't simple executed for what he was doing.

[Akkos]

Expecting mages to give up their most basic rights such as family and children to live in prisons in suffering enough. So to answer your question for a mage who suffered under Templars, "all of them" is my answer. Heck even Vivienne approves when you call Templars on their bullsh|t ways, hence her treatment of Templars if she becomes divine. Which is same as Tevinter Templars except they can take Lyrium.

 

Way too many insignificant names, Keran kidnaps people. Thrask is seen as traitor. I have Bethany which obliterates anything you throw at me.

 

Point taken. I'm aware of that. But also templars too. From apostates and demons.

 

Anders is probably the most tormented mage in Thedas and when you hate something that much it will explode in your face, quite literally in Anders' case.

 

Hahahah, then let me remind you, he exploded the chantry and killed thousands of innocent people, not templars..... with "a snap of his finger".

 

Best terriorist ever.

[Lulupab]

Anders was dangerous criminal circles were very soft they didn't simple executed for what he was doing.

 

What he was doing? He didn't harm an ant and he went to solitary imprisonment for it. Anders wasn't dangerous, nor he posed risked to anyone. After seven times he said enough is enough and took revenge. A spirit lead him to that way, but he joined with him willingly.

 

I always saw a lot of similarities between V (from V for Vendetta) and Anders. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the inspiration. Destroying a building that forever changes the world.

[TheKomandorShepard]

What he was doing? He didn't harm an ant and he went to solitary imprisonment for it. Anders wasn't dangerous, nor he posed risked to anyone. After seven times he said enough is enough and took revenge. A spirit lead him to that way, but he joined with him willingly.

 

I always saw a lot of similarities between V (from V for Vendetta) and Anders. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the inspiration. Destroying a building that forever changes the world.

He escaped circles 7 times and yes anders was dangerous pretty much that he was dumb enough to merge with spirit was prove that guy shouldn't be allowed to walk free. And i don't know in what world you live but you are punished for breaking law not only when you hurt someone.

[Lulupab]

He escaped circles 7 times and yes anders was dangerous pretty much that he was dumb enough to merge with spirit was prove that guy shouldn't be allowed to walk free. And i don't know in what world you live but you are punished for breaking law not only when you hurt someone.

 

The law was wrong. Templars coming after him even after he became a grey warden was the last straw. Not to mention they did it after the king/queen of Ferelden itself ordered Anders to be left alone. There is thing called "going too far". The Templars never tormented a mage who became a grey warden like they did Anders. They even had the gall to send a spy. If they left him alone I think we all know that none of that would happen and he would live happily as a free mage. In awakening he always approves of helping people and greatly disapproves of you don't help Amaranthine. He kills hundreds of darkspawn all by himself if you let him defend vigil's keep and is branded champion of Vigil like Hawke was. The chantry and Templars ruined him. So he took revenge, hence my V comparison. V for Vengeance.

[In Exile]

She may not be the best choice, but I don't think she's laying the groundwork for an Imperium

She's a True Believer in the Circle system. Including Templars to check the power of mages. She just wants to do away with the abuses it has led to.

She doesn't believe in the Circle. That her rhetoric. She believes in advancing herself. And all she knows how to do is to pretend to ingratiate herself into the status quo. Why do you think she's so receptive to mages being in the Chantry, despite the fact that this is heresy under the current doctrine?

[TheKomandorShepard]

The law was wrong. Templars coming after him even after he became a grey warden was the last straw. Not to mention they did it after the king/queen of Ferelden itself ordered Anders to be left alone. There is thing called "going too far". The Templars never tormented a mage who became a grey warden like they did Anders. They even had the gall to send a spy. If they left him alone I think we all know that none of that would happen and he would live happily as a free mage. In awakening he always approves of helping people and greatly disapproves of you don't help Amaranthine. He kills hundreds of darkspawn all by himself if you let him defend vigil's keep and is branded champion of Vigil like Hawke was. The chantry and Templars ruined him. So he took revenge, hence my V comparison. V for Vengeance.

From what i remember not templars but small group of templars that wanted revenge for peoples that anders in fact could kill that broke themselves law.And no law wasn't wrong because law exist for practical reasons not moral.Later from what i remember anders become an abomnation so pretty much duh they went after him even wardens sold him for that...

[DuskWanderer]

You need only look at the Saarebas to see what mages would do without organized education. Fortunately, Leliana doesn't want that any more than Cassandra.

 

But yeah, if you ally with the templars, the best choice is easily Cassandra. She reforms the Templars and many of them join the Seekers instead. They have similar abilities, but they don't have to take lyrium to get it. Cuts down on the crazy. 

[dragonflight288]

From what i remember not templars but small group of templars that wanted revenge for peoples that anders in fact could kill that broke themselves law.And no law wasn't wrong because law exist for practical reasons not moral.Later from what i remember anders become an abomnation so pretty much duh they went after him even wardens sold him for that...

 

Ser Rylock acted against the will of the crown and the sovereignty of the Grey Wardens right of conscription, and outright tells you that her authority as a templar supercedes the authority of the crown. 

 

Ser Rylon is in Anders Short Story before DA2 came out, written by Jennifer Hepler, and he was sent into the Wardens by the templars as a spy to keep tabs on Anders. 

 

Anders may have had it both easier and harder than most mages because he formed fond memories of his mother before being taken away from her in chains, but he also got to spend time with his mother and wasn't abandoned like Jowan was, or bullied and parentless like Wynne was, or killed by a lynchmob as Minaeve nearly was, but he also has a greater appreciation of what was lost. 

 

And the templars were making it a point to go against Ferelden's laws in favor of their own idealogy when it came to Anders being a Grey Warden. Had they left him alone, he wouldn't have been possessed by Justice and never ended up in Kirkwall....and Hawke wouldn't have gotten the Grey Warden maps so there wouldn't have been an idol. 

 

I'm not saying the templars are responsible for what happened, because that would negate the free will of everyone in Kirkwall but I am saying that zealotry in the templars is an issue, one that is even acknowledged in the templar codex by saying that religious fervor is looked at before those of character. And Anders suffered as a direct result of that zealotry from templars who couldn't leave well enough alone. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Osama bin Anders has no justification for his terrorism.

Years in the Fereldan circle don't justify murdering a single person, little lone several hundred.

[Jackums]

Osama bin Anders has no justification for his terrorism.

Years in the Fereldan circle don't justify murdering a single person, little lone several hundred.

You seem to believe you have the authority to decide what "justifies murder." You not long ago advocated Gaspard murdering nobles to quell dissent, yet years of mistreatment and denial of basic human rights conveniently doesn't make murder OK in your book.

 

Hypocritical, arbitrary, bigotry, double-standards; all accurate terms."Murder is OK when it furthers my ignorant, dogmatic agenda."

[Master Warder Z_]

You seem to believe you have the authority to decide what "justifies murder." You not long ago advocated Gaspard murdering nobles to quell dissent

It isn't the same situation, they chose to stand against their monarch.

To plot and allow greed to hamper the Empire.

They didn't plant a bomb in a church.

Thought if they did it would certainly be easier to excuse killing them.

Seriously comparing nobles who stand against the emperor to priests who die because of an insane abomination.

That you would even attempt to label treachery being dealt with to calling terrorism what is...a double standard.

Seriously is that your actual take on it?

[Jackums]

It isn't the same situation, they chose to stand against their monarch.

To plot and allow greed to hamper the Empire.

They didn't plant a bomb in a church.

Thought if they did it would certainly be easier to excuse killing them.

Seriously comparing nobles who stand against the emperor to priests who die because of an insane abomination.

That you would even attempt to label treachery being dealt with to calling terrorism what is...a double standard.

Seriously is that your actual take on it?

"... they chose to stand against their monarch."

 

So it's a dictatorship, not a democracy? Murder is OK when they disagree with the expansionist, militaristic tyrant you support?

 

Again, not doing much for yourself when it comes to the whole "bigoted, double-standards" thing. I never excused Anders' actions. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy in you condemning him yet simultaneously advocating murder when it comes to agendas and dogmas you personally support.

[Master Warder Z_]

"... they chose to stand against their monarch."

So it's a dictatorship, not a democracy?

Absolute Monarchy but yes it isn't a democratic state.

Those don't exist in Thedas.

[Lulupab]

Anders was hunted down and spied upon when he became a grey warden and king/queen of Ferelden ordered him to be left alone. The Organization that ignores this deserves to be blown up, and Anders made it pink, much more deserving. Too bad innocents died as well, but the Chantry and Templars inside them? More than deserved.

 

I think anyone can see the connection between Anders and V (V for Vendetta) After all the torments from childhood, they both destroyed a building that forever changed the world.

 

Absolute Monarchy but yes it isn't a democratic state.

Those don't exist in Thedas.

 

Warder you are out of your league, stick to your military and dictatorships and let us do out job in democracy, there is a very thin line between them anyway and Gaspard crossed the line ages ago. When there is landsmeet, heck when when there is Magisterium, you just don't know what you're talking about. These systems, which can be related to real life governments at older times are closest you can get to democracy in their time such as feudal ages.

 

inb4 hyperbole 

 

Gaspard shares your're views in this matter "One ring to rule them all". No wonder you worship him, justifying his vile murders and crimes for "good of nation".