951 réponses à ce sujet

[The Pink Ninja]

Cass's solutions seems like the best one. Trying to go back to the old system obviously doesn't work, that's how we got the war. Leliana goes too far too fast.

 

Mages have a big bonus in their favour if the Inquisitor/Chosen of Andraste was a mage.

 

The ideal system would be Circles where mages rule themselves, deal harshly with blood magic and crime amongst their members and Templars and Seekers take over a Circle temporarily if they fail to rule themselves well. All Mage children need to be taught by a Circle Mage though that doesn;t nesscessarily mean seperating them from their family. Dalish can deal with their own business so long as they're away from civilisation

 

(Note that Circle can be a governing body for a specific area, not nesscessarily a single communal building).

 

That ending is just nonsensical. Before Inquisition, after Kirkwall, people wouldn't look at a mage without lynching them and now the Divine herself was killed in the very same manner, the mage rebellion sold those granting them refuge to Tevinter and mages from the Venatori and Grey Wardens nearly took over Southern Thedas.
And we are supposed to believe that, after all this, there is any near future where mages can leave the protection of the Inquisition and not only survive but be respected?
I understand and don't oppose the need to havê a pro-mage ending but this is an insult to our intelligence.

 

Because Mages in the Inquistion including a possible Mage Herald of Andraste took them down.

 

Also without templars what will mage haters do? Mobs struggle to deal with people capable of flinging fire and if they are living comunually in a fortified tower like most circles are they're invulnerable to anything except templar lead military assaults.

 

Also since the mages can have more contact with the people that buys them good favour if they offer healing to the poor or protection if they work for nobles.

[MisterJB]

I think I could write a better pro-mage freedom ending that doesn't require Leliana magically talking away a thousand year old ethnic conflict.

"After the hereto unknown and weak willed Divine Flora was manipulated into the Sunburst Throne, the Inquisitor upsets every Cleric hoping to rule through her by doing so himself. The very first edict of this Divine, dissolving the Circle and Templars, is said to be penned by the very hand of the Inquisitor.

Outrage is immediate but forces loyal to the person of the Inquisitor help both safeguard the security of the new College of Enchanters and call favours that help dissuade the voices speaking against it.

A shaky peace is restored but it leads to independent Circles becoming war camps and cities refusing the entry of any mages. It is the Inquisition's hope that interaction and Divine Flora's pro-mage sermons will shape the future into one where both mages and non can live in freedom, independence and respect.

As with all things, time will tell."

[d-boy15]

I'm all for supporting Cass as Divine, but people that feel compelled to bash other candidates to validate their favorite don't really do much for their arguments.

I think Cass is hands-down the safest option for Divine. Her approach is progressive but cautious. This particular ending is one that I'm considering aiming for on my completionist playthrough that I've been planning out the past few days. That or the templar-aligned alternative. I play as a mage, BTW.

That said, Leliana's ending is more progressive, albeit with seemingly more potential for issue (higher risk, higher reward). But purely going off of the epilogue slides, it's canonically just as "good" as any of Cass's endings. On one hand, Cass leads to a "golden age," and on the other, Leliana creates "unprecedented acceptance for mages throughout Thedas." That much is fact. There's also no mention of conflict regarding the mages/templars in Leliana's mage-aligned ending, just like Cass's templar-aligned epilogue variant. Thus, as far as the source material, both are equally successful. Everything else is prediction and headcanon.

Anyway, the endings I'm considering for my completionist playthrough are;

Leliana as Divine, allied with the mages
Cass as Divine, conscripted the mages
Cass as Divine, allied with the templars

I naturally got Leliana as Divine on my first playthrough of the game (no metagaming), which I guess is telling of how I'd act myself in the situation. But rationally I recognize the practicality of Cass as Divine, and I do like the relative security of her endings.

A voice of reason... You sir are bloody rare kind in BSN these days.

[Master Warder Z_]

If the Bright Hand is the Jedi.... does that mean that Leliana's option or Vivienne's option will turn into the Sith Lords?

...Dude.

Don't even pretend to go there.

[TEWR]

I think I could write a better pro-mage freedom ending that doesn't require Leliana magically talking away a thousand year old ethnic conflict.

 

Not bad, not bad. If I wasn't so bloody tired I'd probably write a 3 page length post on how Inquisition could've appropriately dealt with the Mage-Templar conflict and how the common folk would react to such things and then how it'd go for the ending, but alas.... a need to sleep makes my mind say "Dude.... no. Just no."

[Jaison1986]

I think I could write a better pro-mage freedom ending that doesn't require Leliana magically talking away a thousand year old ethnic conflict.

"After the hereto unknown and weak willed Divine Flora was manipulated into the Sunburst Throne, the Inquisitor upsets every Cleric hoping to rule through her by doing so himself. The very first edict of this Divine, dissolving the Circle and Templars, is said to be penned by the very hand of the Inquisitor.

Outrage is immediate but forces loyal to the person of the Inquisitor help both safeguard the security of the new College of Enchanters and call favours that help dissuade the voices speaking against it.

A shaky peace is restored but it leads to independent Circles becoming war camps and cities refusing the entry of any mages. It is the Inquisition's hope that interaction and Divine Flora's pro-mage sermons will shape the future into one where both mages and non can live in freedom, independence and respect.

As with all things, time will tell."

 

Now that is something I agree. Unhardened Leliana ending makes no sense. As if all these conservative chantry priests could be talked out of their beliefs. While hardened, at least is more beliavable "you either accept my changes or you die".

[MisterJB]

Because Mages in the Inquistion including a possible Mage Herald of Andraste took them down.

 

Also without templars what will mage haters do? Mobs struggle to deal with people capable of flinging fire and if they are living comunually in a fortified tower like most circles are they're invulnerable to anything except templar lead military assaults.

 

Also since the mages can have more contact with the people that buys them good favour if they offer healing to the poor or protection if they work for nobles.

Which, in ultimate retrospective, will not matter in the slightest. The fear and hatred of mages is not something that can be negotiated away. How much did Garahel change things for the elves?

 

As for what they will do? Do you doubt Fiona and her group could have refused Alistair and Anora's order than they leave? Mages are powerful but they're outnumbered a hundred to one.

 

And, of course, there are ways for mages to manipulate events into their favour. I simply oppose the notion that mages can "enjoy widespread acceptance" under any circumstance after Kirkwall, the Temple of Sacred Ashes, Redcliff, the Grey Wardens, Venatori, Corypheus, etc.

 

[The Pink Ninja]

I think the games makes it clear hating and fearing mages is hardly a wide spread default and they're no worse off in public opinion than the templars after they revolted.

 

Also, like I said, people are dis-inclined to start fights with people they never see, who provide helpful healing magic, who have the protection of the nobility or who live in fortresses and can shoot fire.

 

 

As for what they will do? Do you doubt Fiona and her group could have refused Alistair and Anora's order than they leave? Mages are powerful but they're outnumbered a hundred to one.

 

Well yeah, since the Ferelden monarch couldn't do **** about this war in their own country.

 

More to the point, after this settlement they'd have no reason to. There'd be no organised attack on them. It'd just be annoyed mobs and they can't do ****.

[MisterJB]

I think the games makes it clear hating and fearing mages is hardly a wide spread default and they're no worse off in public opinion than the templars after they revolted.

Because...?
I mean, I can point out how a mob tried to lynch Wynne's group in "Asunder", how Fiona will tell you every city but Redcliff closed its doors to mages, how many Templar missions in the war table involve protecting mages from commoners, how Vivienne will tell you magic is now feared more than ever, etc.

There's signs of widespread fear everywhere. Where are the signs of widespread acceptance?

 

 

[Roamingmachine]

Funnily enough, in my playthroughs the inquisition mages form the Bright Hand out of their own free will and according to my understanding of the slides as part of the inquisition. It was to be an example for mages everywhere. No circles of any sort required. I've always had hardened Leliana as divine and the mages conscripted.
So yes, hooray for the Bright Hand!

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I actually got the tevinter 2.0 ending by accident. Shudders.

 

What ending is that? Mage freedom? Thats hardly Tevinter 2.0. Mages don't rule in Tevinter. A small group of old money families that cultivate magical potential rule. That doesn't mean all mages rule, heck, most mages are just as leashed as non mages. In fact, Tevinter nobility and Orleasian nobility has a striking resemblance.

 

I prefer mage freedom from Leliana. I also encourage Casandra to reform the seekers of truth. Soldiers immune to possession are clearly best at hunting demons/abominations. The new seekers of truth and the inquisition can handle problematic mages. Otherwise, let the mages rules themselves in their colleges.

 

If mages want to be able to do business in a country then they will have to show stability and discipline. So the colleges have a natural incentive to be well behaved. I imagine the harrowing and the option for apprentices to volunteer for tranquility will continue because the truth is that the circle mages supported this policy. The alternative is to kill every weak willed mage which is needlessly bloody and wasteful.

 

But no more Templars abusing tranquility as a cruel punishment. No more being locked in towers like prisoners. No more being forced to be separated from your children. No more being denied contact with your family. No more grim Templars forcing children into the circle, now mages themselves can recruit child to make the transition far less traumatic. No more being denied the right to raise your own family.

 

Speaking of which, having your own family provides a strong incentive for the colleges to be well ordered and avoid any risk of demonic possessions. As well as maintaining strong tires with the local community to help alleviate fears.

[TEWR]

Because...?
I mean, I can point out how a mob tried to lynch Wynne's group in "Asunder", how Fiona will tell you every city but Redcliff closed its doors to mages, how many Templar missions in the war table involve protecting mages from commoners, how Vivienne will tell you magic is now feared more than ever, etc.

There's signs of widespread fear everywhere. Where are the signs of widespread acceptance?

 

To be fair, in that scenario the Mages have been taken over by Tevinter and are now part of the Venatori actively causing mayhem and destruction as Corypheus' forces -- partially due to Alexius' gambit and also due to Arl Gallagher Wulff trying to get the mages out of Ferelden because he didn't understand Tevinter society at all -- so it's not like there wouldn't be a fear of magic there.

 

Not that I disagree with your premise that mages and magic during the Inquisition time frame are reviled, feared, and actively facing all manner of negative ****. Just that in that one it takes something that was pretty bad and makes it mega bad.

[MisterJB]

Well yeah, since the Ferelden monarch couldn't do **** about this war in their own country.

 

More to the point, after this settlement they'd have no reason to. There'd be no organised attack on them. It'd just be annoyed mobs and they can't do ****.

Really? You think Fiona wouldn't have defied Ferelden's army if she could?

You know, the army the monarchs had just brought with them to Redcliff and who secured the hall they were standing in?

 

And of course they could have a reason. Any action that results in a large number of mages becoming independent is bound to be controversial and to lead to problems in the future. What if a number of mages move into Ferelden? That's bound to create immense social problems leading to tensions that the monarchy will have to deal with possibly resulting in mages being forbidden from entering Ferelden like precisely what already happened in this game.

 

[Ieldra]

And then one will dominate the other. Just with more bloodshed involved. That's not helping anyone. 

So, that's how things usually happen? With one faction dominatiing everything? I recommend a look at the real world.

[Br3admax]

So, that's how things usually happen? With one faction dominatiing everything? I recommend a look at the real world.

Don't know what world you live in, but yeah, that's how the world works. It my flux from time to time, but there is always a dominate force, and it gets there by power and influence. That won't ever change. 

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Too Disneyland and not enough Dragon Age. That ending is almost lore breaking. And Bright Hand >>> CoE.

 

Bright Hand sounds lame. The college of enchanters is pretty much what the circles were......without using the name "the circle". To me it implys that this new college operates in the same way as the old one, just without templars being their jail wardens.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I can take the Barris hit for Alexius, but not everybody likes him. Only reason I decided to go with Hushed Whispers as canon. 

 

Actually, I like Alexius a lot. In the future, he only fights the party because Sith lord Leliana finished off his half dead son. Made me want to spare him. Also it annoys me that I can't scold Leliana for what her future self did. lol But that mission is the reason why I go with unhardened Leliana. I have to save her from that ugly (uh, pun not intended) alternate future self.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Some of you may be wondering what the Bright Hand is. It's the new Circle of Magi formed under Divine Victoria I (Cassandra) with the explicit purpose of avoiding or rectifying the mistakes made that led to the Mage-Templar War.

 

Why 'the Bright Hand'? I believe it's named in honor of the Herald of Andraste who conscripted the mages into military service and showed the world that they could be more than sheltered researchers leashed to and who's every action is controlled by the Chantry.

 

After the defeat of Corypheus the Bright Hand uses it's alliance with the Inquisition to push for sorely needed reforms. As to what their purpose will now be... I imagine something akin to the Jedi Order. Neutral diplomats and peacekeepers with martial training focused on keeping stability in southern Thedas. Mages ill suited to fighting will join the Hand's medical and research corps.

 

As a result of the Bright Hand's creation malcontents unsatisfied with Victoria I's reforms and various maleficarum band together in opposition of this great order. They wage a war in the shadows 

 

I believe that this is the best possible ending for the mages. The Circle is still governed by the Chantry, but they have unprecedented autonomy and the responsibilities that come with it. No more cowering and complaining about oppression or rights. Time to contribute to Thedas and in turn earn the respect and admiration of the people.

 

As for what conditions are required for the Bright Hand ending... A couple of people are still working through it. So far what is known is that Cassandra becoming Divine and the conscription of the Circle of Magi are absolutely required. Some people believe it may also require a mage Inquisitor.

 

Interesting ending, but I refuse to change my canon from Divine Cassandra with the templars as allies and Barris leading them, I prefer letting the order once again become champions of the just. Sorry! 

 

That said, I will definetly make a playthrough where this ending is achieved, it is worthwhile enough to be imported into future games.

[RobRam10]

Just can't bring myself to to do the mage quest, since I run Cass in my party at all times.. and she gets an amulet of power at the Templar quest. I care about what optimizes the game as I'm playing it too much. Not the epilogues. That's about as important as the "Silver Order" from DAA. I also don't care to "set an example for mages" per se. I fight for faith.

Let her go Street.

[TEWR]

Just can't bring myself to to do the mage quest, since I run Cass in my party at all times.. and she gets an amulet of power at the Templar quest. I care about what optimizes the game as I'm playing it too much. Not the epilogues. That's about as important as the "Silver Order" from DAA. I also don't care to "set an example for mages" per se. I fight for faith.

 

Do it! For Alexius!