102 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

She didn't give them the land. Maferath's sons did.

Ah, I see. Okay then. Thank you!

[Master Warder Z_]

The Chantry of Andraste is also the religious organization based on one of the many Cults of the Maker (one that was followed by Drakon and turned into a nationalized religion), and we simply don't know how Andraste actually reacted to an elven army who followed their own gods - she may have simply been focused on the defeat of the Imperium.

We also don't know if they even followed their own gods as a rule.

The most notable elf of the era didn't.

[phaonica]

Interesting, if Dumat really led the mages of Tevinter to the golden city, which he hoped to gain? freedom?

Don't know. According to the Chant, not only did Dumat turn on those who worshiped him, but it also resulted in the Maker turning His back on the world. Really the only explanation implied is because Dumat is a demon and that's what demons do.

[phaonica]

I was under the impression that most elven lore had been lost while the elves were Tevinter slaves. They may not even have had an 'elven religion' at that time. And the Chant seemed to offer some level of equality, as far as raising up slaves as equals in the Maker's eyes. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be Andrastean, at least until they were established in the Dales and began to uncover old legends.

[Master Warder Z_]

Blessed is the prophet blessed by flame.

[LobselVith8]

That's what I was thinking.. but I suppose it's safe to not make any claims on that. It's all very up in the air. Just seems like Andraste did more than build military alliances. She was a religious figure, first and foremost.

 

Except the Dalish reference that their ancestors saw Andraste as a war leader, not a religious figure.

 

As Gisharel wrote, "You will hear tales of the woman Andraste. The shemlen name her prophet, bride of their Maker. But we knew her as a war leader, one who, like us, had been a slave and dreamed of liberation. We joined her rebellion against the Imperium, and our heroes died beside her, unmourned, in Tevinter bonfires."

[Master Warder Z_]

Except the Dalish reference that their ancestors saw Andraste as a war leader, not a religious figure.

And that old racist said that how many centuries later?

[LobselVith8]

And yet we meet one of her own disciples, who's still awestruck by her after millenia..and can't express her in normal terms.

 

So you decided to respond to my post about how the elves saw her as a war leader with an unrelated comment about how a human revered Andraste because...?

[Master Warder Z_]

And you bring up a modern take on events of nearly a thousand years ago by people famous for getting their history wrong.

[LobselVith8]

Because we're talking about the same person. How is that unrelated?

 

Your comment had absolutely nothing to do with what I said about how it's referenced that the elves saw Andraste as a war leader; bringing up that a human revered her doesn't really change the simple fact that it has nothing to do with how the elves at the time viewed her (the elves who would end up founding a kingdom where they followed their own gods). In fact, it's the only historical reference noting how the elves perceived Andraste.

[Master Warder Z_]

Historical?

Psssf.

It's a bed time story cooked up by the dalish.

[Augustei]

A true syncretism would be difficult, as the Maker doesn't really allow for incorporating a pantheon. It's really hard to blend a monotheistic religion with a polytheistic one. There's some syncretism with Catholic belief (like in voudoun), but largely because the Catholic saints lend themselves well to that sort of thing - just rebrand your local gods as saints and it all hangs together fairly well. But as far as I know, there's no tradition of sainthood among the Chantry. 

 

The other problem is that the Chantry actively betrayed the elves by calling their Exalted March. Yes, yes, it was an unfortunate misunderstanding - but it was an unfortunate misunderstanding answered with war and destruction. The elves who follow their pantheon aren't likely to accept Chantry doctrine so easily after that. 

There actually is Sainthood in the Chantry, they're called The Annointed. Emperor Drakon I of Orlais and King Calenhad of Ferelden are among their number.

[Augustei]

Your comment had absolutely nothing to do with what I said about how it's referenced that the elves saw Andraste as a war leader; bringing up that a human revered her doesn't really change the simple fact that it has nothing to do with how the elves at the time viewed her (the elves who would end up founding a kingdom where they followed their own gods). In fact, it's the only historical reference noting how the elves perceived Andraste.

Didn't Shartan convert?

[LobselVith8]

See.. You only see a human.

 

What I was pointing out was a guy from her own time. 

 

In other words, completely unrelated to how the elves saw her.

[Master Warder Z_]

In other words, completely unrelated to how the elves saw her.

Eh... not really.

Your source is second hand oral tradition bro.

Not accurate.

[Augustei]

If Calenhad made it there, it's a sham then.

True the guy was an idiot, but Yeah he didn't make it there for uniting Ferelden but for allowing the Chantry in to establish there

[LobselVith8]

 

If Calenhad made it there, it's a sham then.

 

Well, it could certainly vary on the kind of person who was elected Anointed, like Ser Mhemet. "Ser Mhemet, a Rivaini templar, fought in the Exalted March on the Dales for one reason: his love of killing elves, which pushed him to so many victories, the Chantry elevated him to Anointed after his death. To this day, Halamshiral elves consider his name a curse."

 

If that's how you want to see it, then I have nothing else to say. Sorry.

 

I figured a peer was a better source than anything.

 

You figured someone who provided no insight into the perspectives of the elves at the time was a good example to bring up. So we're left with the historical account about how the elves saw Andraste as a war leader.