140 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunslinger01101]

...in so many ways, is to go find the templars, and then make them disband and join the inquisition outright. Hold on, don't get mad, here's my logic:

 

My first playthrough I went to meet Fiona and did the whole Alexius time magic thing. One of the differences I noted is that the introduction of Cole vs Dorian makes WAAAAAAAY more sense and is far less confusing if you go with the Templars. Dorian was fine when I went with the mages, but Cole was just like, uhhhh what? Who? Huh?

 

Meanwhile Cole's intro in the Templar mission is perfect, and really eases you into his whole thing. And then Dorian's intro is perfectly fine too and well explained. Hey, I'm a good tevinter mage coming to warn you that all of your mages have been taken over by bad tevinter mages! Makes perfect sense! Then there's the kinda gamey *you wouldn't know about it ahead of time* choice that by choosing the templars, you've chosen the hard-counter, as it were, to the enemy you will now mainly fight. Whereas in choosing the mages, you choose to BE hard countered.

 

These and other smaller things just make it seem like the templar choice is what bioware initially thought out, and the mage choice was somehow later molded to be an alternative. 

 

Granted though....TIME TRAVEL IS AWESOME, so, there's that for the mage choice.

 

Thoughts?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I disagree. It makes no sense to go to the Templars over the Mages. There is no logical reason to ignore a man who can bend the fabric of space and time and is working for the enemy so you can have a chat with the Templars. 

[AshenEndymion]

I disagree. It makes no sense to go to the Templars over the Mages. There is no logical reason to ignore a man who can bend the fabric of space and time and is working for the enemy so you can have a chat with the Templars. 

 

If the man could truly bend the fabric of space and time to any extent that could hurt the Inquisition, he'd have done that rather than take over Redcliffe and recruit mages.

 

As such, there is little reason not to ignore him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If the man could truly bend the fabric of space and time to an extent that it would hurt the Inquisition, he'd have done that rather than take over Redcliffe and recruit mages.  

Getting the Mages was to hurt the Inquisition. He was sent by the Elder One to get the mages so the Inquisition couldn't have them, just like why he sends the Envy demon to get the Templars. That's why during the invasion of Haven Cole says, "He doesn't like that you took his mages." 

[Sifr]

Y'know, I said the same thing a while ago, both Cole and Dorian's intro's really suffer depending on who you side with.

 

Dorian gets a great intro in the Mage storyline because you get to know him and his personality with the Time travel plot, but with the Templars, you basically have to trust the word of someone who shows up and claims to be the one good Tevinter Mage in a sea of really bad ones who are about to kick your door down?

 

As with Cole, you get to know him during the Templar quest, whereas if you side with the Mages, you have this random, strange kid briefly show up to warn you, then Corypheus, his army and his pet "Archdemon" quickly take your attention for the next half an hour and you only really remember he exists when you get to Skyhold.

[Steelcan]

Getting the Mages was to hurt the Inquisition. He was sent by the Elder One to get the mages so the Inquisition couldn't have them, just like why he sends the Envy demon to get the Templars. That's why during the invasion of Haven Cole says, "He doesn't like that you took his mages." 

he's not exactly thrilled you took the templars either

[Steelcan]

Also Alexius's magic isn't as dangerous as its made out to be, in order for it to be a legitimate threat to the Inquisition you have to knowingly walk into a trap

[Hanako Ikezawa]

he's not exactly thrilled you took the templars either

True. I only brought up Cole's line because the discussion was involving the mages. 

[AshenEndymion]

Getting the Mages was to hurt the Inquisition. He was sent by the Elder One to get the mages so the Inquisition couldn't have them, just like why he sends the Envy demon to get the Templars. That's why during the invasion of Haven Cole says, "He doesn't like that you took his mages."

 
The Elder one doesn't like that you took his mages, yes.  He also doesn't like it if you take his Templars either.   But it's mentioned during Redcliffe, that the Elder One only has Alexius working for him because Alexius made the claim that he can use time magic to stop you from getting the Anchor to begin with(and he was about to get executed a year later for his failure).  Granted the Inquisitor can only know that it's not possible for time-travel to hurt the Inquisition by going after the mages, but if time-travel were truly a threat, the Inquisitor wouldn't have had a choice to begin with...
 
That there are no further time-affecting rifts(save for the one in the Western Approach), if one goes to Therinfall Redoubt, it's safe to assume that the Elder one executes Alexius for his failure.

[katerinafm]

It does look like the templar side was more thought out as to how it ties in, and I did enjoy the templar mission more than the mage one. I do pick mages for my canon playthrough though. Also a bit weird that the time magic that's supposed to be messing up the world is never brought up again after if you pick the templar mission. Weird. Cole showing up suddenly when you pick the mages doesn't make much sense and his intro after must be very confusing to anyone who doesn't already know about him from the books.

 

I think in the end what makes you pro mage or pro templar is the choice you make at the end of either mission, not just picking the mage or templar mission. When you pick the mages you can still choose to pretty much imprison them because you don't trust them which is pretty much a pro templar choice, and if you pick the templars you can still choose to disband their order entirely. I'm going to play a dalish mage that picks the templars but disbands them in my next playthrough, which still makes a lot of sense. I like that there are more reasons to pick either side this time around.

[Caddius]

The way I rationalized it with my Pro-Templar playthroughs is, 

"Time-traveling Tevinter Magister with an army of rebel mages at his command? We can't let that happen. But we're not strong enough to take them on, and letting me become the bait is rather dangerous since I'm the only one that can shut the rifts, much less the Breach. We need back-up. We need to shut down this Venatori nonsense. Wouldn't it be a great Feast Day present for the Lord Seeker to point out an actual Tevinter Magister infiltrating the south of Thedas?"

Then, after Champion of the Just.

"Well, that took longer than expected. Might as well seal the Breach, then go after the Venatori."

"Fantastic! The Breach is sealed! It's too late to start marching now. First thing in the morning, though, we're heading for-for-

CULLEN! DO YOU HAVE A PLAN?!"

My pro-mages figure that going after the Templars' aid is a waste of time because of Lucius, and that the subversion of the Mage Rebellion is a problem that needs to be handled NOW. The main difference is that they don't notice Ser Barris's disapproval and aura of greatness.

[errantknight]

I agree, OP. I wouldn't have before doing the templar storyline as I really enjoyed the mage one, but I'll prob be more likely to go templar from now on.

 

The way I looked at it, you get an invite from Fiona, but as far as you know, everything is basicallly cool in redcliff. You're (probably) taken care of the apostates and rogue templars. As far as you know, the rebel mages are ensconced in redcliffe and relatively safe for the time being. The templars, on the other hand, are acting very strangely. The Lord Seeker seems llike a nut job, they've abandoned Va; Royeaux and done violence to a revered mother... Now they're holed up in a decaying fort in the middle of nowhere. What's up with that?

 

As an inquisitor who planned to talk to both the mages and templars--and one who didn't now that wouldn't be possible--things seemed a lot more wrongish with the templars than the mages and like they might actuallly be dangerous. So it wasn't difficult to make the decision to go there at all. And the story was fantastic.

[justafan]

Also, just to add to the pro-templar side, you can meet Dorian before he comes to warn you by following Felix's note in Redcliffe, so his arrival at haven is not so out of the blue.  Cole on the other hand just will show up out of nowhere.

 

As for story wise though, I tend to side with the mages.  After all, who better to close a giant magical breach in the sky then the people with great magical power who have been forced to study magic their entire lives?  Also, I like Alexius as a character and find the time travel bit to be quite fun and a good warning as to what Corypheus aspires to.

[BubbleDncr]

The thing I don't like is that they let you do a bunch of the Mage's quest before committing to them, but not the other way around with the Templar. So not only do you know more of what you're getting yourself into with the mages, but they dangle Dorian in front of you, and make you feel like a jerk for leaving the mages to Alexius. And the war table encourages you to go to the mages first just because its free (at first), while the Templar cost power. 

 

So, in my mind, the only way it makes sense to do the Templar quest is if you just ignore Fiona's invitation completely just go straight to the Templar. 

 

Tho I do think Cole's "side with mages" introduction makes more sense than Dorian's "side with templar" introduction (assuming you never went to Redcliffe). Mainly cos Cole's just weird, no matter what. So he gets away with having a weird intro. 

[Hazegurl]

...in so many ways, is to go find the templars, and then make them disband and join the inquisition outright. Hold on, don't get mad, here's my logic:

 

My first playthrough I went to meet Fiona and did the whole Alexius time magic thing. One of the differences I noted is that the introduction of Cole vs Dorian makes WAAAAAAAY more sense and is far less confusing if you go with the Templars. Dorian was fine when I went with the mages, but Cole was just like, uhhhh what? Who? Huh?

 

Meanwhile Cole's intro in the Templar mission is perfect, and really eases you into his whole thing. And then Dorian's intro is perfectly fine too and well explained. Hey, I'm a good tevinter mage coming to warn you that all of your mages have been taken over by bad tevinter mages! Makes perfect sense! Then there's the kinda gamey *you wouldn't know about it ahead of time* choice that by choosing the templars, you've chosen the hard-counter, as it were, to the enemy you will now mainly fight. Whereas in choosing the mages, you choose to BE hard countered.

 

These and other smaller things just make it seem like the templar choice is what bioware initially thought out, and the mage choice was somehow later molded to be an alternative. 

 

Granted though....TIME TRAVEL IS AWESOME, so, there's that for the mage choice.

 

Thoughts?

I agree, You also get a much better story overall when you pick the Templars. You get Barris, Abernache with the Avvar Chief, Calpernia makes way more sense than Samson.

 

There is just no way I believe Cory actually thought Samson was a good choice to be the Mythal vessel.  lol!!!

 

I thought the time travel was poorly done and just sort of made me wish we were stuck in that future and had to find a way to regroup in that messed up world.

[Skropps]

As it is, conscripting the Templars makes most sense for the Inquisition's influence to be strengthened and spread. Think about it, recruiting an age-old Order that is devoted to stop magic misuse at the height of a Mage rebellion and a demon invasion. Surely many would be more respectful than if you were to bring in a bunch of misfit mages who have bad rep for exploding Chantries.

[Mystical Mirage]

The one time I did go after the Templars, I did so before going to Redcliffe.  I didn't want to lose too much approval from Dorian, and it just doesn't exactly make that much sense to ignore the dangerously unstable time magic.  Yes I know you could spin it so it makes sense that you could, but I didn't feel like it at the time. Also I never really saw it as outright siding with one side or another really.  I personally think that both sides have legitimate reasons and such.  I just think of it as "What do I want to help me close the breach?"  

 

As for the missions, I prefer In Hushed Whispers but the fallout from Champions of the Just (Like Sir Barris/Calpernia/Not fighting the red templars at haven because I'm terrible at that) is better, except for the whole killing off Fiona thing. Usually I alternate between playthroughs then after I first tried Champions.

[Hazegurl]

Another reason I can't stand siding with the Mages.  Having to pay for their mistakes instead of Fiona getting off her ass and doing it.

Spoiler

[Ryzaki]

Ugh Fiona.

 

I wish I could've tranquiled her.

[RobRam10]

I wish I could build a grand cathedral to venerate Alexius

[Notshauna]

I find it pretty hard to justify siding with the templars when they're leader basically tells you to shove it right off the bat and the mages invite you over. I mean you'd have to either be seriously prejudiced against mages or for some reason have a great deal of faith in the templars to go with Champions (I mean it could work with humans but there is just so much stacked against templars). 

[Mystical Mirage]

There is quite a few hints that something weird's going on with the Templars right away, or at least according to Cass.  You could say that if the Mages just decided to invite you that means nothing pressing is going on.  Or at least, that's what I tell myself to keep me from going crazy.  

 

Well, from going completely crazy I should say.

[Teshayel]

Going with the mages makes more sense - who better to provide the juice to seal a giant hole in the sky? That being said, it is worth playing through the Templar side at least once, just to experience Ser Barris' awesomeness Besides, the quest is pretty fun, and the story is well-written. I do miss my favourite mage in the game, though