57 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyJaneGrey]

Yeeees?

What is this aura of malice I feel? I-I regret nothing!

 

Just checking.  No malice here.

 

I let Leliana do her job (i.e. kill 'im) every time but one so I could see her softened ending.  I felt like it made my Inquisitor look like such a moron too.

 

"Why, no, OF COURSE I don't notice that same messenger running up to you four times; let me just keep ignoring you until after I go do the mage recruitment mission and see you all tortured and scary and then can come up with some reason to tell you not to kill him." 

[wright1978]

Not sure what else violent nightmares she tries to push away would imply...

 

The left hand is harder, harsher, faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse but sends them away faster."

 

Faith fallen in folly is a judgement, not a neutral assessment by Cole so i'm not sure i trust anything he says.

She has worse dreams according to him. You are the one interpreting that as violent and traumatic.

The second part doesn't suggest she tries to push to them away imo, but rather they don't affect her.

 

My Warden lover is happy with the inquisitor's guidance. Hardened Leliana as divine shows she's able to use her hard edged bardic gifts and

'rededicate the Chantry to the principle of charity', her reforms or taking the position hardly shows a loss of her faith.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I harden her every time in DA:O and in this game.

 

I just prefer her that way.

 

Never in DA:O, but I did in DA:I.

 

Adored the hardened version, so that for me everyday. What a great divine she makes.

 

Adore? Love her! She's so hot when she's cutting loose. ^^

 

I hardened her in my playthrough. It didn't fit her character of DA:O, but it certainly fit her character in DA:I. She's already hardend when you first meet her in DA:I imo.

 

Exactly.

 

We can't forget that Leliana's past isn't a happy one. She was betrayed, captured, tortured and raped before she even met the HoF, which could lead to even more heartbreak depending on the playthrough. Romancing her and then doing the ultimate sacrifice is like kicking a puppy. Or how about killing her over the Urn of Sacred Ashes? She joins up with Mother Dorothea after the Blight and stays by her side as she becomes Divine... only to lose her, too.

I'm surprised she's still as nice and sane as she is.

 

Leliana becoming a cold, cynical player of the game fits her perfectly in this context. All those cute singing and flirting in DA:O? That was all a facade, to mask her inner pain and turmoil. She was hearing voices telling her to help the HoF and believed it was the Maker. All that crap until the archdemon was finally dead would give anyone PTSD.

 

Hardened Leliana at least has no more doubts and doesn't feel guilty anymore.

 

P.S. If she was a LI, I'd make sure she'd get a truly happy end though.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

The left hand is harder, harsher, faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse but sends them away faster."

Faith fallen in folly is a judgement, not a neutral assessment by Cole so i'm not sure i trust anything he says.
She has worse dreams according to him. You are the one interpreting that as violent and traumatic.
The second part doesn't suggest she tries to push to them away imo, but rather they don't affect her.

My Warden lover is happy with the inquisitor's guidance. Hardened Leliana as divine shows she's able to use her hard edged bardic gifts and
'rededicate the Chantry to the principle of charity', her reforms or taking the position hardly shows a loss of her faith.

An assessment by a mind reading spirit who feels people's thoughts and emotions. He's literally saying what she's feeling. It's why he's frequently used as a character tool to get into all the other character's heads and flesh out their inner turmoil.

'The dreams get worse' is never going to sound like a good, healthy thing. Bad dreams are nightmares. Given everything she's been through, nightmares are a pretty likely sign of trauma.

Unhardened Leliana sounds a lot happier and healthier to me. Do what you want, but frankly I can't harden her knowing that.

[errantknight]

I hardened her in my playthrough. It didn't fit her character of DA:O, but it certainly fit her character in DA:I. She's already hardend when you first meet her in DA:I imo.

Yes, she is. Regardless of how the warden affected her, Leliana will do *anything* for someone she loves. She did what Marjolene wanted, what the warden wanted, what Justinina wanted and now what the inquisitor wants.

 

Hmm. Never really looked at it like that before. Regardless of my personal feelings about freeing the mages entirely, I'm not sure that a person who will go that far for love should actually be in such a powerful position.

 

Anyway, Justinia hardened her again. It's up to you to unharden her or reinforce that behavior.

[hong]

Reposting something I posted just a few hours ago:

Hardened Leliana makes more sense to me than softened, given the historical period that forms the basis for Thedas: the late Renaissance/early Reformation. This was the world of the Borgias, the de Medicis, Machiavelli, and Ezio Auditore da Firenze. It's the kind of world where you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and hardened Leli fits right into that. Besides, when hardened, she is a classic femme fatale, and what's not to like about that?

[Amirit]

Soften Leliana is nice but softening is based on one single choice at the beginning of the game and so far I can not justify any interference in Leliana's deeds at that point. We are nobody, just a spared prisoner, yet we are supposed to tell to the Left Hand of the Divine how to handle her people? I do not think so. Hence, no soften Leliana for me.

[cronshaw]

I didn't harden her 

but hardened Lilliana is pretty badass.

[Asakti]

To be honest, I kinda want to punch the Divine in the face.  Yeah, she is all sweetness and light in-game (apparently), but if you say, 'softened' Leliana after Marjolene, then the Divine undoes all that and turns Leliana into her ...well, basically, hired thug.  Yes, it might be needed with the 'game' and all that, but it basically doing away with anything we actually did in DAO.

 

Hardened!Leliana in DAO makes more sense (and in some ways the 'better' decision) with the way Leliana turns in DA:I.  But, eh.  I 'soften' Leliana in DAI, as it is kind of 'fixing' the situation. 

[GenericEnemy]

Unharden her, because I'm more fond of characters I like actually growing as people instead of going over the deep end

[wright1978]

An assessment by a mind reading spirit who feels people's thoughts and emotions. He's literally saying what she's feeling. It's why he's frequently used as a character tool to get into all the other character's heads and flesh out their inner turmoil.

'The dreams get worse' is never going to sound like a good, healthy thing. Bad dreams are nightmares. Given everything she's been through, nightmares are a pretty likely sign of trauma.

Unhardened Leliana sounds a lot happier and healthier to me. Do what you want, but frankly I can't harden her knowing that.

 

Disagree Cole's has an agenda like any other character imo. I don't take anything he says as the complete truth but rather his interpretation of it. It is an interesting insight but not neutral imo.

 

Everyone has bad dreams. Hardened may very well have more bad dreams than softened but she's better able to cope with them because of her hardened state.

I don't accept the suggestion that bad dreams mean she's particularly traumatised.

 

I think it's a lot healthier for her to be hardened  when she's a spymaster or Reforming divine facing unrest. As to happier i think both versions are happy because they've come to terms with who they are.

Softened might be  sweeter, more diplomatic, friendly which i might make her if i planned for her to leave the inquisition and not become divine.

 

I don't think we are going to agree though, but it's been fun debating.

[synnerman]

Honestly, I love hard Lelliana and she is the Divine in my play through. She is the only candidate who mentioned bringing Elves and Dwarves into the Chantry. I'll stand behind her all the way.

[Zombie_Alexis]

Hardened Leliana is terrifying. I like her better softened. That said, I don't like her as Divine either way since girlfriend is too easily swayed by other people.

[line_genrou]

Never in DA:O, but I did in DA:I.

 

 

Adore? Love her! She's so hot when she's cutting loose. ^^

 

 

Exactly.

 

We can't forget that Leliana's past isn't a happy one. She was betrayed, captured, tortured and raped before she even met the HoF, which could lead to even more heartbreak depending on the playthrough. Romancing her and then doing the ultimate sacrifice is like kicking a puppy. Or how about killing her over the Urn of Sacred Ashes? She joins up with Mother Dorothea after the Blight and stays by her side as she becomes Divine... only to lose her, too.

I'm surprised she's still as nice and sane as she is.

 

Leliana becoming a cold, cynical player of the game fits her perfectly in this context. All those cute singing and flirting in DA:O? That was all a facade, to mask her inner pain and turmoil. She was hearing voices telling her to help the HoF and believed it was the Maker. All that crap until the archdemon was finally dead would give anyone PTSD.

 

Hardened Leliana at least has no more doubts and doesn't feel guilty anymore.

 

P.S. If she was a LI, I'd make sure she'd get a truly happy end though.

Agree with this completely. The hardened version of her seems  more realistic to her character than the soft version. Also it's more tragic.

[Wodan Yrmir]

wait you mean that we need too watch her on wartable when you send her? i thought it was too watch your action and what you say too her for softing her up or harden -.- this get getting way to much complicated argh

[LadyJaneGrey]

To be honest, I kinda want to punch the Divine in the face.  Yeah, she is all sweetness and light in-game (apparently), but if you say, 'softened' Leliana after Marjolene, then the Divine undoes all that and turns Leliana into her ...well, basically, hired thug.  Yes, it might be needed with the 'game' and all that, but it basically doing away with anything we actually did in DAO.

 

Hardened!Leliana in DAO makes more sense (and in some ways the 'better' decision) with the way Leliana turns in DA:I.  But, eh.  I 'soften' Leliana in DAI, as it is kind of 'fixing' the situation. 

 

Putting aside the TEMPLE GOES BOOM necessity, I appreciate that we never meet Justinia or get a chance to really prod her motivations, methods, and exactly how much she knew and expected Leliana (and others) to do.  It gives the player much more freedom to extrapolate/project/whatever for role-playing purposes.

 

Thumbs up to the writers.

 

@ Zombie_Alexis Even softened Leliana scares the snot out of me.  When she's all "and I will MAKE them change," I wanted a "and what happens to those who don't accept all your dictates immediately?" dialog option.  It seemed like a great way to get all the other races more alienated.

 

(Yes, I know that softened Leliana as Divine seems to end well.  If that doesn't break your suspension of disbelief, more power to you.  I can't buy it.)

[Xx Serissia xX]

Her craziness amuses me so, I always harden her.  

[KaiserShep]

The real problem I have with softening Leliana is that I don't really have a compelling reason to interfere with her decision. This ain't a court of law, but she apparently has proof of Butler's betrayal. If he was just feeding information, that's one thing, but he apparently killed someone as well, so have at it, girlfriend. The Herald isn't formally the leader just yet, so these sorts of decisions are kind of at the discretion of the leading members most closely involved, in this case Leliana, since it was her agent that was taken out. You wanna assassinate the enemies of the Inquisition, you go right ahead. Just don't paint any pictures for me, m'kay?

[bluonblu]

I was trying to keep her from becoming wholly ruthless (her single-minded focus is scary enough at the start) but I must've missed my chance when not objecting to the proposed retaliation to the Butler problem. (And even if I had known this would be a pivotal point... I agree with KaiserShep: at this point, it was Leliana's call how she managed her part of the organisation. My Inquisitor was a recently released prisoner and somewhat reluctant ally...) 

 

Odd (but not unrealistic) how one missed step can derail everything. Later on I consciously held back from the "darkish grey" choices (during the War table missions), but she still killed Sister Natalie, even though I tried to talk her out of it.  

 

Looks like it's hardened Leliana for my first playthrough. Oh well  

[Jestina]

It felt natural in DA:O, because it took some time to convince her that the chantry was rubbish...and that she should revel in being a rogue. I'd have to load up DA:O to check my save, but it seems like she had some kind of traumatic brain injury that completely changed her personality. Being as she's a middle aged woman by the time of DA:I she should be set in her ways. People don't really change much at all after teens/young adult. A betrayal option would be nice if you go against how her personality was defined in DA:O.

[Kimarous]

Softening/unhardening Leliana feels like undoing a past mistake. My Warden had romanced Leliana, but while she did bring light into his life with her own perspective of the Maker, he convinced Leliana to be herself because he thought it was healthier than punishing herself for her day-to-day actions. When she eventually left to serve the Divine as her Left Hand, he kinda felt like it was his fault for "encouraging" her shadier side. "Softened" Leliana more or less returns to being the woman he fell in love with...

 

Although it kinda becomes a no-win scenario for my Warden, since she's my choice for Divine, thus severing any romantic contact between the two (without risking a Chantry-shaking scandal).

[errantknight]

To be honest, I kinda want to punch the Divine in the face.  Yeah, she is all sweetness and light in-game (apparently), but if you say, 'softened' Leliana after Marjolene, then the Divine undoes all that and turns Leliana into her ...well, basically, hired thug.  Yes, it might be needed with the 'game' and all that, but it basically doing away with anything we actually did in DAO.

 

Hardened!Leliana in DAO makes more sense (and in some ways the 'better' decision) with the way Leliana turns in DA:I.  But, eh.  I 'soften' Leliana in DAI, as it is kind of 'fixing' the situation. 

What's worse, it becomes apparent that Justinia was quite aware of the effect her duties were having on Leliana. I'm not saying that wasn't a job that was needed, but...

[Big I]

The real problem I have with softening Leliana is that I don't really have a compelling reason to interfere with her decision.

 

Killing Butler is wasteful. If he's a traitor, he should be questioned or tortured to give up his contacts and employers. Alternatively, he should be used to feed misinformation to the enemies of the Inquisition.

 

If you tell her not to kill Butler and then pick the bottom right option, you say that Butler is a resource to be used. There's the rationale to interfere.

[shajs]

Wait, what? Who's Butler? ...ah.

 

I just finished Leliana's "Justinia left me a message" quest and she killed Natalie despite me picking the "don't do it" option. Shocked me, alright! Apparently I've been missing stuff and/or picking "wrong" choices all along... now I'm a bit sad, because I imported a Warden who romanced her, and with Leliana changing like that between DA:O and DA:I -- they're not going to be happy together anymore. I'm not even making Leliana the Divine (because I already supported Cassandra on the wartable, oops) so I guess they would've had a shot. (that said, I haven't finished the game yet so... idk really.)

 

In any case, I don't like this new Leliana. I mean, she's pretty awesome, but it just feels like Marjolaine was right all along. Dammit, girl. You're breaking my Warden's heart.

[Reguire]

I didn't know anything about this softened/hardened thing. I told her to let Natalie go but the b**** said she is an enemy of the inquisition and cut her throat. If I had the option I would open a rift up her a**. Even if I like her you can't deny your lord's order.