Cassandra is pretty much the status quo as it was originally envisioned?
Ironically yes. That's why I prefer Leliana since the system was originally like that with mages going to the circles willingly and the templars protecting them which eventually devolved to the circles being more like glorified prisions than places where mages could study in peace. I sincerely believe allowing the Chantry to control the circles is just asking for the return to the circles like they used to be.
Ironically yes. That's why I prefer Leliana since the system was originally like that with mages going to the circles willingly and the templars protecting them which eventually devolved to the circles being more like glorified prisions than places where mages could study in peace. I sincerely believe allowing the Chantry to control the circles is just asking for the return to the circles like they used to be.
and letting mages rule themselves is just asking for a new Tevinter
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Ironically yes. That's why I prefer Leliana since the system was originally like that with mages going to the circles willingly and the templars protecting them which eventually devolved to the circles being more like glorified prisions than places where mages could study in peace. I sincerely believe allowing the Chantry to control the circles is just asking for the return to the circles like they used to be.
You've got your lore twisted. Mages were always part of the Chantry. They asked for Circles so they wouldn't be stuck on Brazier lighting duty for their whole lives.
Ironically yes. That's why I prefer Leliana since the system was originally like that with mages going to the circles willingly and the templars protecting them which eventually devolved to the circles being more like glorified prisions than places where mages could study in peace. I sincerely believe allowing the Chantry to control the circles is just asking for the return to the circles like they used to be.
Agree, like you I go for leliana because even though it's risky at least it breaks what looks like a vicious circle to me.
Not rly she restarts it where it started on mages being free then causing massive disaster and then society locking them up because they are too dangerous.It is pretty much only matter of time when mage/s will cause massive disaster as they did that even when they were in circles and peoples decide they are way too dangerous.
Even dorian points where her solution will lead and he is tevinter mage.
and letting mages rule themselves is just asking for a new Tevinter
Leliana tone: "pure speculation". We can take the system without the culture from Tevinter aka mages controlling mages. There are many mages who want to live in harmony with others more than anyone else. We have never given them the chance. Thinking people who know nothing about burdens of magic can control mages better than mages themselves is speculation and a wrong one in my opinion. Mages will cage/punish the bad eggs as good as anyone. Tevinter systems seems to be working quite fine, its the culture that the south has problems with, such as only mages being magisters and slavery.
Seeing that you cited Giselle "we teach that pride corrupts and it doesn't affect only mages". Mages are no more susceptible to corruption. Disasters can happen with anyone in control, be it Templars or mages.
LOL i wish people would stop using Meredith as an example when talking about abusive templars , she was driven nuts by red lyrium otherwise she would have never acted as harshly as she did in DA 2.
Look at the state of the Gallows and the Order from even Act 1. Meredith was always a weak, and mentally compromised leader.
and letting mages rule themselves is just asking for a new Tevinter
Tevinter's state is more a product of its culture and the tenets it was founded on than it is about mages themselves. There's no basis for this claim other than, "Tevinter = free mages, so free mages = Tevinter." And I don't think I need to point out how inane that logic is.
This is essentially just fear mongering, and nothing in Leliana's endings even remotely implies this.
You've got your lore twisted. Mages were always part of the Chantry. They asked for Circles so they wouldn't be stuck on Brazier lighting duty for their whole lives.
Where did I imply otherwise? I said that mages went willingly to the Circles so they could practice magic in peace with the Templars protecting them. They eventually devolved into the Circles as we know them with the Templars being jailers and the Circles being glorified prisons. Cass intends to reform the Circles to how they used to be which given how she isn't going to live forever and the general corruption of the Chantry, her reforms will likely be undone and the Circles will go back to how they used to be. At least Leliana offers are more radical and likely permanent solution. I doubt letting the Chantry control the circles will lead anywhere good.
Leliana tone: "pure speculation". We can take the system without the culture from Tevinter aka mages controlling mages. There are many mages who want to live in harmony with others more than anyone else. We have never given them the chance. Thinking people who know nothing about burdens of magic can control mages better than mages themselves is speculation and a wrong one in my opinion. Mages will cage/punish the bad eggs as good as anyone. Tevinter systems seems to be working quite fine, its the culture that the south has problems with, such as only mages being magisters and slavery.
Seeing that you cited Giselle "we teach that pride corrupts and it doesn't affect only mages". Mages are no more susceptible to corruption. Disasters can happen with anyone in control, be it Templars or mages.
Not rly every system with mages free or in control ends poorly be it dalish that most clans had to deal with disasters caused by mages (and they have 2 mages on clan) or tevinter that is most vicious society in the setting.Pretty much orsino and uldred show how mages can handle own corruption...
And no normal peoples can't become an abomnation.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Tevinter's state is more a product of its culture and the tenets it was founded on than it is about mages themselves. There's no basis for this claim other than, "Tevinter = free mages, so free mages = Tevinter." And I don't think I need to point out how inane that logic is.
This is essentially just fear mongering, and nothing in Leliana's endings even remotely implies this.
Sorry Steel, I've argued this point before. The nobility are all and have always been mages. That's why Tevinter is the way it is.
Look at the state of the Gallows and the Order from even Act 1. Meredith was always a weak, and mentally compromised leader.
Don't forget how Meredith made a mage tranquil simply for having a Templar pass a love note, or how if the Starkhaven mages are returned to her, she randomly executes or makes them tranquil at random. She was always an oppressive knight-commander, the red lyrium just made her worse than ever.
I was comparing that claim to his claim that "chantry oversight = return to mage abuse"
sorry if I didn't make that clear
BTW I have an on-topic question. Do you have to be a mage to see the bright hand epilogue?
Where did I imply otherwise? I said that mages went willingly to the Circles so they could practice magic in peace with the Templars protecting them. They eventually devolved into the Circles as we know them with the Templars being jailers and the Circles being glorified prisons. Cass intends to reform the Circles to how they used to be which given how she isn't going to live forever and the general corruption of the Chantry, her reforms will likely be undone and the Circles will go back to how they used to be. At least Leliana offers are more radical and likely permanent solution. I doubt letting the Chantry control the circles will lead anywhere good.
or as soon as she dies/is assassinated the reforms will be undone by those she either brutally repressed with her thought crime antics, or even better those she just talked to.
Either way I don't see them being permanent.
And the epilogues don't go far enough into the future to know how permanent they are
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
BTW I have an on-topic question. Do you have to be a mage to see the bright hand epilogue?
Still inconclusive. Ogillardetta is working on it with a mundie.
Still inconclusive. Ogillardetta is working on it with a mundie.
Not rly every system with mages free or in control ends poorly be it dalish that most clans had to deal with disasters caused by mages (and they have 2 mages on clan) or tevinter that is most vicious society in the setting.Pretty much orsino and uldred show how mages can handle own corruption...
And no normal peoples can't become an abomnation.
Sorry Steel, I've argued this point before. The nobility are all and have always been mages. That's why Tevinter is the way it is.
And all mages are the same. Just like all Templars are irrational, paranoid zealots, right? It's easy for some of you to defend Templars despite corruption in their ranks, yet mages are conveniently all the same, and any independent mage system will inevitably end up like Tevinter because mages are all inherently power-hungry tyrants that want to dominate everyone. This argument is a logical fallacy because it's based on the presumption that mages as a group can by defined by their mage status, which is completely false as mages are humans, not some exclusive and isolated subgroup. Thus unless your suggestion is that all people are the same, period, then this argument holds no weight outside of fan-theory and radical speculation.
Less hypocrisy, less double standards.
Name a single mage that became an abomination in DA:I.
Good move considering that devs didn't even bother to touch that topic in dai they completly ignored as that but i can name plenty in whole series.
And all mages are the same. Just like all Templars are irrational, paranoid zealots, right? It's easy for some of you to defend Templars despite corruption in their ranks, yet mages are conveniently all the same, and any independent mage system will inevitably end up like Tevinter because mages are all inherently power-hungry tyrants that want to dominate everyone. This argument is a logical fallacy because it's based on the presumption that mages as a group can by defined by their mage status, which is completely false as mages are humans, not some exclusive and isolated subgroup. Thus unless your suggestion is that all people are the same, period, then this argument holds no weight outside of fan-theory and radical speculation.
Less hypocrisy, less double standards.
as I said above, I was comparing "chantry oversight will inevitably result in mage abuse" to "free mages will result in a new Tevinter"
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
My theory is if the Inquisitor is a mage, the mages rename it to bright hand to make the mage Inquisitor a symbol to all. Because if you ally with the mages, Cassandra allows the college to happen and if you conscript the mages, it doesn't make sense for them to go back to the old circle system. So they create bright hand as something in middle of college and circle.
The Bright Hand is an autonomous Circle within the Chantry hierarchy. As Cassandra said 'help to govern themselves'. Mages are really sheltered if you haven't figured it out yet. The Bright Hand is that vital middle step to acceptance that Leliana detrimentally ignores.
Good move considering that devs didn't even bother to touch that topic in dai they completly ignored as that but i can name plenty in whole series.
Yes they confirmed that blood mages and abominations are rarer than we think, Kirkwall was an exception. You can actually have a conversation about it in the game if you ally with the mages, witch says how good the mages have controlled themselves with the breach on the sky.
Name a single mage that became an abomination in DA:I.
Fiona should play that card tbh
try and worm her way out of bad decision making on par with Robb Stark
Yes they confirmed that blood mages and abominations are rarer than we think, Kirkwall was an exception. You can actually have a conversation about it in the game if you ally with the mages, with says how good the mages have controlled themselves with the breach on the sky.
"So instead of turning to Blood Magic and Demon Possession, we instead went to Tevinter"
I really don't think that's significantly better
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