Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Fair enough.
Although I'd only say "no more magic" is a catastrophe, just because it'd make for a boring game. Technically though, it's not a catastrophe.
I'm pretty sure it is. Magic is bound to the laws of nature. You mess around with it unflinchingly and bad things are going to happen.
"I don't even want to think of what this will do to the fabric of the universe. We didn't move through time so much as punch a hole through it and toss it into the privy."
I agree with Solas on many things, but if his intention is to tear down the Veil completely then that's not one of them.
I wonder if having no Veil has something to do with immortality. Cuz, you know, elves were immortal and then became mortal. And humans say that those who die go beyond the Veil. So maybe ancient elves screwed themselves by creating the Veil, or at least screwed those who stayed on this side of the Veil.
I've stewed over this as well, but there's still a lot unanswered for me to take a solid stance. So far it's a cautionary wait and see with a decent dose of skepticism. I do believe that spirits and demons (and blood magic for that matter) isn't as cut and dry and the Chantry depicts them. That's why I favored research over everything in DA:I.
Agreed on all fronts.
Solas' vision for the world just sounds like DA's equivalent of ME3 Synthesis.
So yeah... I'd love to see a real conflict about that. I have plenty of hate in waiting.
Agreed. Solas was totally my inquisitor's bro, but I doubt the world he intends to bring forth is one he can support.
Hopefully my inquisitor will have help from the chantry's best and brightest to help stop this mad elven god.
I would have been fine with it had one of the endings not been so insulting [looks at unhardened Leliana as divine].
It may look that way if you're used to the pre-Inquisition status, but I can see it happening. Granted, it's probably the least plausible outcome, but the opinion of the Chantry has weight with the common people of Southern Thedas. If the Chantry supports the new system and the College of Enchanters is diligent in containing the problem cases - which is in its best interest to do - then it can work. Consider how many problems were caused by people hiding their mageborn children. If that's no longer necessary things might as well improve with little further intervention.
That ending is just nonsensical. Before Inquisition, after Kirkwall, people wouldn't look at a mage without lynching them and now the Divine herself was killed in the very same manner, the mage rebellion sold those granting them refuge to Tevinter and mages from the Venatori and Grey Wardens nearly took over Southern Thedas.
And we are supposed to believe that, after all this, there is any near future where mages can leave the protection of the Inquisition and not only survive but be respected?
I understand and don't oppose the need to havê a pro-mage ending but this is an insult to our intelligence.
The whole world witnessed mages closing the breach. The Inquisitor being mage helps immensely as well. They fought besides the army of faithful and they grow found of each other, In Haven or skyhold you can hear mages and Inquisition soldiers talking to each other. They are getting along and recognizing they have misjudged mages.
You see Inquisition mages fighting grey wardens and their demons to save Thedas like anyone else. More importantly none fall to temptation. There is even a dialogue about this. Putting extra watch on Inquisition mages was redundant.
If you side with mages, red templars are raiding villages and harvesting people to use as Lyrium mines. They turn people into red Lyrium. It was Inquisition and its mages who fought these red Templars. The Inquisition has a lot of mages, its the vast majority of southern nations.
I can pretty much go on. It was magic that saved world from dangers of magic. The college is made by either Leliana or Cassandra, both of which have the support of Inquisition. The world now knows that it needs magic to survive and mages are more than capable to look after themselves.
It may look that way if you're used to the pre-Inquisition status, but I can see it happening. Granted, it's probably the least plausible outcome, but the opinion of the Chantry has weight with the common people of Southern Thedas. If the Chantry supports the new system and the College of Enchanters is diligent in containing the problem cases - which is in its best interest to do - then it can work. Consider how many problems were caused by people hiding their mageborn children. If that's no longer necessary things might as well improve with little further intervention.
Well said. People are ignoring the fact that circles caused a lot of problems as well.
Mistrust and fear and superstition will not vanish overnight though. Even if we believe Inquisition takes place over a year, that's still not going to be long enough to change the hearts and minds of people.
PoC fought in numerous wars and yet they were still enslaved and treated like crap. It took a long ass time for even the slightest inkling of change to really take root.
DA's ten years wouldn't really cut it, as magic has had centuries upon centuries to garner a rotten perception.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I don't know how many problems the Circle actually caused. We only start this series in the middle of the Dragon Age. Yet the Circles thrived for almost a thousand years. It took a Justice spirit, who knew jack about living in this world, to blow things up. And now all of the sudden the Chantry system is the worst system ever? I don't buy it.
I like a lot of these endings.. don't get me wrong.. but I think this whole idea of the Chantry doing things so badly is overstated.
It may look that way if you're used to the pre-Inquisition status, but I can see it happening. Granted, it's probably the least plausible outcome, but the opinion of the Chantry has weight with the common people of Southern Thedas. If the Chantry supports the new system and the College of Enchanters is diligent in containing the problem cases - which is in its best interest to do - then it can work. Consider how many problems were caused by people hiding their mageborn children. If that's no longer necessary things might as well improve with little further intervention.
that the Chantry is willing to entertain the idea at all is lore breaking
I don't know how many problems the Circle actually caused. We only start this series in the middle of the Dragon Age. Yet the Circles thrived for almost a thousand years. It took a Justice spirit, who knew jack about living in this world, to blow things up. And now all of the sudden the Chantry system is the worst system ever? I don't buy it.
I like a lot of these endings.. don't get me wrong.. but I think this whole idea of the Chantry doing things so badly is overstated.
Chantry allowed Kirkwall circle to exist for centuries, and the solution it came up with was an exalted march if things go south. Intervention was absolutely necessary yet it was ignored and mages and Templar went at each other freely.
It was injustice and in my honest opinion chantry deserved the spanking. Too bad innocents were caught in the middle.
I don't know how many problems the Circle actually caused. We only start this series in the middle of the Dragon Age. Yet the Circles thrived for almost a thousand years. It took a Justice spirit, who knew jack about living in this world, to blow things up. And now all of the sudden the Chantry system is the worst system ever? I don't buy it.
I like a lot of these endings.. don't get me wrong.. but I think this whole idea of the Chantry doing things so badly is overstated.
Thrived isn't quite the word I'd use to describe it. Something can seem to be healthy and vibrant from the outside looking in but once you step into it you might see the corruption and decadence that was once hidden from view.
But I'm too tired to debate now. Sleep comes upon me.
Chantry allowed Kirkwall circle to exist for centuries, and the solution it came up with was an exalted march if things go south. Intervention was absolutely necessary yet it was ignored and mages and Templar went at each other freely.
It was injustice and in my honest opinion chantry deserved the spanking. Too bad innocents were caught in the middle.
do you happen to have evidence of systemic and continued abuse over the centuries in Kirkwall? Before Meredith took over?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Bioware reallty screwed the pooch by illustrating everything with Kirkwall, of all places. Take a nightmarish worst case scenario, and then try to convince everyone it's a systemic problem.
It worked, I guess.
could've been worseBioware reallty screwed the pooch by illustrating everything with Kirkwall, of all places. Take a nightmarish worst case scenario, and then try to convince everyone it's a systemic problem.
It worked, I guess.
do you happen to have evidence of systemic and continued abuse over the centuries in Kirkwall? Before Meredith took over?
Its a known fact that Kirkwall circle was the worst circle in Thedas way before Meredith. Circle in an old slave building, thin veil, Strongest presence of templars in any circle, Vivienne also mentions this.
Like if you need to ask proof when an old slave prison built upon thousands of dead slave graves which causes the veil to be thin, then I don't have anything else to say. It was the Divine who decided the old prison is a nice place for a circle. See the codex about the gallows.
Bioware reallty screwed the pooch by illustrating everything with Kirkwall, of all places. Take a nightmarish worst case scenario, and then try to convince everyone it's a systemic problem.
It worked, I guess.
Indeed it did.
Its a known fact that Kirkwall circle was the worst circle in Thedas way before Meredith. Circle in an old slave building, thin veil, Strongest presence of templars in any circle, Vivienne also mentions this.
Like if you need to ask proof when an old slave prison built upon thousands of dead slave graves which causes the veil to be thin, then I don't have anything else to say. It was the Divine who decided the old prison is a nice place for a circle. See the codex about the gallows.
Ok the Veil was thin and there were lots of templars, but do you have any accounts of mages there being subjected the Tranquil Solution, or being kept as sex slaves from before Meredith took power?
simple question, yes or no
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Indeed it did.
But they're trying to make other points at the same time now.. where some mages liked the Circles.. or you get characters like Vivienne now.
And it isn't working well. Because DA2 has skewed the vision..
http://dragonage.wik..._Circle_of_Magi
The Circle of Magi was established centuries ago to protect us, and to protect those without magic from the things we might do. No man in his right mind would disagree that these are noble goals. I refuse to believe that the Chantry intended the injustice and oppression we suffered in the intervening years. Segregation of mages from non-mages withintemplar-guarded compounds was the best—possibly the only—option available.
We have recently had to face the stark reality that the system failed us. The Circle of Magi in Ferelden's Kinloch Hold was one of the most liberally run, and even there we saw sedition and dissent, resulting in a failed revolt that nearly destroyed the entire tower. Perhaps stringency could work where leniency failed? I would present Kirkwall's Gallows as evidence against such thinking. Knight-Commander Meredith's vice-grip on the Circle in her care backfired, leaving us where we are now.
If the Circles, no matter how they are managed, do not—perhaps cannot—function as intended, what is next? There are no easy answers. The events of recent years have forced me to reexamine my views on freedom. As Aequitarians, we have always advocated self-control and cooperation with the Chantry, but this approach may no longer serve. I must consider that our Libertarian brothers and sisters had the right of it all along. Look at the strife and chaos that now consumes our world. Fighting for independence, for a better system, may not improve our situation. But it cannot make it any worse.
—Letter from Senior Enchanter Vormann Quine of Cumberland to a colleague, dated 9:39 Dragon
So what is it, too lenient or too strict of a Circle? Both cases provided problems. The problem is the Circle system itself.
Bioware reallty screwed the pooch by illustrating everything with Kirkwall, of all places. Take a nightmarish worst case scenario, and then try to convince everyone it's a systemic problem.
It worked, I guess.
Have one side scream "muh freedomz" constantly while enacting godwin's law on the other side, and most people's knee-jerk reaction is to side with the former.
Ok the Veil was thin and there were lots of templars, but do you have any accounts of mages there being subjected the Tranquil Solution, or being kept as sex slaves from before Meredith took power?
simple question, yes or no
Nothing is simple about it, nor there is much information before Meredith. The only known fact is it was the least favored circle for mages to be in.
Nothing is simple about it, nor there is much information before Meredith. The only known fact is it was the least favored circle for mages to be in.
I'll take that as a no
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