62 Antworten in diesem Thema

[known_hero]

Boohoo, I don't have singularity or immunity so I can't beat the game. Waaaaah! Stop your whining! Man up, grab your berries and get it done!

J/K

The Engineer is definitely a weakling. If the Krogan aren't screwing you over with their berserker rush then it's the immunity spamming soldiers showing no respect for the basic laws of a cover shooter by running through your bullets and blasting you in the face while shouting "their killing everyone". Who am I killing? I can't do anything because I'm waiting for my neural shock to recharge.

The Engineer is the quintessential thinking man's class. He's a glass cannon without the high powered offense. So he's pretty much a glass dud. The worst of both worlds. He does have some weapons though. Neural Shock, Sabotage, Marksman and Hacking are your best friends.

[KroganChiken]

I've just read a lot of opinions about poor Engineers and I completely disagree!

 

"Weak"? "Glass cannon"?! No way!

 

If you raise it correctly - especially in ME1 - you'll have a real bad@$$ character! Trust me: at the end, I had a shield level so high that in the most cruel battles the first going down was Wrex or Ash! I've beaten Saren only using my gun, for real!

 

My gun! Not the assault-rifle nor the shotgun!

[known_hero]

I've just read a lot of opinions about poor Engineers and I completely disagree!
 
"Weak"? "Glass cannon"?! No way!
 
If you raise it correctly - especially in ME1 - you'll have a real bad@$$ character! Trust me: at the end, I had a shield level so high that in the most cruel battles the first going down was Wrex or Ash! I've beaten Saren only using my gun, for real!
 
My gun! Not the assault-rifle nor the shotgun!

Every class is super strong at the end when you equip all of the high levels mods and you have nearly the whole skill tree maxed out. It's the first part of the game that's tough. There's nothing you can say that will change the fact that the Engineer is the weakest class in the game. It's actually weak on a fundamental level: lacks defense and biotics= two of the most important aspects of the game.

Believe it or not your gun(assuming you mean pistol) is actually the strongest weapon in the game.

[KroganChiken]

Not agree.

 

At the beginning if you choose the right team the problem doesn't exist. And - I repeat - if you have done a correct distribution of your skill point you have a shield level strong enough and good for every situation.

 

And, by the way, I'm actually at the end of my nineth run of the trilogy. So, you see, I believe having (at least) some knowledge about Classes and their combat system.

 

You say: "Engineer is weak!"?

Ok, but is only your opinion. Don't say it like could be a sort of axiom, please!

[EviiiL Jus7iiCe]

I think sentinel is also pretty hard on insanity if u start with a lv1 character... I never tried engineer lv1 insanity tho. All chars without immunity are a pain in the ass at the beginning on higher difficulties actually ( when it comes to survivability).

[fraggle]

I just started my 2nd playthrough as an Engineer on Hardcore (my 1st run was Soldier on Casual) and played through Eden Prime yesterday. I really hope I'll manage the whole game

[sjsharp2011]

Most people do agree that ME1 Engineer is the weakest class.  Biotics are usually better than tech and Engineer is the only character without a quality defensive power.  Might have been different if Engineer could use better armor.  I don't know who would have recommended a shotgun engineer for ME1, it really doesn't help.  Most people would recommend Barrier if you want defense, or Assault Rifle if you want more DPS.
 
I do like Soldier the best overall in the series, but I still like most of the other classes too.

Yeah soldier and Adept are my favourite classes

[Quarian Master Race]

No, Engineer is the master race.

[fraggle]

Meanwhile I progressed quite a bit through the game, I only have a couple of side missions, Virmire and Ilos left with my Engineer.

I was afraid at the beginning to be honest because of everything I read here. But boy, is this class fun! I love AI Hacking, Sabotage and of course Neural Shock. Damping is useful too sometimes. I use the Assault Rifle for most Synthetics and the Pistol mainly for Husks and Thorian Creepers.

Of course I died a couple of times (it's only my 2nd run of ME1 in general and 1st on a high difficulty), the Krogan after getting Liara out of her trap giving me the most deaths, but other than that it's really cool and enjoyable. Can't wait to either play Sentinel or Adept in my next (Insanity) run

[Domar]

Whatever class is "weakest" is more fun, as it makes the game more challenging and satisfactory when you come out on top.

[TheGiantBreast]

@Fraggle, most class discussions revolve around insanity. If you haven't experienced constantly getting one shotted by rockets, shotguns, snipers, biotic ball (incapacitation=death), on insanity then you should preface everything you say with that.

 

@Domar: This is actually what I came to realize, moving through the game (partially into feros) with soldier. It was much less engaging than with the junky engineer kit.

 

I just finished my last playthrough with the game, with.... an ENGINEER. I think you form an attachment to the class/voice actor you go through first. Jennifer Hale was great, but renegade responses in this game are largely dumb and I didn't much like her paragon. This game I maxed out both charm and intimidate first, so I suppose I was even more handicapped than previous playthroughs. 

 

My advice for those considering engineer from someone who has gone through 3 times on insanity from scratch:

-All points into pistols and conversation skill of choice until they are maxed

-Next get neural shock and engineer class talent maxed (medic is way more useful than operative), neural shock for me was the most satisfying ability in the game (immunity organics are the worst) , should have had a much lower cooldown though

-Krogans get murdered by polonium/chemical ammo. switch them in to deal with them and other beefy organics.

-keep around tungesten 7. shredder 7, polonium 7

-shut down all turrets and collosi with sabotage

-Purchase best armor and pistol you can, throw in shield boost mods early game, 1 energized plate + 1 medical exoskeleton later

 

Over 300 hundred hours into this game, and still got a rush from the end sequence. Really awesome! Now I'll play the rest of the trilogy, hopefully only one playthrough each, I need to do something more productive with my time!

[fraggle]

@Fraggle, most class discussions revolve around insanity. If you haven't experienced constantly getting one shotted by rockets, shotguns, snipers, biotic ball (incapacitation=death), on insanity then you should preface everything you say with that.

 

Uh, not sure what you wanna say there...

[Domar]

@TheGiantBreast - Glad to hear you've come to realize that. The accomplishment and merit of beating the game is reduced in proportion to the extent one exploits the design weaknesses.

 

If you do the opposite on purpose, finding yourselves in situations like the final battle on Therum with the knowledge of being rather poorly equipped for the task will increase the tension in it and, as you have to fight frantically to survive, the excitement and satisfaction of pulling through is all the greater. In this way, engineer might be the best overall to play, by far.

 

I always play the game sticking to a set of house rules in order not to make it a breeze. Insanity mode is one of them.

[Vazgen]

Engineer is my favorite class in the entire trilogy. And it is entirely possible to play without dying much on Insanity, you just have to be careful and willing to sometimes abuse the environment and/or enemy AI. Therum fight is one of the toughest fights in the game (if not the toughest) but it is quite possible to do early on, as evidenced by capn233's video.

[TheGiantBreast]

Engineer is my favorite class in the entire trilogy. And it is entirely possible to play without dying much on Insanity, you just have to be careful and willing to sometimes abuse the environment and/or enemy AI. Therum fight is one of the toughest fights in the game (if not the toughest) but it is quite possible to do early on, as evidenced by capn233's video.

 

I have actually found that Therum battle to be super easy with engineer: neural shock dumpsters the krogan. I've gone to therum first on all of my playthroughs. You know what are the hard battles? I would say that the toughest battles are all the battles on the side planets before therum (the system you relay to before going to artemis tau, Hades Gamma I think). I think one is a base full of smugglers. another is the husk mine/cave. The other tough as hell battle is the frost battle where you are clearing out the geth incursion, the one with two geth primes, man is that a hard battle, took me probably 10 reloads.

[capn233]

The Battlemaster fight on Therum is commonly referenced as a difficult fight, and since I also like to go their first I tailored the build progressions I recommended in the threads I made for fighting him early.  I agree that the fight against him is easier if at least one of the squad or the player has a CC power that works on him.  If you haven't, then you are punished fairly severely.  Years ago when I did my first insanity run from level 1 as a soldier, I took Tali and Garrus on that mission and it was quite painful.  Granted, there were other tricks and build strategies I hadn't learned yet.

 

Kaidan should also be able to get to NS by early Therum, meaning any class and build should have at least one option to CC him.  I took Tali and Wrex so there wouldn't be another squadmate with CC mainly for demonstration purposes.

[Domar]

Well, if you're adequately teamed and equipped for it, I guess no battle is that difficult.

 

But if the game becomes a breeze, it will be less engaging and entertaining, as TheGiantBreast noted. That's why it could be a good thing not to tailor the builds etc. Then your fate will be determined more by your tactical skills, instead of your maths. Also, considering that this is a roleplaying game, taking certain steps in preparation for what one knows to come up next is not roleplaying the game, since the team one's handling does not know what they're in for and should not be able to take those steps. Letting the choice of which team member to come along for the mission and his/her talent build be determined by chance (e.g. dice), for example, enhances this other aspect of the game, which could be a lot of fun, too.

 

I'm just mentioning a different way to experience the game, but all ways are good, of course, as long as it does not become boring.

 

I agree that some of the battles you encounter on the side missions may be the toughest in the whole game, especially early on. Smugglers in their hideouts, husks in a mine and the geth incursion have been mentioned. Taking on the biotics who've kidnapped someone aboard a ship is also a real headache if you face them head on without at least one biotic in your own team. Conversely, if you have little more than biotic powers at your disposal for the final battle against the drones on the moon, then you'd better be a master at dodging rockets.

 

My most memorable fights so far have come from being poorly equipped for the task. One of them was the final battle on Therum early on in my ME experience (so not at max difficulty, either) early on in the game (poor armors etc) and no CC powers available, as far as I can recall. Think I must have reloaded that battle over thirty times ("Christ! This is impossible!" ). Another was the gauntlet through a room full of angry Rachni on Noveria. I thought my character at the time would never manage to get out of there, his career literally ending there. But, boy, the thrill of frantic fighting to finally come through! 

 

 

[capn233]

In general I would agree that the side missions are harder than the plot worlds early game, mainly since side missions are largely organics with immunity spam and the main missions are mostly geth.  But since they don't usually have many higher ranked enemies, they are usually vulnerable to lower levels of cc.  Because of immunity spam and your low dps at early stages of the game, the fights are drawn out and there is basically more opportunity to be killed due to length.  Some friends I have discussed this with consider this to be difficulty through tedium.

 

Geth Incursion isn't available until after you have completed a plot world already, IIRC.  IMO on a level 1 insanity run it is leveling through and completing the first plot world where the most difficulty lies.  At this point you will be able to afford at least one spectre weapon if you hadn't already purchased it, and you will have a decent amount of talent points.

 

I suppose if someone wants to challenge themselves they can do whatever they want.  Including many side missions before the first plot world or taking suboptimal squadmates.  Husk rush missions like Abandoned Mine is pretty tricky for a non-biotic Shepard at this stage of the game since CC is very limited pre-Liara, especially if you were to go without Kaidan.

[TheGiantBreast]

The only easy time I had against the geth incursion snow world was with a vanguard, a playthrough I abandoned shortly after because I just felt invincible without much effort.

 

I've gone through it 3 times with engineer, 1 time with sentinel, and each time I would reload minimum 4 times I would guess. Even with spectre weapons. I was never able to burst the geth prime down fast enough my warp using characters always seemed to die before it was safe to dps them

 

As for thos biotics on the ship, I always have had damping so I did alright. Yet every time I would die once, first time through trying to rush. That timer freaks me out and I die right off the bat.

[themikefest]

I found the fight on Therum to be easy regardless of the difficulty.

[Domar]

@capn233 - "Difficulty through tedium"?! Sounds like your friends just cannot wait to kill the opposition in the game or be killed by it, otherwise they´ll die from boredom.

 

In my experience, the sidemissions tend to be more difficult than the main missions especially early on in the game because the opposition is relatively stronger in all respects, so much stronger that fights often end quickly from the "critical failures" of my characters; and when the fights take longer, the probability of failure is higher than at some other point of game time. Later on in the game, through the normal updates of the squad, the strengths are more even, and then the fights can take long before my characters emerge victorious or fail once more. Later on in the game still and the balance has tipped decidedly in favor of the squad, if properly updated power-wise, making the fights usually shorter again due to the power tilt in the other direction.

 

I'd like to stress my point again that the "optimal" character build or squad depends on what one wants to get from playing this game. If one wants to be able to cruise through it, no matter what, then some tailoring the build for most protective armor etc is optimal. Fair enough. But if one wants the game to be a thriller, and make the achievement of pulling through really count for something, then utilizing every trick in the game book for an advantage in power is not optimal.

 

 

@TheGiantBreast - Yes, if you have damping available on that ship, then things get easier there. But imagine having Shep as a standard soldier with Ashley in the same capacity and Wrex without throw or stasis power in that place. The timer doesn't help. Some settings are really tough.

 

 

@themikefest - Tested the Therum scenario with the squad setup mentioned above early on in the game? You have nothing but weak weapons with which to stop the Krogan when he charges and he won't go down quickly.

[Vazgen]

It's not a matter of optimal builds. In fact, I find playing a non-optimal build in ME1 to be more tedious than playing an optimal one.

ME1 Insanity is tedious. It is also not as challenging, most battles come to filling bullet sponges with bullets until they drop dead (use chemical rounds if they regenerate). Biotics are overpowered, tech powers focus on support for gunfire which lacks punch when enemy uses Immunity all the time. Mako segments are boring too since the cannon kills mooks in 1-2 shots and wastes a ton of shots on bosses. 

ME2 Insanity is the hardest of the trilogy but it is not as tedious as ME1. It requires more tactics, different protection layers make the squad more important and somewhat slow shared cooldowns make the player to choose carefully before unleashing each power.

ME3 Insanity is easier but it is definitely not tedious. Power combos make the player much more effective against groups and improved agility allows to spend less time exposed to gunfire. But the number of enemies, flashy visuals and improved enemy AI make it interesting even with an "optimal" build.

[themikefest]

 

@themikefest - Tested the Therum scenario with the squad setup mentioned above early on in the game? You have nothing but weak weapons with which to stop the Krogan when he charges and he won't go down quickly.

That's fine. I still had no problem with the mission

[Domar]

It's not a matter of optimal builds. In fact, I find playing a non-optimal build in ME1 to be more tedious than playing an optimal one.
ME1 Insanity is tedious. It is also not as challenging, most battles come to filling bullet sponges with bullets until they drop dead (use chemical rounds if they regenerate). Biotics are overpowered, tech powers focus on support for gunfire which lacks punch when enemy uses Immunity all the time. Mako segments are boring too since the cannon kills mooks in 1-2 shots and wastes a ton of shots on bosses.
ME2 Insanity is the hardest of the trilogy but it is not as tedious as ME1. It requires more tactics, different protection layers make the squad more important and somewhat slow shared cooldowns make the player to choose carefully before unleashing each power.
ME3 Insanity is easier but it is definitely not tedious. Power combos make the player much more effective against groups and improved agility allows to spend less time exposed to gunfire. But the number of enemies, flashy visuals and improved enemy AI make it interesting even with an "optimal" build.

So you basically prefer to finish a fight in this marvelous game world with one bullet instead of two. Fine. I like to work a little more and extend the moment of risk and game setting.

That's fine. I still had no problem with the mission

Impressive. Find any challenge in this game at all?

[Elhanan]

Am currently re-playing an Engn Shep campaign, as this class can seemingly take anyone along, while other classes are encouraged to choose those Companions which best suit their abilities. I prefer versatility in a class design, and the Engn is fast becoming a fave.