243 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

How do you pronounce "Светлана"?

"S" from fights

"ve" from veneration

"t" from rat

"la" from lab

"na" from china

[CrutchCricket]

Another extreme is "the endings are vile and I won't touch anything Mass EffectBioware(Edmonton)-related content if it has any connection to the endings".

The amended version is who I represent. I only added the Edmonton bit because TOR already sucked a substantial amount of cash post-ME3. Though that's really attributed more to Star Wars and MMO shenaningans than anything. Yes there is pre-ending Bioware writing that makes it appealing and there's something to be said about the fact that it's Bioware writing Star Wars that made me put up with an MMO in the first place. But beyond that, they are not seeing a discontinued penny from me for anything Mass Effect, or touched by the individuals who were associated with or knowingly signed off on the endings.

 

That being said I have gone back to SP a few times, though nowhere near as many as the earlier games. And three years later, the rage is gone and I've actually dicked around in SP again a few days ago. Back on here semi-regularly. But the loathing remains. I no longer "care" in the sense of having an active emotional reaction to the thought of the endings. But I did not forget. And I do not forgive.

[Asharad Hett]

I live in the world where complaints directed towards people who create art based on the complainee not liking the art because it doesn't satisfy them are not taken seriously.

What you call art, I call entertainment.   I place it in the same category as books, movies, television, and radio.  It may include artistic elements created by artistic talent, but it is sold as entertainment.    Your attempt to belittle someone's opinion of a story is .... trolling.

 

 

Judge ME4 on the merits of ME3. Go ahead and do it. Granted, it's rather silly to completely write off an entire game that hasn't been released yet just because you didn't like the ending of the game that came before it.

 I did not enjoy then ending of "The Man of Steel" movie, and so I will not buy a ticket for "Batman vs Superman".  I may revise my plans if, and only if, public sentiment is considerably different than it was for "The Man of Steel".   I have made the same plans for ME4.   Feel free to belittle my opinion.  

 

Before you reply telling me to "move on" or "overcome my bitterness"; before you pin blame on me; or before you accuse me of trolling:  I am sincerely interested in ME4, and I visit this forum occasionally to see if there are any updates (official or otherwise).   I will need to know much more about the game post-launch before I consider buying.

[Daemul]

I wasn't depressed about the ending, it was a masterpiece compared to garbage like the Star Ocean 3 ending, what I was depressed by was the game and the trilogy coming to an end. I had gotten over it by the the time I woke up in the morning though, and I started a NG+ later that day.

[sveners]

Translation for you:

I'm mad that I didn't get what I wanted, and am willing to throw away logic and reason in that anger. How dare people not be as outraged as I am.

Your tweets are better

[God]

What you call art, I call entertainment.   I place it in the same category as books, movies, television, and radio.  It may include artistic elements created by artistic talent, but it is sold as entertainment.    Your attempt to belittle someone's opinion of a story is .... trolling.

 

 

 

So you're saying that you don't consider any of these mediums to be artistic at all? Or are you arbitrarily defining art based on your own preferences? You can buy artwork and paintings too. Would that not make it considered entertainment? 

 

And secondly, here, I'm not attempting to belittle someone's opinion of a story. I'm belittling their response to it. I can criticize your opinion as much as you can criticize mine or anyone else's. And I can make it a hell of a lot more logical and reasonable.

 

 I did not enjoy then ending of "The Man of Steel" movie, and so I will not buy a ticket for "Batman vs Superman".  I may revise my plans if, and only if, public sentiment is considerably different than it was for "The Man of Steel".   I have made the same plans for ME4.   Feel free to belittle my opinion.

 

 

 

Very well. It's non-sensical to pin the blame and your own view of the next movie on one sequence or aspect of the story. Now, unlike the legions of people for ME3, I don't know what it is you have as a beef for the ending of Man of Steel. I know what a lot of the people are complaining about for ME3's ending. Many of them have valid reasons for disliking the ending. And many have invalid arguments to support their irrational and emotional dislike of the ending.

 

For example, if you're upset at the the technical narrative, such as how the ending itself was presented and how it tried to address the concept it was shooting for, then I'd say you have a point. It's certainly how I feel. If you're upset that using the Crucible didn't reflect years of choices and work, then I have little sympathy for you. Those choices obviously aren't going to be factored into how the Crucible functions, nor do any of those choices contain an element that applies to stopping the Reapers so much as they do of solving problems while leading up to the Reaper confrontation. They didn't, couldn't, and shouldn't reflect on the ending and the mandate to stop the Reapers. If you're mad at the revelation that the Reapers aren't totally evil and actually have an agenda that, however destructive it is, serves as a logical stop-gap to the actual problem the Reapers have been trying to solve, one that is very real, and one that cannot be solved in any other way than the 4 options your given, then yes, I have no sympathy. And if you're mad because you didn't like the game not having you say '**** you' to the Reapers and having the galaxy destroy them, then yes, I'm going to make fun of you and think you're an idiot.

 

For a perceived drop in the technical and narrative quality of the franchise over one (or maybe all the games) is one thing to make you have a reason for disliking the ending.

 

To refuse to buy the game is ultimately your own decision, but to decry the next game entirely, solely because events happened that you don't like or agree with in the ending sequence of the previous game is completely irrational. You're judging a game that we have no details about based on what happened in a previous games ending. That's pretty loony.

 

Before you reply telling me to "move on" or "overcome my bitterness"; before you pin blame on me; or before you accuse me of trolling:  I am sincerely interested in ME4, and I visit this forum occasionally to see if there are any updates (official or otherwise).   I will need to know much more about the game post-launch before I consider buying.

 

 

I'm not going to tell you to move on or overcome your bitterness. I try not to make that my MO. For some people, they very obviously need to do just that. 

 

As for blame pinning, I can't blame you for anything, unless you try to say the ending is bad because of what happens. And why would I accuse you of trolling? I know trolling when I see it. Emotionally indignant is what I'd categorize your response as, and its somewhat milder than others.  

 

If you're the kind of person who makes this a routine to buy a game post-launch and check reviews, then all I can say is that you have a better business sense than I. I don't hype games, I just buy them. I let them do their thing, and then judge them.

[Quarian Master Race]

sorry, but looking at what modern "art" has become I wouldn't ever think to insult ME3 or its creators like that. Hell, I wouldn't even insult Big Mutha Truckas or DOA Volleyball by comparing it to this "art"

[prosthetic soul]

 

So you're saying that you don't consider any of these mediums to be artistic at all? Or are you arbitrarily defining art based on your own preferences? You can buy artwork and paintings too. Would that not make it considered entertainment? 

 

And secondly, here, I'm not attempting to belittle someone's opinion of a story. I'm belittling their response to it. I can criticize your opinion as much as you can criticize mine or anyone else's. And I can make it a hell of a lot more logical and reasonable.

 

You seem to think it's just the ending we have a problem with.  Which is entirely not the case.  The ending is merely the focal point from which all the other issues revolve around.  Let's come up with a hypothetical.  Let's say Bioware didn't lie straight up to our face prior to the release of Mass Effect 3.  In fact, they outright said not to expect too much with the ending.  You know what?  Let's go all the way here.  Let's say Bioware explicitly stated before the release that ME 3 would have only three "endings" and they would all be vastly similar to one another.  No lies exist in this hypothetical whatsoever. 

 

Everyone plays through the game and everyone still ends up thinking the endings are absolute crap.  As do I.  Would we still be upset? Yes.  Would we even still demand an Extended Cut?  Maybe, maybe not.  But here's where things change.   While many would have been let down, they wouldn't have felt both let down and lied to, and thus wouldn't be swearing off Bioware games left and right. 

 

You seem to think it's JUST because of the ending when in reality, people felt their trust had been betrayed.  That can only come from lies, not from just a crappy ending that doesn't conclude anything and is full of plot holes and nonsense.  As for me, If Bioware had shown actual humility after the fiasco instead of simply becoming more stubborn and arrogant and shouting ARTISTIC INTEGRITY to the rooftops, I would be singing a different tune today.  I guarantee it.

[God]

You seem to think it's just the ending we have a problem with.  Which is entirely not the case.  The ending is merely the focal point from which all the other issues revolve around.  Let's come up with a hypothetical.  Let's say Bioware didn't lie straight up to our face prior to the release of Mass Effect 3.  In fact, they outright said not to expect too much with the ending.  You know what?  Let's go all the way here.  Let's say Bioware explicitly stated before the release that ME 3 would have only three "endings" and they would all be vastly similar to one another.  No lies exist in this hypothetical whatsoever. 

 

Everyone plays through the game and everyone still ends up thinking the endings are absolute crap.  As do I.  Would we still be upset? Yes.  Would we even still demand an Extended Cut?  Maybe, maybe not.  But here's where things change.   While many would have been let down, they wouldn't have felt both let down and lied to, and thus wouldn't be swearing off Bioware games left and right. 

 

You seem to think it's JUST because of the ending when in reality, people felt their trust had been betrayed.  That can only come from lies, not from just a crappy ending that doesn't conclude anything and is full of plot holes and nonsense.  As for me, If Bioware had shown actual humility after the fiasco instead of simply becoming more stubborn and arrogant and shouting ARTISTIC INTEGRITY to the rooftops, I would be singing a different tune today.  I guarantee it.

 

Well, bub, you shouldn't have been buying the hype machine. I will say that BW really overdid it with the hype for ME3, but at the end of the day, you were the one to fall for it. 

 

However, there comes a time when you can look at BW's response. Look at how they're trying not to hype ME4. They're keeping it under wraps, and they're not releasing any information that isn't concrete. And they're banking on selling a product based on its own merits to win back fan support (similar to DA:I) rather than taking for granted that the fans will love it based on the title of the game and the developer. 

 

There's a difference between holding the wallet to wait for reviews and feedback from people you do trust, and swearing off all their games forever over one mishap. BW learned their lesson. Learn yours: don't buy into the hype. Wait for a quality product. 

[CrutchCricket]

You're acting like they have a choice. They can't take their brand for granted anymore precisely because it's tainted. Before this time three years ago "Mass Effect" was a Triple-A powerhouse and the term "Bioware" was synonymous with good writing. And then they fucked it all up.

 

Not that it matters. Because hype or no, EA will continue milking the company and the franchise. And it'll work because gullible dolts will continue forking over the cash for empty fluff. If anything, that's what they've learned.

 

It's not about judging one game for the crimes of another. Its about not wasting a single unit of the most impoverished third-world country's currency on anyone who signed off on, and later stood by this farce. Collectively. Anyone who does anything presumably tries to do it to the best of their ability. Well, anyone who tried and got the ME3 endings as a result has no skill worth trusting.

[God]

I think the issue here is now you're assigning broad strokes to everyone in the system. To me, they're human. They're not perfect. Some are worse than others. And they're all capable of screwing up.

 

I think Mac Walters is a hack writer, and is an inept leader of the franchise (which is why I'm glad he's been reassigned elsewhere). 

 

I'm willing to give new people who are manning the boat for the first time a chance, even if it means paying for EA's marketing strategy. Granted, I'm certain I'll hold off for a few weeks to see the reception the game gets.

 

Personally, I've grown from hating the ending to looking at it again and coming to the conclusion that it wasn't all that bad of a concept. It was poorly written and executed, but the big picture wasn't something I disagree with. It's reconcilable with my playstyle and worldview, so I'm able to accept it.

[AlanC9]

 I did not enjoy then ending of "The Man of Steel" movie, and so I will not buy a ticket for "Batman vs Superman"

What was wrong with the ending in particular?

[AlanC9]

You're acting like they have a choice. They can't take their brand for granted anymore precisely because it's tainted. Before this time three years ago "Mass Effect" was a Triple-A powerhouse and the term "Bioware" was synonymous with good writing. And then they fucked it all up.

Not that it matters. Because hype or no, EA will continue milking the company and the franchise. And it'll work because gullible dolts will continue forking over the cash for empty fluff. If anything, that's what they've learned.

So their brand is tainted, but not tainted enough to matter?

[angol fear]

sorry, but looking at what modern "art" has become I wouldn't ever think to insult ME3 or its creators like that. Hell, I wouldn't even insult Big Mutha Truckas or DOA Volleyball by comparing it to this "art"

 

Art has become what it was. If you don't understand, it's because you don't know what art is.

 

As for me, If Bioware had shown actual humility after the fiasco instead of simply becoming more stubborn and arrogant and shouting ARTISTIC INTEGRITY to the rooftops, I would be singing a different tune today.  I guarantee it.

 

Bioware is arrogant because they didn't change their ending? I'd like to see where they have shown arrogance because they didn't. You took "artistic integry" as an insult, but it wasn't. (I know art is an insult here)

Now imagine you tell a story (the story you wanted to tell), the critics love it, you've got awards, you're proud of it. But some people didn't like it and want your ending to be changed. Will you do it when you think that it's the best story you've made? If you have ambition, will you make it disappear because of some people who don't like intellectual amibition and just want large audience entertainment?

 

 

the term "Bioware" was synonymous with good writing. And then they fucked it all up.

 

 

Actually that's your opinion. With Mass Effect and their (original) ending, Bioware reached the highest level of writing in video game. You can think that it's just my opinion.

[God]

Oh, ME3 apologists.

 

You're as bad as the complainers really. The ones who are outraged they didn't get what they want.

[Asharad Hett]

God seems to think that opinions should be logical, and that art should be appreciated no matter how poorly developed.   He enjoys trolling the ME3 haters.  It brings him joy, in the most illogical way.   God views his trolling as a form of art, and is unwilling to accept opinions other than his own creation.  In his mind, his opinion is logical.  He fails to grasp that opinions by definition are always illogical, his own included.

 

The Oxford entry for "opinion" is thus:

1. A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

2. The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing

 

There are other variations of the definition, but I believe I have made my point.    God believes that nobody has a right to an opinion other than his own supported by faltering logic.   My alternative opinions is that God is a troll, and gains great pleasure in agitating those who share my views.

[Asharad Hett]

Dear God, there are many forms of entertainment.   Almost all include some form of art.  You accuse me of claiming that a video game is not a form of art.  I have openly stated that video games are an art form sold as entertainment.  The same can be said of FoxNews, SpongeBob Squarepants, and the Man of Steel.  You have proposed that art in its raw form should be appreciated.   There are many forms of art.  I can depict atrocities drawn in my own feces, and claim it to be art.   Pornographers claim that they have created art.    There are felons who claim that they have created art.  Shall I appreciate all forms of "art"?   I think not.   

 

And that is MY opinion.

[Asharad Hett]

My intent is to show that God is a troll, with intent to upset those who did not appreciate the ME3 endings.   In fact he has upset me.  I hope the forum moderators will be lenient.   However I may have overstepped boundaries that even God dare not cross.    For that I apologize.  

 

I look forward to what Bioware will bring for ME4.  I hope that the writing is better than it has been in the past.

[Asharad Hett]

What was wrong with the ending in particular?

 

This post refers to the "Man of Steel" movie.   It is a CG smash fest.  It bored myself, my wife, and my children.    We were all glad when the movie ended.   I grew up reading Superman comics, and found the movie to be offensive.  I realize that about 50% of the viewers enjoyed the movie.  On the otherhand, i say it is the worst Superman movie created (worse than Superman IV).

 

It really doesn't matter, and is getting far off topic.  I only mentioned it because my opinion of "The Man of Steel" is unpopular on other forums.  On those other forums, I have been bullied.   The same is happening here by the hand of God.  Unpopular opinions are always bullied and trolled.   He really should feel guilty, but instead he gains pleasure from my angst.   That is the life of forum troll.

[Asharad Hett]

I should go....

[Asharad Hett]

With Mass Effect and their (original) ending, Bioware reached the highest level of writing in video game. You can think that it's just my opinion.

 

I respect that opinion.  Can you respect mine?

[angol fear]

Oh, ME3 apologists.

 

You're as bad as the complainers really. The ones who are outraged they didn't get what they want.

 

Thank you. You must be better than all of us, don't you God?

 

 

I respect that opinion.  Can you respect mine?

 

I quoted CrutchCricket , but yes I do respect anyone's opinion, as long as it is written that it's an opinion. If you read post 160, you'll see that he doesn't think he's giving his own opinion.

[God]

I should go....

 

Considering I just called out an ending lover? 

 

Sure, why not.

[God]

Thank you. You must be better than all of us, don't you God?

 

Nope, I just think your brand of defending the ending is as bad as some people's railing against it.

[AlanC9]

This post refers to the "Man of Steel" movie.   It is a CG smash fest.  It bored myself, my wife, and my children.    We were all glad when the movie ended.   I grew up reading Superman comics, and found the movie to be offensive.  I realize that about 50% of the viewers enjoyed the movie.  On the otherhand, i say it is the worst Superman movie created (worse than Superman IV).

 

Yeah, I get that. But I didn't think the ending was any worse than the rest of the movie.