Well I never contested the army's importance, Inquisition needs armies. But leadership is a separate issue, it needs to be established, nobles's favors gathered along with information then the army can be maintained. A good army is result of good leadership and support. In the end they are all tired together, but Leliana and Josephine will do better than Cullen if they are elected to a leading position such as Divine.
Mainly because Cullen can't be divine by virtue of being male. 
That's the thing. Templars aren't needed to enforce the laws.
I mean it's true that the templars acted in such a role for centuries, but over that same period of time, have taken it too far as an institution and have accepted powers and rights that they ought not have. It's not just Meredith, Alrik, Kerras or Mettin, or even Lambert. The templar order came to embody an ideology on magic that it is bad because of some ancient magisters, and they had authority over mages by divine right. As far back as Origins, it was shown, at least in the templar codex that itself said that templars were recruited mostly from the religiously fervent and less from those of integrity or character as a way to keep them from questioning their orders.
Do this long enough, and widespread enough, it's only a matter of time until most of the order is filled with ideological zealots who feel their way is the only way, and will fight to the death to ensure it remains so.
The issue with the templars is that so many of them abandoned what it actually meant to be a templar when they followed Lambert and later Lucius into a war to slaughter the mages.
If there wasn't such a systematic level of idealogy, so many templars wouldn't have left the Chantry even before Inquisition.
We need people trained and ready to enforce laws, and we likely have to rebuild the templar order or the Seekers from scratch, which is what Cassandra will do, but the templars as they stand have lost all trust of the people in Inquisition, by abandoning the role of defender under Lambert and Lucius/Envy Demon, and this is reflected in Val Royeaux by the Orlesians we can eavesdrop on.
There is a reason that the templars, in pretty much all of the endings, do not return to the status quo. It's because they as an institution are no longer trusted to fulfill that role because of their abuse of it.
Someone is needed to enforce the laws. And any force that you put toghether to do so will always be Templars. They may be named something else entirely but the Templars were always recruited from the ranks of the faithful of Thedas.
They aren't a order that was corrupted over time. They are a representation of what people think of mages.
They never, on the whole, embodied any particular ideology beyond "magic is dangerous and people need to be kept safe from it." Some were fond of quoting scriptures, others were sympathetic, others just liked hurting mages. But the tale of the Black City was always a cautionary one, not a justification for continued punishment.
And Corypheus proves even that overblown tale involving gods and thwe dangers of magic has truth to it.
It is only natural that Templars are recruited from those who will follow orders. Every militar functions in that manner. But the notion most of them were just itching to slaugther all mages is untrue. The ones who were were the ones that refused to return to Val-Royeaux after Lucius summoned them and elected instead to stay in Redcliff.
If we really want to talk about "zealots willing to fight to the death to extablish their views of how the world should be" we can include the mages in that one.
Also, the Templars return to much of the status quo in two out of three endings. Cassandra and Vivienne's with the addendum of reforms under Cass or a leash under Vivienne but their role of guarding mages who are isolated from society is restored.
LOL i wish people would stop using Meredith as an example when talking about abusive templars , she was driven nuts by red lyrium otherwise she would have never acted as harshly as she did in DA 2.
Forgive them. It's actually really hard to find a rational argument against a police force, so they use charged words and any example of non-mage abuse to justify their stance. It's understandable.
Someone is needed to enforce the laws. And any force that you put toghether to do so will always be Templars. They may be named something else entirely but the Templars were always recruited from the ranks of the faithful of Thedas.
They aren't a order that was corrupted over time. They are a representation of what people think of mages.
They never, on the whole, embodied any particular ideology beyond "magic is dangerous and people need to be kept safe from it." Some were fond of quoting scriptures, others were sympathetic, others just liked hurting mages. But the tale of the Black City was always a cautionary one, not a justification for continued punishment.
And Corypheus proves even that overblown tale involving gods and thwe dangers of magic has truth to it.
It is only natural thet Templars are recruited from those who will follow order. Every militar functions in that way. But the notion most of them were just itching to slaugther all mages is untrue. The ones who were were the ones that refused to return to Val-Royeaux after Lucius summoned them and elected instead to stay in Redcliff.
If we really want to talk about "zealots willing to fight to the death to extablish their views of how the world should be" we can include the mages in that one.
Also, the Templars return to much of the status quo in two out of three endings. Cassandra and Vivienne's with the addendum of reforms under Cass or a leash under Vivienne but their role of guarding mages who are isolated from society is restored.
Another cautionary tale is the fact that magic must be used to become a grey warden and only a grey warden can truly end a blight. In a magical world, most problems stemming from magic can only fixed by magic. Denying it is pretending. There are many people among mages who want to live in harmony with rest of the world more than anyone. Claiming an outsider who knows nothing about burdens of magic can control them is not necessarily true. We never gave them a chance in the south. Apart from Seekers who will be capped upon if needed, the Tevinter system of mages which seems to be similar to college can be applied without Tevinter culture itself. Circle serving as prestigious academies where mages teach other to control dangers of magic.
Also Cass has hybrid epilogue, the bright hand which happens if you conscript mages and the college which happens if you ally with mages is far from "circles". The situation you talk about happens when you side with Templar, either disband or ally.
LOL i wish people would stop using Meredith as an example when talking about abusive templars , she was driven nuts by red lyrium otherwise she would have never acted as harshly as she did in DA 2.
According to act 1 which happens before red Lyrium, she was already turning the circle into prison and there were a lot tranquils in the gallows. These were not cause of red Lyrium but her paranoia. Not to mention Bartrand wait for a year before selling the idol, something from act2 and act 3 can be linked to red lyrium, nothing else before that. And I used her to show the support of none-mages who helped mages in Kirkwall.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
She's a little complicated before Act 3. Doesn't she voice her concern with the others about the "Tranquil solution"? Could be wrong. And she seems open enough to Champion as a mage at least.
She's got one of the best lines in the game.. I think even Gaider was fond of it. "If you know a better way, do not brand me a tyrant." That's not to say she had a good way herself.. just to illustrate just how bad the problem is. Magic will always be fucked up in this world. It's probably an accident.. it would have worked different without a veil. But here?
According to act 1 which happens before red Lyrium, she was already turning the circle into prison and there were a lot tranquils in the gallows. These were not cause of red Lyrium but her paranoia. Not to mention Bartrand wait for a year before selling the idol, something from act2 and act 3 can be linked to red lyrium, nothing else before that. And I used her to show the support of none-mages who helped mages in Kirkwall.
I know she was harsher than your typical templar but she was nowhere near as bad as she got after the Lyrium , she even rejected the tranquil solution plan from Ser Alrik which tells me that she was NOT all about " destroy the mages!!" but just a bit over cautious , given what happened to her sister one could hardly blame her for being that way , from the chat my Hawke had with her she seemed to genuinely care.
She's a little complicated before Act 3. Doesn't she voice her concern with the others about the "Tranquil solution"? Could be wrong. And she seems open enough to Champion as a mage at least.
She's got one of the best lines in the game.. I think even Gaider was fond of it. "If you know a better way, do not brand me a tyrant." That's not to say she had a good way herself.. just to illustrate just how bad the problem is. Magic will always be fucked up in this world. It's probably an accident.. it would have worked different without a veil. But here?
She flat out rejected the tranquil solution in fact.
I'm not even debating the tranquil solution, only that people helped the mages against the harshness, before or after red lyrium. (if you take pro-mage decisions yourself).
Honestly it was Andres not Meredith who pushed the final time.
That's all there is to it.
Ser Karras was making preparations for rite of annulment already, before Anders. This was the first time in history of Thedas that a circle was annulled because of actions of an apostate who had nothing to do with Kirkwall circle. Would we mass murder the Templar order because a rogue Templar who is no longer part of order did something? It was a warning for all mages across Thedas that this can happen to them too and nothing is stopping them from getting slaughtered for something they had zero part in and gave a major reason to rebel.
So honestly, it wasn't. The crime was Anders' alone and he was sitting right there, glowing and declaring war on Templar order but Meredith ignored him and moved to what she desired most, "justified" genocide.
I'm not even debating the tranquil solution, only that people helped the mages against the harshness, before or after red lyrium. (if you take pro-mage decisions yourself).
Considering the amount of blood mages in Kirkwall i believe most templars would have been harsh in their treatment of them. Both sides were at fault for the hellhole that city was.
Ser Karras was making preparations for rite of annulment
You mean the official chantry reaction that has to be sactationed by the sweet old lady Anders blew up?
No she sent directly to Val royeax. Remember what Leliana told during act 3 and Sebestian's personal quest? An exalted march was kept at hand so what do you think they response would have been to Meredith's request? If anything Anders prevented her from justifying it and sweeping it under rug in name of blood magic. Now everyone knows it was genocide, plain and simple.
"Change is coming to the world. Many fear change and will fight it with every fiber of their being. But sometimes change is what they need most. Sometimes change is what sets them free."
I just wish that this change was more 'bloody revolution' and less 'kumbaya' if only to fit in with the tone of the universe and this prophecy.
Well, if anything else, hardened Leliana is the very definition of bloody revolution.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Well, if anything else, hardened Leliana is the very definition of bloody revolution.
I still don't like her ending. And I don't think she's meant for the position. I've said many times before that it's no coincidence that Giselle wants Cassandra to be Divine.
I still don't like her ending. And I don't think she's meant for the position. I've said many times before that it's no coincidence that Giselle wants Cassandra to be Divine.
My opinion of her dropped when she essentially became homophobic with her comments towards Dorian. Also, I laughed out loud when she tried to get me to convince me to make Cassandra, my romance, to become divine, a position the cleric outright said would mean that Cass would never return to the Inquisition. Lolnope, plus Leliana is my ideal candidate.
Also, face it, if Bioware really didn't want mage freedom, why didn't they add some negative parts to the free mages ending? Like it or not, the devs believe that mages should get more freedom. Explain why all endings give mages more freedom and weaken the templars? Like it or not, mages get their freedom and acceptance.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
someone who takes an inch and turns it into a mile
She was questioning his influence because he was Tevinter...
My opinion of her dropped when she essentially became homophobic with her comments towards Dorian. Also, I laughed out loud when she tried to get me to convince me to make Cassandra, my romance, to become divine, a position the cleric outright said would mean that Cass would never return to the Inquisition. Lolnope, plus Leliana is my ideal candidate.
Also, face it, if Bioware really didn't want mage freedom, why didn't they add some negative parts to the free mages ending? Like it or not, the devs believe that mages should get more freedom. Explain why all endings give mages more freedom and weaken the templars? Like it or not, mages get their freedom and acceptance.
They want people to revel in their victory, only to take it away in the next DLC 
The option of making Leliana Divine, reeks of fan service to me
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Could be that they simply want to promote mage freedom... or this is all setting the stage for something even more drastic, with Solas. Where some scenarios fit better for their purposes.
My opinion of her dropped when she essentially became homophobic with her comments towards Dorian. Also, I laughed out loud when she tried to get me to convince me to make Cassandra, my romance, to become divine, a position the cleric outright said would mean that Cass would never return to the Inquisition. Lolnope, plus Leliana is my ideal candidate.
Also, face it, if Bioware really didn't want mage freedom, why didn't they add some negative parts to the free mages ending? Like it or not, the devs believe that mages should get more freedom. Explain why all endings give mages more freedom and weaken the templars? Like it or not, mages get their freedom and acceptance.
She was suspicious of him because he's a Tevinter mage, his sexuality never comes into it, don't put words in her mouth.
As for the endings, not really. Cassandra reforms the Circle and Templars so that's no real change, Vivienne gives more rights, but she doesn't let them loose. The only one that really does that is Leliana's and its been done to death why her epilogue is pants on head moronic
They want people to revel in their victory, only to take it away in the next DLC
Or they make Divine Leliana so much better in every way that the other options just seem to be plain wrong. Unhardened Leliana manages to get people to agree with her radical reforms while Cass needs the Inquisitor's help to negotiate for her reforms and even then has to make concessions. I also find it funny how nobody brings up the fact that Cass uses the Seekers to violently put down her opponents if she hates the Inquisitor.
Or they make Divine Leliana so much better in every way that the other options just seem to be plain wrong. Unhardened Leliana manages to get people to agree with her radical reforms while Cass needs the Inquisitor's help to negotiate for her reforms and even then has to make concessions. I also find it funny how nobody brings up the fact that Cass uses the Seekers to violently put down her opponents if she hates the Inquisitor.
enjoy it while it lasts then, I doubt its going to be sticking around. The DA team does so love their retcons
Yes because Cassandra understands that reform needs to be negotiated and gradual. Leliana would rather plunge everything and everyone in blind to what she thinks is right.
Or they make Divine Leliana so much better in every way that the other options just seem to be plain wrong. Unhardened Leliana manages to get people to agree with her radical reforms while Cass needs the Inquisitor's help to negotiate for her reforms and even then has to make concessions. I also find it funny how nobody brings up the fact that Cass uses the Seekers to violently put down her opponents if she hates the Inquisitor.
Well I didn't even knew that.
But the point is that its atleast believable. Cass having to put down opponents because they didn't like her reforms is far more realistic than a world where everyone suddenly agrees with Leliana.
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