47 réponses à ce sujet

[PresidentEvil]

For the love of all that is holy (or unholy, as the case may be) PLEASE do not make this argument.  I've been gaming for far longer than I should publicly admit, and I have seen this issue arise countless times.  The result is never good.

 

Random loot is a GOOD thing for RPGs.  Sure, everyone wants the best stuff.  Heck, sometimes I'd even settle for mediocre upgrades when suffering through horrible rng streak.  Thing is, you don't NEED the sword of a thousand truths to finish the game.

 

I get it, been there myself, and hell, I even curse about the RNG system myself.  Problem is, many of us love RPGs, and get alot of replay value out of the good ones because we carry along that idea of, "maybe today I will find that uber_rare_platemail +2!"  or maybe find something better that I didnt even know about!!

 

Rare items are powerful.  Who wouldn't want those rare items?  Problem is, once they are common, once they become assigned loot to a particular boss or chest, that loot becomes EXPECTED, even relied on by the players.  Now the mystery is gone.  Now the diversity is gone.  Despite all the other excellent tools that Bioware uses to enhance replayability (character classes, roles, decision making events, etc..), many people lose interest if the loot system doesn't hold some mystery or potential for great reward.

 

Complain enough and we end up with Mass Effect 2 or DA 2 loot options.  We end up with Bianca.  We end up with the best loot in the game sold by a merchant for nearly half of the total amount of money it is possible to collect in a legit playthrough.  I can only speak for myself, but I HATED that.  In fact, the loot system changes from ME 1 and DA:O have been my biggest gripes with BioWare.

 

Yes, it sucks when you've been farming that Titan X armor for a month, but we know it is in the game.  You know that when you finally DO get it, you will get a feeling of accomplishment, and you know that you will look like a badass in that Black and Red armor.  Is it that much better than Titan IX armor?  No. Is that the difference between you beating the game or not?  I hope not....lol.

 

I think that the DA:I loot system, while not perfect, has been one of the bright spots of the game for me, and a major step in the right direction when it comes to gaining back my support after the disappointments with ME and DA 2. 

[CENIC]

Yes, it sucks when you've been farming that Titan X armor for a month, but we know it is in the game. You know that when you finally DO get it, you will get a feeling of accomplishment, and you know that you will look like a badass in that Black and Red armor. Is it that much better than Titan IX armor? No. Is that the difference between you beating the game or not? I hope not....lol.

I don't consider having to play the game 15 times before randomly rolling the Sword of Truthiness or spending two hours every day for a week reloading in front of a chest until I find the Sword of Truthiness an "accomplishment."
I can spend hundreds of hours playing a game I enjoy. I can replay a game dozens of times from start to finish. But having to rely on RNG to acquire the gear I want? No. I switched from console to PC specifically so I could use console commands to spawn the gear I want directly to my inventory.

[Elhanan]

I killed a level 20 dragon last night (Storm Coast), and got a level 11 item of heavy armor. Seriously? What level 11 tank would survive a level 20 dragon?

Evidently, they didn't; hence the armor....

[Elhanan]

For me its a major step in the wrong direction. More random loot and "farming" is the world of MMO's, not Dragon Age. Just my opinion.

I gave up chest re-loads after NWN1; never had to do it here, or in SWTOR.

Folks can play as they wish; if they want to grind, camp, farm, and utilize over the top Talents, that is still an option. Personally, skip most of that and play the character; thus the game.

Yeah; never did find any Fade Touched Silverite, but still managed to play the game my way.

[PresidentEvil]

I don't consider having to play the game 15 times before randomly rolling the Sword of Truthiness or spending two hours every day for a week reloading in front of a chest until I find the Sword of Truthiness an "accomplishment."
I can spend hundreds of hours playing a game I enjoy. I can replay a game dozens of times from start to finish. But having to rely on RNG to acquire the gear I want? No. I switched from console to PC specifically so I could use console commands to spawn the gear I want directly to my inventory.

 

But that is exactly my point!  You don't have to get that item.  You don't need to keep trying to get it.  Getting the item is only an accomplishment if you make it one.

 

Those items are things you want.  And its good to want more out of a game.  However, once it is just handed to you it loses its value.

 

RPGs are about character building.  Kill stuff, get loot. Gain levels, increase stats.  Get items to increase stats so you can kill bigger things that drop better loot.  If all the best stuff is just handed to you, you may as well be playing an interactive novel.

 

This need for instant gratification is destroying RPGs.  

[CENIC]

RPGs are about character building. Kill stuff, get loot. Gain levels, increase stats. Get items to increase stats so you can kill bigger things that drop better loot. If all the best stuff is just handed to you, you may as well be playing an interactive novel.

You and I have different expectations from RPGs. I like to play dress-up in an interactive CYOA. To me, that is what a RPG should be, and many of them offer me that style of play.

[PresidentEvil]

You and I have different expectations from RPGs. I like to play dress-up in an interactive CYOA. To me, that is what a RPG should be, and many of them offer me that style of play.

 

I respect that.  I'm just an old man now.  My first RPGs were Telengard, Ultima II, Temple of Apshai, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, etc, etc, etc....  My opinion of what an RPG is, and should be, is based on the games that taught me it's definition.  Times have changed and games have changed.  It just makes an old man sad to see the genre of game he once held so dear, devolve into give me everything the way I want it, and I want it in 20 hours or less.

 

As you say, many games offer you the style of play you expect, unfortunately for me, "they just don't make 'em like they used to..."

[Paul E Dangerously]

"Farming" only works in games where everything respawns. Bosses in Dragon Age do not. This means that if you get crap loot from that dragon, you are SoL unless you reload and do the entire damned fight over again.

 

This is bad game design.

 

I'll again refer to Morrowind as the ideal. Great placed loot, sane random loot tables. Enough stability for people who like to be able to find things, and enough randomness to keep it interesting.

 

Don't even get me started how absurd it is that the only faction that has their own schematics in the game are the Orlesians.

[CENIC]

As you say, many games offer you the style of play you expect, unfortunately for me, "they just don't make 'em like they used to..."

My condolences.
If it makes you feel any better, in 20 years I'll be singing the same tune.

[PresidentEvil]

"Farming" only works in games where everything respawns. Bosses in Dragon Age do not. This means that if you get crap loot from that dragon, you are SoL unless you reload and do the entire damned fight over again.

 

This is bad game design.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you there.  Chests and other loot sources need to respawn.  Id prefer random locations as well, rather than knowing exactly where that chest will be.

 

As for the dragons, I think their loot tables are all set, I could be wrong though.  I know I got pissed when I killed one and got a frost resist belt or a grenade belt and some other crap, so I reloaded, killed it again, and got the same junk.  Anyone have success resetting a dragon's loot table?  Maybe I should have zoned out or something.

 

As for the other chests, I prefer the method of leaving an item in a chest if it is crap.  The chest will reset if you zone out and back in.  If you loot everything in the chest it will be unlootable forever though.

[CENIC]

"Farming" only works in games where everything respawns. Bosses in Dragon Age do not. This means that if you get crap loot from that dragon, you are SoL unless you reload and do the entire damned fight over again.

Ugh... Dragon's Dogma. And yet, fighting Ur-Daimon 188 times until I had all the armor I wanted (with the specific bonuses I wanted) was preferable to needing foreknowledge to not loot everything in DAI.

[Sidney]

Especially annoying in early game, cause generally if I manage to find something that's actually better than what I already have and for my class then there's a -ing level restriction on it instead. Yeah thanks, never mind that by the time I've advanced two levels to be allowed to use it I can probably make something twice as good anyway so might as well sell it right away. Thanks I guess? Next time just give me the money instead.

If the only drops in the game were gold and crafting materials I think I'd be happier than with the mostly frustrating stuff I get.

[Sidney]

"RPGs are about character building"   I agree, which is why it sucks Inquisition removed the option of building our character with stat points at each level up
 
"This need for instant gratification is destroying RPGs"   I agree, but IMO "farming" (as Diablo and any MMO) is not the answer. I'd rather have a more static loot system where I know that if I loot that chest guarded by those mobs, I'm going to get the X item I was supposed to. Having to reload 10 times, or having to "farm" to get the X item is dumb.

Wait, what? Knowing what is where seems more instant gratification. Farming surely is nothing like being instant.

I get the loot system sucks but not getting good stuff isn't a problem and you certainly do not need to farm anything. You craft good stuff in the game you don't loot it. You will easily encounter enough rocks and murderable animals to craft a eerything you want or need. If you count armor, helmet, weapon as one "item" I think on average out of 10 characters with 30 slots by end game I might be wearing only 6 or 7'looted items and the rest are crafted -- and if there were good helmet schematics I might not have that many. Don't get me wrong, I think that mechanism sucks but that is clearly not an instant gratification mechanism. It is pandering to people who think crafting adds depth.

[Ashevajak]

Yeah, I'll add my voice to those saying "plz reduce or eliminate random loot".  It's one of the worse ideas that seems to have caught on in RPGs in recent years.  I assume it's because it's less taxing on development time than handplaced items...but it always turns the looting aspect into something of a joke at best.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think we can find a balance between "Boss mob X drops the sword I want, so I -have- to do this quest" and "if you are lucky you will find some gear that fits you".

DA:O's way of selling the best items in stores was annoying, since it meant I had to farm money... but at least I knew I could get it and plan for it.

 

Also, if we have to have random loot, then please remove the level restrictions or make the loot dependent on my level.

[Sidney]

Yeah, I'll add my voice to those saying "plz reduce or eliminate random loot".  It's one of the worse ideas that seems to have caught on in RPGs in recent years.  I assume it's because it's less taxing on development time than handplaced items...but it always turns the looting aspect into something of a joke at best.

 

Yeah but looting in DAO was a joke as well - darkspawn dagger and worn leather boots? The best "loot" in the game was in Wonders of Thedas or some random Orzammar store or crafted for you in Denerim.  Really one of my longest term complaints about Bioware games is that I'd be better off raiding the stores than raiding the dungeons when it comes to getting good stuff. Killing a tranquil would net me a LOT more than killing any dragon in their games.

[ExelArtz]

I'm still looking for the helms of the inquisitor schematic, this thing is a myth

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm still looking for the helms of the inquisitor schematic, this thing is a myth

 

Never saw it, I only got the helmet itself.

[Elhanan]

I'm still looking for the helms of the inquisitor schematic, this thing is a myth

Gave it to Cassandra; the one purchased elsewhere was better, IMO.

[JumboWheat01]

*snip*

 

"Bring 8 Murloc Fins to Dockmaster Baren "

Oh gods, the old Barren's quests!  "Bring me four raptor heads."  "I've tried to do that, sir, but despite slaughtering whole groups of raptors, not a single one had a head!"

 

The nightmares... they return...

 

The problem with this system is that there are no promised schematics.  "Ooh, I found this sweet heavy armor schematic!  I'll have to come here and get it on my Warrior playthrough!"  DENIED.  Heck, on my Rogue playthrough, I got bloody Tier-3 Dual Blades before closing the breach!  He was a bloody murder machine because RNG threw this godly thing at me, rather than have it set in a chest in one of the tougher areas of the game.  Never got a tier-3 schematic so early in the game before.  Would've made those horrible bears less fear-worthy.