I do enjoy asking Vivienne if she's a danger and should you post guards outside her door when she starts going on about how the rebel mages are going to sprout into abominations at any moment because of the Breach.
Hah! that was perfect. In case you ally with the mages you can slap the fact that mages were quite in control despite the breach to her face.
As per lore, abominations are rare.
Rare, yes. But that too is relative.
So you realized this logic behind this was inherently faulty, but you just didn't care?
The logic behind is that the mages themselves would be forced to manage their own population through Tranquillity which is always positive.
Prioritizing the mages most likely to become Abominations and thus a threat to my own people is what I would do.
The logic behind is that the mages themselves would be forced to manage their own population through Tranquillity which is always positive.
No it isn't.
Prioritizing the mages most likely to become Abominations and thus a threat to my own people is what I would do.
Is there any evidence to suggest that isn't already what happens?
I have never seen this records, do you have a link to them or you are only saying something that you heard?According to Leliana's records they are all brainwashed and submitted into Venatori. Fear is a very strong motivator aka "Attack haven or you and every single member of your family will go through a slow and agonizing process of death". I would rather be utterly mind controlled and put in that situation but that's me.
I have never seen this records, do you have a link to them or you are only saying something that you heard?
Its practically in every record and report. Like the sentence begins like this ". The Venatori, bolstered by brainwashed rebel mages ......." In war table missions, your journal etc... Its mentioned almost everywhere that is related to this issue
sorry but its not, the only time the rebel mages are mentioned is in a banter between Bull and Dorian, never saw anything about brainwashed rebel mages.Its practically in every record and report. Like the sentence begins like this ". The Venatori, bolstered by brainwashed rebel mages ......." In war table missions, your journal etc... Its mentioned almost everywhere that is related to this issue
sorry but its not, the only time the rebel mages are mentioned is in a banter between Bull and Dorian, never saw anything about brainwashed rebel mages.
If you can provide a source of the rebel mages being brainwashed, I will concede
Are you even listening? Read war table missions and your journals. Are you kidding me people? I have searched for material as "proof" for you today 4 times. Pay attention to the game when playing.
Be right back with your "proof".
sorry but its not, the only time the rebel mages are mentioned is in a banter between Bull and Dorian, never saw anything about brainwashed rebel mages.
If you can provide a source of the rebel mages being brainwashed, I will concede
Go to Emprise Du Leon. There is a letter that changes based on who the Inquisition sides with.
If you side with the templars, it talks about those "smug" venatori mocking the red templars who are forced into such small numbers because so many templars left Therinfall Redoubt. Dialogue at Therinfall Redoubt also points out that the templars who were there were being slowly addicted to red lyrium but the Inquisitor's presence forced them to accelerate their plans and start purging the doubters.
If you side with the mages, that same letter will now say that the venatori couldn't brainwash enough people to make a difference in their numbers and are now the minority, and the red templar writing the letter is mocking the venatori's predicament.
It's an interesting bit of reading I found on my way to the quarry.
There is no need to be hostile, I played the game, read a the war tables missions and the jornais, and I dont remember reading anything about brainwashed mages.Are you even listening? Read war table missions and your journals. Are you kidding me people? I have searched for material as "proof" for you today 4 times. Pay attention to the game when playing.
Be right back with your "proof".
This one I remember, but it does not say anything about brainwashed rebel magesGo to Emprise Du Leon. There is a letter that changes based on who the Inquisition sides with.
If you side with the templars, it talks about those "smug" venatori mocking the red templars who are forced into such small numbers because so many templars left Therinfall Redoubt. Dialogue at Therinfall Redoubt also points out that the templars who were there were being slowly addicted to red lyrium but the Inquisitor's presence forced them to accelerate their plans and start purging the doubters.
If you side with the mages, that same letter will now say that the venatori couldn't brainwash enough people to make a difference in their numbers and are now the minority, and the red templar writing the letter is mocking the venatori's predicament.
It's an interesting bit of reading I found on my way to the quarry.
This one I remember, but it does not say anything about brainwashed rebel mages
There's also something in the Hissing Wastes that also changes based on whether or not you're siding with mages or templars, since it's the Venatori acting in that area.
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that it's said that all the mages who disagreed or refused to follow Tevinter were killed by Alexius, if they didn't manage to escape.
I also think there's some dialogue if you side with the templars you can eavesdrop on in Redcliff. Need to go through that again though to confirm.
I think it comes down to one simple fact. The rank and file of mages and templars both got the shaft from their leaders. One had them join Tevinter, when 2/3 we talk to in Redcliff hate it, but they get killed if they don't escape or don't agree to serve, and the other side had its leader willingly allow an Envy Demon to take command and slowly corrupted the templars with Red Lyrium while he went about trying to destroy the entire Seeker order.
There is no need to be hostile, I played the game, read a the war tables missions and the jornais, and I dont remember reading anything about brainwashed mages.
If you dont want to link, you could at least say the codex/mission about it
It appears I don't have a savegame to be able to access that certain war table mission but thankfully its available on p. 39 of the official guide. Quote:"If the Inquisitor chooses to meet with the templars instead of the mages, then Fiona and her compatriots would be brainwashed by the Venatori and used in the attack on Haven, in which the Inquisitor is forced to kill her."
I dont remember the codex in the hissing waste, but I remember a banter between Bull and Dorian saying it.There's also something in the Hissing Wastes that also changes based on whether or not you're siding with mages or templars, since it's the Venatori acting in that area.
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that it's said that all the mages who disagreed or refused to follow Tevinter were killed by Alexius, if they didn't manage to escape.
I also think there's some dialogue if you side with the templars you can eavesdrop on in Redcliff. Need to go through that again though to confirm.
I think it comes down to one simple fact. The rank and file of mages and templars both got the shaft from their leaders. One had them join Tevinter, when 2/3 we talk to in Redcliff hate it, but they get killed if they don't escape or don't agree to serve, and the other side had its leader willingly allow an Envy Demon to take command and slowly corrupted the templars with Red Lyrium while he went about trying to destroy the entire Seeker order.
Yeah I know about the guide, but this guide is full of errors, I wouldnt be surprised if this information is more the author interpretation than actual fact.It appears I don't have a savegame to be able to access that certain war table mission but thankfully its available on p. 39 of the official guide. Quote:"If the Inquisitor chooses to meet with the templars instead of the mages, then Fiona and her compatriots would be brainwashed by the Venatori and used in the attack on Haven, in which the Inquisitor is forced to kill her."
I find it funny how the Templars get a free pass for the fact that their leaders nearly screwed them yet the mages are all condemned for Fiona's actions. I bet if the situation was changed so that the Templars willingly allied with the Red Templars while the envy demon posed as Fiona and forced the mages to serve the venatori, people would still condemn the mages while giving the templars a free pass.
I dont remember the codex in the hissing waste, but I remember a banter between Bull and Dorian saying it.
If the Venatori plans was to brainwash the mages, why Fiona wasnt brainwashed in the future?
She served her purpose and was now had red lyrium growing out of her to be mined for later use?
I dont remember the codex in the hissing waste, but I remember a banter between Bull and Dorian saying it.
If the Venatori plans was to brainwash the mages, why Fiona wasnt brainwashed in the future?
In the bad future, Corypheus has the venatori and the red templars so he doesn't need to bolster his forces with brainwashed mages as he already has red templars. Thus, the rebel mages are slaves or red lyrium farms.
Yeah I know about the guide, but this guide is full of errors, I wouldnt be surprised if this information is more the author interpretation than actual fact.
But I will concede that the rebel mages could have been brainwashed, but in my interpretation (until I find some proof), is that Fiona attacked he Inquisition willingly.
I will try to find it but then again there is also wiki. Its both stated on Fiona's page and the quest page which explains what happens if you side with each side and mages get brainwashed by Venatori.
But the mages knew Tevinter, they should have deposed Fiona in the moment she said her stupid plan.I find it funny how the Templars get a free pass for the fact that their leaders nearly screwed them yet the mages are all condemned for Fiona's actions. I bet if the situation was changed so that the Templars willingly allied with the Red Templars while the envy demon posed as Fiona and forced the mages to serve the venatori, people would still condemn the mages while giving the templars a free pass.
But the mages knew Tevinter, they should have deposed Fiona in the moment she said her stupid plan.
Or they were trapped in town thanks to that rift with demons pouring out of it just outside the gates. And by the time its dealt with the mages who would otherwise object are now trapped by Tevinter soldiers.
I think the Redcliff soldier and rebel mages could defend the town against the demons and the Venatori, look how easily Leliana and her agents took the castle when they infiltrated.Or they were trapped in town thanks to that rift with demons pouring out of it just outside the gates. And by the time its dealt with the mages who would otherwise object are now trapped by Tevinter soldiers.
Or they were trapped in town thanks to that rift with demons pouring out of it just outside the gates. And by the time its dealt with the mages who would otherwise object are now trapped by Tevinter soldiers.
The rift isn't there the entire time, actually- it only goes in there once the Inquisitor goes to Orlais. Which is an ambiguous span of time ranging from weeks to months after the Conclave explosion, nearly all of which was spent under Tevinter 'protection.'
Nor or there terribly many Tevinter soldiers about in Redcliffe. There are some Venatori agents, but the town is hardly occupied as such.
Then there's the matter of simply walking out with the Inquisitor if/when he does... like a Tranquil is perfectly able to do.
And that's not even touching on the fact that Lake Calenhad is, well, a lake, and there are a number of boats at the docks of Redcliffe village.
The mages might have had obstacles to leaving, but they were hardly insurmountable. The real question isn't if they could, but how many even tried?
But everyone in Redcliff thinks they will attacked by a huge Templar horde. Alexius has them all fooled even people of redcliff.
> Venatori spies disguised as exhausted refugees arrive with news of massing Templar army
> There has been an attack on Redcliff already, by the Templars. People of Redcliff and mages alike died defending
> if you pay attention the guards of Redcliff are training for another attack Templar attack
So the mages don't depose Fiona because they believe she saved them from Templar attack. The mages and people in redcliff don't have have our hindsight, they are pretty much convinced Templars are attacking.
I think the Redcliff soldier and rebel mages could defend the town against the demons and the Venatori, look how easily Leliana and her agents took the castle when they infiltrated.
A plan that relied on the Inquisitor keeping Alexius and his soldiers attention by willingly walking into a trap.
But everyone in Redcliff thinks they will attacked by a huge Templar horde. Alexius has them all fooled even people of redcliff.
> Venatori spies disguised as exhausted refugees arrive with news of massing Templar army
> There has been an attack on Redcliff already, by the Templars. People of Redcliff and mages alike died defending
> if you pay attention the guards of Redcliff are training for another attack Templar attack
So the mages don't depose Fiona because they believe she saved them from Templar attack. The mages and people in redcliff don't have have our hindsight, they are pretty much convinced Templars are attacking.
Them falling for Alexius's foolery is a problem, not a mitigation. Especially when their response to the prospect of said attackers (an experienced, numerically superior anti-magical force) is to throw their lot in with Venatori (inexperienced, numerically inferior, magical force with no prospects of reinforcement) at the expense of their support of the Arl of Redcliffe and the Throne of Ferelden (numerically superior, non-magical, unmatchable reinforcements, and now angrily marching against the mages). Not only were they wrong, but they made the wrong decision on the grounds of what they thought was right.
Typically the response to 'they were dupes' is not 'well, in their defense they were duped.'
Whatever they thought or how reasonable it may have seemed, they were faced with a choice of allying with a tevinter occupying redcliffe and kicking out inhabitants or risk trying to escape and they chose the Tevinter mage, with all the beliefs they would have had about tevinter mages. The templars saw their leader hit a revered mother and he ten pulled them out of action to an old fortress without explanation. Some of their people were no doubt acting strangely and the red lyrium might have seemed suspect, but to me the mages were in a better position to know they should flee.
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