102 réponses à ce sujet

[Red of Rivia]

but the Chantry doesn't name the Old Gods of Tevinter something else, it still names them Gods, not on par with the Maker, but still Gods

Not even call them pagan gods... The Chantry really have an explanation for these beings?

[Steelcan]

Not even call them pagan gods... The Chantry really have an explanation for these beings?

Presumably, they are part of the Maker's original creation, the Fade

 

and he cast them out into the Earth following their deceit and their depravity

[dragonflight288]

 

ARTHUR

 

Don't shake a fist at her!

Spoiler

[Steelcan]

Don't shake a fist at her!

Spoiler

bow before a true king

 

Spoiler

[Red of Rivia]

Presumably, they are part of the Maker's original creation, the Fade

 

and he cast them out into the Earth following their deceit and their depravity

Based on this we can assume that: they are like spirits or demons?

[Rekkampum]

A true syncretism would be difficult, as the Maker doesn't really allow for incorporating a pantheon. It's really hard to blend a monotheistic religion with a polytheistic one. There's some syncretism with Catholic belief (like in voudoun), but largely because the Catholic saints lend themselves well to that sort of thing - just rebrand your local gods as saints and it all hangs together fairly well. But as far as I know, there's no tradition of sainthood among the Chantry. 

 

The other problem is that the Chantry actively betrayed the elves by calling their Exalted March. Yes, yes, it was an unfortunate misunderstanding - but it was an unfortunate misunderstanding answered with war and destruction. The elves who follow their pantheon aren't likely to accept Chantry doctrine so easily after that. 

Definitely. A friend is a Babalawo and told me about how they used Catholic Saints to worship Orishas in secret. Many still do, especially in Latin America.

I think that Andrastian theology being monotheistic really won't matter in the end, because pivotal figures in Chantry history can simply be used to epitomize those in the elvhen pantheon. As long as there are figures with similar roles, there will be signifiers to utilize. That aside, I think that syncretism on a major scale is definitely unlikely, given the cultural and ideological clashes the two societies have with each other.

[Steelcan]

Based on this we can assume that: they are like spirits or demons?

they might be in their own category, and the Elven Pantheon would be similar to them

[dragonflight288]

bow before a true king

 

Spoiler

 

Maybe in a PM. 

[LobselVith8]

They should do more than remember him though. They disrespected that legacy in the Dales.

 

Following their own religion didn't disrespect Shartan.

 

There must've been a reason they united with Andraste beyond convenience. I find it hard to believe it was anything like an Inquisition alliance.

 

Shartan and the elves escaped slavery, and then found and allied with Andraste because she was waging war against the Imperium.

[Master Warder Z_]

They should do more than remember him though. They disrespected that legacy in the Dales.

There must've been a reason they united with Andraste beyond convenience. I find it hard to believe it was anything like an Inquisition alliance.

Honestly that Codex description of events made me think it was inspiring as anything could be.

Andraste herself anointed him in full view of her army and generals.

[X Equestris]

Based on this we can assume that: they are like spirits or demons?

Pretty much. They're probably also the closest equivalent that the Andrastian faith has to satanic figures.

[Steelcan]

Maybe in a PM. 

 

well your profile is private so that's not happening

[dragonflight288]

well your profile is private so that's not happening

 

I can bring in Gilgamesh if you'd prefer. 

[Steelcan]

I can bring in Gilgamesh if you'd prefer. 

nonsense, Saber does have a good friend though that can be called up

 

Spoiler

[phaonica]

Based on this we can assume that: they are like spirits or demons?

The Chant of Light seems to teach that, yes, the Old Gods were demons.

The first of the Maker's children watched across the Veil
And grew jealous of the life
They could not feel, could not touch.
In blackest envy were the demons born.

Those who had been cast down,
The demons who would be gods,
Began to whisper to men from their tombs within the earth.
And the men of Tevinter heard and raised altars
To the pretender-gods once more,
And in return were given, in hushed whispers,
The secrets of darkest magic.

The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
(this last is a dissonant verse, so may not be commonly known)

[dragonflight288]

nonsense, Saber does have a good friend though that can be called up

 

Spoiler

 

Right. 

[Steelcan]

Right. 

why'd it get small, it was much more impressive when I first linked it

 

oh well

[phaonica]

I does seem odd that if Andraste was attempting to spread the faith of the Maker, that she would agree to give the elves their own land to practice their own religion in peace, when the Chant seems to imply that *all* races should be converted to the Chant. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something.

[X Equestris]

I does seem odd that if Andraste was attempting to spread the faith of the Maker, that she would agree to give the elves their own land to practice their own religion in peace, when the Chant seems to imply that *all* races should be converted to the Chant. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something.

She didn't give them the land. Maferath's sons did.

[Red of Rivia]

The Chant of Light seems to teach that, yes, the Old Gods were demons.

The first of the Maker's children watched across the Veil
And grew jealous of the life
They could not feel, could not touch.
In blackest envy were the demons born.

Those who had been cast down,
The demons who would be gods,
Began to whisper to men from their tombs within the earth.
And the men of Tevinter heard and raised altars
To the pretender-gods once more,
And in return were given, in hushed whispers,
The secrets of darkest magic.

The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
(this last is a dissonant verse, so may not be commonly known)

Interesting, if Dumat really led the mages of Tevinter to the golden city, which he hoped to gain? freedom?

[Steelcan]

I does seem odd that if Andraste was attempting to spread the faith of the Maker, that she would agree to give the elves their own land to practice their own religion in peace, when the Chant seems to imply that *all* races should be converted to the Chant. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something.

. Its likely the elves were originally at least nominally Andrastian

[Master Warder Z_]

I does seem odd that if Andraste was attempting to spread the faith of the Maker, that she would agree to give the elves their own land to practice their own religion in peace, when the Chant seems to imply that *all* races should be converted to the Chant. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something.

It ceases to be an issue when that religion is a dead one and their leaders convert no?

I think Andraste was pretty clever in anointing Shartan.

It was a chance for a new beginning under a shared systems of faith.

[LobselVith8]

I does seem odd that if Andraste was attempting to spread the faith of the Maker, that she would agree to give the elves their own land to practice their own religion in peace, when the Chant seems to imply that *all* races should be converted to the Chant. Maybe I'm misinterpreting something.

 

The Chantry of Andraste is also the religious organization based on one of the many Cults of the Maker (one that was followed by Drakon and turned into a nationalized religion), and we simply don't know how Andraste actually reacted to an elven army who followed their own gods - she may have simply been focused on the defeat of the Imperium.