243 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the overall message, concept of the ending, and the outcomes don't need changing. 

 

If you don't like those, deal with it. They don't need to change. I think telling someone to change their message, as it were is wrong. BW had a message. Some people didn't like it. But they have to deal with it.

 

It could have been handled much, much better, especially the first time, along with some of the over-fixes that BW put on the other problems, but the ending in general? It needed clarification rather than changing. And they handled that alright.

 

Does the ME3 ending, conceptually, fit in with the rest of the game, though? When the story dealt with AI it was this hamfisted, emotional appeal to how human robots were. It dealt very little with the actual issues that AI could pose -- it actually seemed to deliberately avoid or downplay them. Then you get to the ending and suddenly you're asked to make a difficult decision about a complicated issue that has little in the way of actual substance in not just ME3 but the series as a whole. There's no build up or resolution, and I don't think it's because of execution but rather a core issue with the ending's premise.

[God]

Does the ME3 ending, conceptually, fit in with the rest of the game, though? When the story dealt with AI it was this hamfisted, emotional appeal to how human robots were. It dealt very little with the actual issues that AI could pose -- it actually seemed to deliberately avoid or downplay them. Then you get to the ending and suddenly you're asked to make a difficult decision about a complicated issue that has little in the way of actual substance in not just ME3 but the series as a whole. There's no build up or resolution, and I don't think it's because of execution but rather a core issue with the ending's premise.

 

I don't honestly think the issue brought up in the ending needs to have been necessarily foreshadowed (which it was to a limited extent) or made thematically consistent with the rest of the series.

 

It's the Reapers issue, not yours, though you would be wise to understand the value of looking at and solving the problem.

 

It reframes the conflict with the Reapers, not replaces it. You learn that the Reapers did have a discernible purpose, and that they had a problem that they were trying to solve. And that problem is indeed graver on a longer term scale than even the Reapers.

 

I don't think the premise of the ending is bad. Is it consistent with the rest of the series? Maybe not, but it doesn't need to be. It doesn't need or have to be a payout to everything else. That's what the post climax is. The actual climax itself takes on a different issue.

[CrutchCricket]

To Crutch, I want to know what you specifically think is bad about the ending and what you were going for in response.

I already answered this and the answer really is "everything". It'd be easier to list what does work:

 

-The relay network being used to send a wave/signal everywhere in the galaxy to "get" all the Reapers at once. I was previously against this, preferring instead that the Crucible be a superweapon of a more conventional nature that just one-shots Reapers near it. Think Death Star. Upon further consideration, the issues of then hunting down every Reaper in the galaxy when they could hide anywhere (including dark space) combined with the possibility that they might decide to go scorched earth and just bomb every habitable world before I get to them convinced me it really does have to be all or nothing. Though that would be an interesting AU.

-Destroy as a (space magic) EMP wave. Fine until we're told it's a "smart" EMP wave that can tell what's an AI and what isn't and leave those poor toasters belonging to the latter category alone.

-Control as a signal rewriting the Reapers. Again, control should've had more setup, everything up to this point has hammered home to the point of paranoia that it's impossible. Also Shepard the soldier space hero doesn't translate smoothly into Shepard the mechagod. It's just not that kind of story. Otherwise it's acceptable.

 

Everything else after the space elevator comes down is pure garbage. The holokid and its bullshit logic, capitualting to the enemy, synthesis, relays exploding, Gilligan's Planet, all of it. Everything in this series invalidated in one fell swoop.

 

But I think you already knew that...

[God]

I can see how some of these would be an issue, but several were fixed afterwards.

 

Namely, the unnamed planet. The symbolism, especially after Synthesis (which I jumped into the very first time, having no clue what was going on), and the irony weren't lost on me. It was heavy handed as hell. You have a simultaneous jump forward and back, with the new evolution of life combined with the physical tech pushing you back to the pre-interstellar age, with EDI and Joker not so subtly implied to be the new Adam and Eve. The original ending to ME3 is symbolic to the point where it rivals The End of Evangelion in mind-screwery and symbolism.

 

That was fixed for the most part, though it now leads to the relevance of even showing the world at all, since they just get off of it. 

 

The relays being knocked out, then fixed just as quickly makes it feel like the fix that Os was talking about, where it's obvious the fix went too far that you notice where they're trying to fix it.

 

I'm not opposed to Synthesis as concept, but it was presented terribly. 

 

As for the Catalyst, I don't see what's all that bad about him or his dilemma. Or his solution. Or coming to understand his viewpoint. I don't think it's capitulating to the enemy at all for us. We're the ones who made the possibilities ourselves. The Catalyst is merely informing us what the Crucible and Citadel combined is now capable of. For me, the ending in particular take a lot of similarities to the aformented EoE

[Steelcan]

 

As for the Catalyst, I don't see what's all that bad about him or his dilemma. Or his solution. Or coming to understand his viewpoint. I don't think it's capitulating to the enemy at all for us. We're the ones who made the possibilities ourselves. The Catalyst is merely informing us what the Crucible and Citadel combined is now capable of. For me, the ending in particular take a lot of similarities to the aformented EoE

oh lordy, haven't gotten into an argument on this in a long time...

 

The Catalyst needs to just be cut, his inane babble is just horrendous

[Jaquio]

I felt hollow.

 

Which itself is a powerful statement because I can honestly say that up until the last 15 minutes, I had never been more emotionally invested in a video game series in my entire life.  I'm in my mid-30s.  I've been at this a long time, yet ME grabbed me and made me care.

 

And then it took all of my emotional investment and threw it off a cliff.

 

Granted, I played and got the pre-extended cut ending.  Afterwards, I've watched (I can't bring myself to play it again) the new endings, and I have to say, the high EMS destroy ending is almost palatable, and I've established that's my real ending.  But still, it just sucked all the life out of the series for me.

 

And since they've hopelessly shut off the game from that point forward (due to Synthesis or Control endings) all we'll get is prequels and I can't possibly bring myself to care that much knowing how it all ends.

[paramitch]

I just discovered ME three freaking months ago, and it's been so much fun to fall in love with the games -- I've just done 3 playthroughs so far but it's been so rewarding and so much fun.

 

To echo the OP, I definitely felt profoundly sad after ME3 was over the first time I played it. Yes, I was dissatisfied with the ending (which even in EC form felt visibly rushed and illogical to me), but I was okay with it anyway.  I did find the final montage powerful and quietly moving in spite of the flaws in the storytelling, too.

 

I was more sad to be "finished" one more time with this wonderful universe and its rich characters. I missed them in ways that I missed Harry Potter after 7 books, or Jack Aubrey after 20+. The way I missed the Buffyverse after dozens of hours, etc. By the time each playthrough ends, we've spent dozens, even hundreds of hours in Mass Effect's world. The game is that rich to me. So even though I didn't love the ending, I did feel a sense of completion and loss. I would miss these characters until the next playthrough.

 

But then a week later, I started all over again, already thinking about decisions I might have changed, paths I might have taken with a different Shep. So that also means we get that joy of replay, that feeling of rebirth when we go back and restart. Anytime we want Shepard alive again, and Shep's loyal band of misfits and squadmates, the game is waiting.

 

Also, OP, I hope you reconsider playing it the same way and only the same way each time. Because it's so much fun, and so much richer, if you vary your Shepard even a little.

 

Even if you really feel you need to build the same Shepard, for instance, that is an avatar of you once again, as others suggested, next time change his origins, his background, his class and abilities. Think about small ways to change his decisionmaking that fit into that. How would this new Shepard react in the game's hundreds of scenarios? More kindly? More impatiently? More brutally? Etc.

 

I'd also suggest that next time you play through the trilogy, that you really explore the squadmate relationships. Consider a different LI, or simply take different team mixes with you on the different missions. The last time I did that, I found ME2 just freaking delightful. To take Legion and Tali on missions, or Kasumi and Thane (my favorites, the perfect mix of gravity and lightness), or Grunt and Garrus, etc., all these different combinations, made the game fresh and new for me.

 

I'm just finishing up an ME3 playthrough now, and this time my Femshep was more cautious and guarded, more renegade while still being honorable, and even knowing the 'beats' of the story, things changed incredibly for me in all these little ways. On Rannoch in the past, I've saved the Geth but doomed Tali and the Quarians, I've brokered peace with both, and this last time, I watched Tali shoot Legion (something that had never happened for me before in the game).

 

The game is sensitive enough that if you just change a few things about your character each time, it's going to continue to surprise you. And I really love that. And then you don't have to let that melancholy linger because this world is always waiting for you to return to it fresh and new and full of hope, just like Shepard.

[Spooner85]

Yeah, I totally understand, decided to end with Synthesis in the end, played the end over & over, each with a differnt choice to see if my Shepard would survive but no way, the Synthesis was still the best choice. But I can't believe I got so emotionally involved, I have the blues really bad after the ending.

I also bought the whole Trilogy in November & played them all through so the it left me with a Mass effect at the end. Epic trilogy but really sad ending. I hate feeling like this after a game, it was the same with Dragon Age 1 & 2....

[Abelas Forever!]

Yeah, I totally understand, decided to end with Synthesis in the end, played the end over & over, each with a differnt choice to see if my Shepard would survive but no way, the Synthesis was still the best choice. But I can't believe I got so emotionally involved, I have the blues really bad after the ending.

I also bought the whole Trilogy in November & played them all through so the it left me with a Mass effect at the end. Epic trilogy but really sad ending. I hate feeling like this after a game, it was the same with Dragon Age 1 & 2....

I'm not sure did I understood this correctly but in one of the endings Shepard is alive.

[Linkenski]

I've went through the five stages of grief with Mass Effect.

[spockjedi]

Yes, I did. Until MEHEM was released...

[The Real Pearl #2]

it was amplified because of this playlist

TL;DW:

Basically the detail analysis of the stupidity of the me3 narrative. 

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Every time I finished ME3, I felt sad, empty, directionless. I also felt somewhat angry because "what could have been". Even after the extended cut. And to tell you the truth, the crappy ending ruined any chance I had at buying any more Mass Effect games.

[Dani86]

I only played the series recently when all the dlc was already out including the extended cut. With all those pieces in place, I did not react as badly as others to the ending. Did I find the Catalyst's solution ridiculous and it's logic incredibly flawed? Yup. It was just silly story-telling, imo. But the way they did it and the so many other wonderful things about the games made me incredibly emotionally invested in the series. I was depressed when it ended but as others have mentioned, that's what fan fiction is for. You can go to either of the two major fan fic sites and find a story (or write a story) that can become your head-canon. The last breath scene of Shepard doesn't have to be his last breath. Bioware owns these characters in a money-making sense but they can't tell you how *your* Shepard's journey ends. Likewise, the other characters belong to us as well and we all get to decide what happens to them. 

[Iakus]

Bioware owns these characters in a money-making sense but they can't tell you how *your* Shepard's journey ends.  . 

Except that's exactly what they tried to do.

[oddball_bg]

Where to start, I just finished my second play through with all 3 Mass Effects as I type now because I felt something after completing all of them this time tonight.

 

The first day I purchased all three Mass Effects; I had my doubts being around a month and a half ago buying them mid November. (I know, shoot me now. I wished I played these games a lot sooner, I don't know why I didn't).

As I started up ME 1 I thought I'd give it a chance not knowing what an epic adventure I had coming my way.

I created my character to what resembled me with the best of my ability and was thrown on the Normandy clicking my first option towards Joker.

 

Long story short I completed ME1 in just under a week wanting so much more, so I headed on to ME2.

This took me a little bit longer to finish making sure I had everyone loyal towards me and listened to every bit of dialogue presented before me.

Again, after I finished that I headed over to ME 3 knowing that my journey will come to an end. I read reviews and listened how everyone judged the ending for what it was. It was time for me to decide.

 

Talking to the Catalyst at the end of the game making sure I understood my three choices standing before me I went ahead and destroyed all the Reapers.

As the piano played, faces of friends and my LI (Liara) flashed by me, it then hit me, this was pretty damn sad.

In the end; being indoctrinated in game or not I felt depressed the following week walking around the house doing what I had to do. I didn't know this game could have such an effect on me.

 

I had so much spare time on my hands (I finished Year 12 at school, this is why I finished the games quickly) just lying there at night pondering about my personal Shepard lying there in the rubble and taking that last breath before the screen cut to black.

 

I couldn't stand it anymore, I started again at ME 1 but played as my Shepard I already created. I thought that a second play through would make me fell better, just to get it out of my system.

I couldn't stand to make a brand new save file. I was literally attached to the this digital avatar of myself (hope that doesn't sound weird).

I once again played ME 1, 2, 3 again, however I bought all DLCs for ME 2 and 3 to expand my experience further and I regret nothing, money well spent!

I pretty much played through the Paragon path again, I couldn't stand being a Renegade. It was pretty much Deja Vu.

 

As I replayed ME 3 again I threw in a few mods from the Nexus being ThaneMod, MEHEM, Citadel Epilogue mod and Anderson Extended final conversation.

 

Today, finishing the trilogy again as I sat next to Anderson, talking about having a family I actually shed a few tears as he died I shamelessly admit. The game finished with MEHEM with my Shepard being alive placing Anderson name plaque on the wall and hugging Tali as my LI. I became red by holding my grief in. The party in Anderson's apartment came and went as I tried to let it last as long as I could. Then came the ending, my ending where we all boarded the Normandy letting me view it one last time.

 

And here I am now typing and awake at 3:30am still trying to get over it, I feel even worse than finishing the game the first time. If this sounds really silly or dumb then I have no shame, this game really touched me. Even if I entered a third play through with all three games tomorrow then I'm just going to repeat myself again.

Anyway, if you got this far then thanks for reading.

I'd like to hear from you guys and to know what you guys felt at the end of the game.

I also felt so many things with the ending.It touched me as well.I've made a similar tread,check it out if you want.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, the first time I finished ME3, it was at 3:30 a.m. and I had jumped into the Synthesis beam without quite understanding what I was doing (though I probably still would have picked Synthesis at the time), so my reaction wasn't so much depression or anger as just "Um...okay...*that's* how Mass Effect ends?"

 

I've always played games with quite a bit of headcanon, e.g. spacebarring past a few dialogue scenes here and there that I don't like or imagining motivations for Shepard that aren't explicitly spelled out, so I guess I made my peace with the endings that way. 

[Abelas Forever!]

I only played the series recently when all the dlc was already out including the extended cut. With all those pieces in place, I did not react as badly as others to the ending. Did I find the Catalyst's solution ridiculous and it's logic incredibly flawed? Yup. It was just silly story-telling, imo. But the way they did it and the so many other wonderful things about the games made me incredibly emotionally invested in the series. I was depressed when it ended but as others have mentioned, that's what fan fiction is for. You can go to either of the two major fan fic sites and find a story (or write a story) that can become your head-canon. The last breath scene of Shepard doesn't have to be his last breath. Bioware owns these characters in a money-making sense but they can't tell you how *your* Shepard's journey ends. Likewise, the other characters belong to us as well and we all get to decide what happens to them. 

It is confirmed that Shepard didn't die if you got that breathing scene.

I can imagine what will happen to my PC when the game ends but only if there isn't anything in the game that prevents it happening such as Shepard died for example. I could imagine or even write fan fiction of how my Shepard survived the synthesis ending but when I play the game my Shepard would still die at the end of the game if she would choose synthesis and because of that I can't decide what will happen to my PC or other characters after the ending if it wouldn't be possible in the game such as Thane being alive.

I think one of the problem with the ending is that people who wanted a happy ending didn't get it. It's possible that Shepard didn't die so why not make a scene where she/he will meet her/his companions for example?

[JJ Likeaprayer]

That's why ME3 will stay in history forever. When I'm 88 years old,and I think back on my life,and I'll say:Damn,that's the game I'm still so so so grateful to have played,thank you God! To have witnessed and been a part of the action of a true hero,I'm still oozing over by this proud and respect feeling that ME3 gave me today...again,thank you BioWare,sooooo much!

[Iakus]

It is confirmed that Shepard didn't die if you got that breathing scene.
 

It's been confirmed that the breath indicates Shepard might survive

[Abelas Forever!]

It's been confirmed that the breath indicates Shepard might survive

Who has said that?

Because at least this has been said:

http://forum.bioware.../#entry11073030

[Iakus]

Who has said that?

Because at least this has been said:

http://forum.bioware.../#entry11073030

Gimme time and I'll dig up the youtube video of "It could be SHepard's last breath"  and the h"Ray of hope" comments

 

But in the meantime:

 

This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct.  Says nothing.  Shepard is still down, helpless, with no aide nearby.  We don't even get to see Shepard's face.  And after we see SHepard literally walking into a fireball, the implications there are not good.

 

As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

 

"Hope".  "Not certainty".  An important distinction.  It is not certain that Shepard will survive long enough to be rescued.  But in every other ending, we got front row seats to watching Shepard getting disintegrated.  That is "certainty that Shepard is dead.

[Abelas Forever!]

Gimme time and I'll dig up the youtube video of "It could be SHepard's last breath"  and the h"Ray of hope" comments

 

But in the meantime:

 

This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct.  Says nothing.  Shepard is still down, helpless, with no aide nearby.  We don't even get to see Shepard's face.  And after we see SHepard literally walking into a fireball, the implications there are not good.

 

As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

 

"Hope".  "Not certainty".  An important distinction.  It is not certain that Shepard will survive long enough to be rescued.  But in every other ending, we got front row seats to watching Shepard getting disintegrated.  That is "certainty that Shepard is dead.

Take your time with the video but the whole quote from that post is

 

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

To me that pretty much means that Shepard is alive because the LI didn't want to believe that Shepard was dead and the final scene confirmed that the LI was right. I understand the hope thing in a way that there is a chance that Shepard and LI might meet again but that is not certain. Shepard could still be alive even though they wouldn't ever meet each other again.

[Iakus]

 

To me that pretty much means that Shepard is alive because the LI didn't want to believe that Shepard was dead and the final scene confirmed that the LI was right. I understand the hope thing in a way that there is a chance that Shepard and LI might meet again but that is not certain. Shepard could still be alive even though they wouldn't ever meet each other again.

The breath scene alone means Shepard is "not dead" (yet)  The LI being incongruously Force Sensitive doesn't add to that.  It's just a wtf-scene that makes no sense.  And even if the LI "is not ready to believe Shepard is dead" how does that help Shepard's predicament?

 

Will the Power of Love sustain Shepard through his/her grievous injuries which appear to be so bad they can't even show Shepard's face on the screen?

 

Will the LI's "I BELIEVE!" attitude get the Normandy to the Citadel any faster?  (remember, the relays aren't working, it will take hours at least to return to the Citadel, and that's assuming there's a garden world literally next door to the Sol system)

 

Does the LI Force Sensitivity granted clairvoyance enough to divine Shepard's location (assuming Shep hasn't bled out, succumbed to shock, froze, suffocated, etc)?

 

The EC scene makes no more sense than the original, and is essentially an additional slap on the face given it's a DLC meant to provide "clarity and closure" This scene does neither.  Like the Normandy farewell scene, it provides nothing but "feels"

[Abelas Forever!]

The breath scene alone means Shepard is "not dead" (yet)  The LI being incongruously Force Sensitive doesn't add to that.  It's just a wtf-scene that makes no sense.  And even if the LI "is not ready to believe Shepard is dead" how does that help Shepard's predicament?

 

Will the Power of Love sustain Shepard through his/her grievous injuries which appear to be so bad they can't even show Shepard's face on the screen?

 

Will the LI's "I BELIEVE!" attitude get the Normandy to the Citadel any faster?  (remember, the relays aren't working, it will take hours at least to return to the Citadel, and that's assuming there's a garden world literally next door to the Sol system)

 

Does the LI Force Sensitivity granted clairvoyance enough to divine Shepard's location (assuming Shep hasn't bled out, succumbed to shock, froze, suffocated, etc)?

 

The EC scene makes no more sense than the original, and is essentially an additional slap on the face given it's a DLC meant to provide "clarity and closure" This scene does neither.  Like the Normandy farewell scene, it provides nothing but "feels"

LI believing that Shepard isn't dead only means that they feel that Shepard is alive.  It doesn't help Shepard because it would take too much time for Normandy to get back to earth. I suspect that it will took years. However you can get the breathing scene only when your EMS is very high which means that there are people on earth that can save Shepard.

 

I would actually like to know why they didn't make it more clear that Shepard will survive because I think it's quite clear that he/she survived if you see the breathing scene well at least now that they have confirmed that he/she is in that scene and it means that he/she is alive and that LI believes that Shepard survived and that there is hope that they might see again.