951 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

Well she never even brings up the treatment of the tranquil iirc.

 

There's a few reasons for that I suppose, not being aware of it, unlikely given how many there were and how they were removed.  Its not easy to convince people that hundreds of non-combatants would just up and leave in the middle of a war zone.  Complicit in it, also unlikely, she may be a horrendous leader, but I don't see her signing up for the slaughter of innocent people.

 

I don't pretend to have an answer, but I don't think she even brings it up, which is suspicious at least

 

Suspicious, certainly, but not guaranteed that she did know about it.

 

For all we know, she was feeling guilty at allying with Tevinter once the templar attack she was expecting never happened and was now indentured and Alexius had seized power and had his agents in place. Could have been the shock of seeing the Inquisitor show up unexpectedly and Alexius butting in during that meeting and pretty much seizing control of the dialogue then being called to help with Felix. 

 

It could be any number of things. The impression I get in-game is that she's being really hard on herself, and I'm judging this almost strictly by her body language and how she composes herself, compared to the proud and standing tall Fiona we meet in Val Royeaux. 

 

It's also not much to go on, I know, but there is a pretty good possibility she doesn't know, but there is also a possibility that she may as well. 

[Steelcan]

I personally think she's smart enough to put two and two together to get in the ballpark of four

[errantknight]

I personally think she's smart enough to put two and two together to get in the ballpark of four

I don't think the mages thought enough about the tranquil to have done any adding, which actually surprised the heck out of me.

[dragonflight288]

I personally think she's smart enough to put two and two together to get in the ballpark of four

 

Unless she just didn't pay attention and had the tranquil's care taken care of by delegation. 

 

Minaeve in the Inquisition takes care of the Tranquil, and she says they were ignored and abused both by mages and templars who thought less of them than they did others. 

 

Also a possibility. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Here's what I'm thinking: After allying with the Venatori, the Venatori overthrew Teagan. This would no doubt cause hostility against mages for what people believe they did. Thus, if the mages tried to leave, they would likely be attacked by peasants or higher authorities. Thus, the Venatori skillfully made it so that they were the only ones the mages could be with as they made so that even one of their biggest supporters would wind up hating them. The mages thus can't leave lest they face punishment for the Venatori's actions. In fact, once the Venatori give up the mages, the ruler of Ferelden exiles the mages so if Fiona decided to leave, they would face exile or other punishment so they had no other choice but to remain with the Venatori.

[MisterJB]

I don't really get how this argument helps. No matter what Fiona thinks is going to happen, she still makes the decision that personal survival  justifies alllying with slavers/blood mages/enemies of the state and sacrificing the wellbeing of the citizens of Redcliffe.

 

"The tree of freedom must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

 

Their freedom, your blood."

 

-Dean_the_Young
 

[errantknight]

Here's what I'm thinking: After allying with the Venatori, the Venatori overthrew Teagan. This would no doubt cause hostility against mages for what people believe they did. Thus, if the mages tried to leave, they would likely be attacked by peasants or higher authorities. Thus, the Venatori skillfully made it so that they were the only ones the mages could be with as they made so that even one of their biggest supporters would wind up hating them. The mages thus can't leave lest they face punishment for the Venatori's actions. In fact, once the Venatori give up the mages, the ruler of Ferelden exiles the mages so if Fiona decided to leave, they would face exile or other punishment so they had no other choice but to remain with the Venatori.

They still had a choice. They could still have fled or fought the Venatori. Not a good choice, but one that you'd think some would see as preferable to becoming de facto slavers and blood mages themselves. We may find out later that some did. Not everyone sees living no matter what the cost as the best option.

[Addai]

Well she never even brings up the treatment of the tranquil iirc.
 
There's a few reasons for that I suppose, not being aware of it, unlikely given how many there were and how they were removed.

The codex for Ocularum says that most Tranquil were left behind in the Circles and there were only a few with the rebels. They can't haul along a bunch of people who can't defend themselves.

[Lulupab]

Alexius tells you Teagan was not "kicked out", he left on his own. Could be true, Alexius took rule and Teagan left on his own to go to Denerim.

[Steelcan]

The codex for Ocularum says that most Tranquil were left behind in the Circles and there were only a few with the rebels. They can't haul along a bunch of people who can't defend themselves.

damn better leave the mage kids behind as well, and the elderly

[Addai]

damn better leave the mage kids behind as well, and the elderly

I'm citing the codex. You're just throwing out the tired old hater arguments.

It is instructive that these discussions always go back to Fiona's mistakes while templar leaders allying with Corypheus knowingly is... what? The mages made them do it?

[Steelcan]

I'm citing the codex. You're just throwing out the tired old hater arguments.

It is instructive that these discussions always go back to Fiona's mistakes while templar leaders allying with Corypheus knowingly is... what? The mages made them do it?

Saying "Fiona probably knew what happened to the Tranquil" isn't really a "hater argument"

 

the Templar Leaders were also morons, good thing we can kill/judge them.  Fiona gets off scot free though

[Lulupab]

Saying "Fiona probably knew what happened to the Tranquil" isn't really a "hater argument"

 

the Templar Leaders were also morons, good thing we can kill/judge them.  Fiona gets off scot free though

 

Its implied she and rest of people of Redcliff were fooled and the person who fooled gets to be judged, Alexius.

 

Commander Denam whom we judge knew exactly what red lyrium was and gave it to knights anyhow.

[Addai]

Saying "Fiona probably knew what happened to the Tranquil" isn't really a "hater argument"
 
the Templar Leaders were also morons, good thing we can kill/judge them.  Fiona gets off scot free though

Implying that she cooperated with a process of demons being forced into Tranquil right before they were slaughtered is a neutral argument? I think you don't even know how to make one on this subject.

[Steelcan]

Its implied she and rest of people of Redcliff were fooled and the person who fooled gets to be judged, Alexius.

 

Commander Denam whom we judge knew exactly what red lyrium was and gave it to knights anyhow.

She wouldn't be the only person who was guilty of poor decision making we judge.  The old lady from Sahrnia gets arrested for allowing the red templars to come in and set up shop.

[Steelcan]

Implying that she cooperated with a process of demons being forced into Tranquil right before they were slaughtered is a neutral argument? I think you don't even know how to make one on this subject.

I didn't say she was standing there knife in hand waiting to slit throats.

 

I said she probably knew what became of them.

 

 

You seem to want to make my words out to be more hostile than they are

[Br3admax]

Implying that she cooperated with a process of demons being forced into Tranquil right before they were slaughtered is a neutral argument? I think you don't even know how to make one on this subject.

But it's more believable she had no idea where thousands of people went while personally working in the castle and village? Really? 

[thesuperdarkone2]

They still had a choice. They could still have fled or fought the Venatori. Not a good choice, but one that you'd think some would see as preferable to becoming de facto slavers and blood mages themselves. We may find out later that some did. Not everyone sees living no matter what the cost as the best option.

Well if you sided with the Templars, Dorian reveals that some did try to escape but without the Inquisition's help they were killed.

[Lulupab]

She wouldn't be the only person who was guilty of poor decision making we judge.  The old lady from Sahrnia gets arrested for allowing the red templars to come in and set up shop.

 

That's actually a valid concern, but those were not fooled by time magic so it probably makes her less guilty than those names, although still guilty hence the mages can be conscripted. Death of Fiona would definitely create factions and that's bad.

[Steelcan]

That's actually a valid concern, but those were not fooled by time magic so it probably makes her less guilty than those names, although still guilty hence the mages can be conscripted. Death of Fiona would definitely create factions and that's bad.

if they are in the Inquisition they can factionalize all they want as long as they stay in the Inquisition

[EmissaryofLies]

Templars **** the bed too. But it is easier to forgive them because the problem was localized at the very top and the people who disagreed with the new regime actually did something about it. Even if only for the coaxing of the ever undeserving Inquisitor. Unlike the pathetic Southern Mages.

 

A former sex slave who elevated herself to Grey Warden Grand Enchanter was reduced to a sniveling child apologizing to mommy cus she wet the bed.

[MisterJB]

Fiona was just talk all along.

In private "F*ck the Divine!"

 

To their faces, though:

"King Alistair, queen Anora, your majesties, I assure you, we never intended...but we have hundreds who need protection. Where will we go?"

 

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

[Addai]

But it's more believable she had no idea where thousands of people went while personally working in the castle and village? Really?

Did you read before you responded? The codex says most Tranquil were left behind in the Circles. You're making up a number out of thin air.

Templars **** the bed too. But it is easier to forgive them because the problem was localized at the very top and the people who disagreed with the new regime actually did something about it. Even if only for the coaxing of the ever undeserving Inquisitor. Unlike the pathetic Southern Mages.

A former sex slave who elevated herself to Grey Warden Grand Enchanter was reduced to a sniveling child apologizing to mommy cus she wet the bed.

Uh, what? Never mind. This thread has gone the way of all such threads, predictably.

[Br3admax]

Did you read before you responded? The codex says most Tranquil were left behind in the Circles. You're making up a number out of thin air.

There are no Circles, the few mages staying in Circles being harassed by the townsfolk. Cassandra even mentions she is wondering where all the Tranquil are, so if it's between a random codex, and all other information, I'm going with all other information. 

[Addai]

There are no Circles, the few mages staying in Circles being harassed by the townsfolk. Cassandra even mentions she is wondering where all the Tranquil are, so if it's between a random codex, and all other information, I'm going with all other information.

The codex is a note from Venatori. If Fiona had handed them thousands of Tranquil on a platter, they wouldn't be telling their operatives to scour the countryside for more. You just want to ignore plain facts in favor of h8terade.