53 réponses à ce sujet

[Drunk Dutch Dude]

Hey,

I would like to start a new mage playthrough as a non-KE, I wonder about it's viability however. Is the Rift Mage and Necromancer truly as bad as people say? I have heard the Rift mage is alright on damage when dealing with large groups of enemies, but that it simply sucks on small packs and bosses. Necromancer is supposedly worthless on both matters. Does anyone of you know if these two specs can shine in Nightmare mode, and not be completely worthless compared to rogues or warriors? I like to be able to contribute.

Ps sorry if my english is bad, not my best subject.

[MasqureMan]

Well I can't say to their effectiveness in Nightmare mode, but given that a Rift mage can get their weakness to reduce enemy damage by 30%, I would think they have to be pretty good. 

[Exalted_One]

well i don't think their useless but they still got problems/bugs that the KE just don't have. The Rift Mage got a bug with their weakness debuff that if you try to refresh it will fall of the mob your fighting and wont be applied again or something if i remember correctly and thereby you wont receive the mana back from your other passive. The Necromnacer got a bug with their WB spell that makes it only hit for 200% damage when it should do 600% damage if detonated also the necro got some mana problems but those i have found you can live with.  

[Wolfgrey666]

Hey,

I would like to start a new mage playthrough as a non-KE, I wonder about it's viability however. Is the Rift Mage and Necromancer truly as bad as people say? I have heard the Rift mage is alright on damage when dealing with large groups of enemies, but that it simply sucks on small packs and bosses. Necromancer is supposedly worthless on both matters. Does anyone of you know if these two specs can shine in Nightmare mode, and not be completely worthless compared to rogues or warriors? I like to be able to contribute.

Ps sorry if my english is bad, not my best subject.

 

Rift Mages usually make up for any lack of smaller group/single control with the spells they usually pair with. Fire Mine comes to mind. They have high regen and great control. Even if they don't end up being the main damage they more than make up for it. But they are still crazy good. And hell people do make them into dps machines. Crazy self detonating mages.

 

Necromancers take a lot more work than what you would expect. Fear mechanics are iffy in this game, spirit mark is buggy as hell and walking bomb isn't cheap. It has great synergy with Static Cage, Fire Wall, and Walking Bomb. While Fear may be odd it certainly isn't useless. You can use it to shutdown enemies quickly and split them up to focus certain targets. In fact i highly recommend if you use Horror or any fear mechanics that you have party members good at single target damage/burst for those priority targets.

 

Rift Mage is the stronger of the two , Necromancer just requires a lot more work to make things right. But i will not lie, the chaos is fun with Necro.

[Exalted_One]

I have found that spirit mark works 90% of the times dunno if they have tried to fix it or anything

[dragonflight288]

They aren't bad at all, they just have different utilizations. 

 

Necromancy is excellent crowd control and does have an ability to let you regenerate health and mana (every time an enemy dies, you regain some health and mana.) It plays very well on fear, limiting the number of enemies you have to fight at once. Use flame magic and Necromancy, and enemies will be running before you in droves. Lightning magic is also a great thing to go with it. Static Cage and horrified enemies do wonders at parties. 

 

Dorian is a necromancer, an I had him specialize completely in fire magic and necromancy and he can almost solo most fights because so few enemies are actually fighting and he keeps getting health. The only really annoying part is when the soul of an enemy rises to fight by your side and you have to wait for the soul to die off before the main story lets you progress. 

 

I haven't played a Rift Mage and I usually don't play as Solas to see how to use it effectively

[Exalus]

Rift mage is one of the strongest specs in the game. Solas can almost singlehandedly destroy most non boss encounters. 

 

Infinite mana

30% weaken

ridiculously good aoe setup

 

Necromancer on the other is really sub par. Really, the only spec I would consider below average.

[Drunk Dutch Dude]

Alright, how is the single target damage of Rift Mage compared to a rogue/warrior though? It seems like a fun class, but I don't want to be relatively bad. I wonder since I believe most elites/bosses cant be weakened so you will miss a ton of damage.

[Wolfgrey666]

Alright, how is the single target damage of Rift Mage compared to a rogue/warrior though? It seems like a fun class, but I don't want to be relatively bad. I wonder since I believe most elites/bosses cant be weakened so you will miss a ton of damage.

 

The Fire mine combination is quite deadly. I would suggest looking around on the forums for the rift mage topics. Fire Mine is downright nasty.

[mredders91]

Rift mage can also use Static Cage + Lighting Cage on enemies that are weakened and any attack they receive from you or party members will proc the effect which counts as you hitting them causing the regen effect.

[actionhero112]

Necro is crap. This has been beaten to death, but their fear aoe is too small, and fear is subpar cc anyways.  Their mana costs are altogether too high to justify how mediocre their damage is and all of it is single target. Worst specialization in the game.

 

Rift Mage specializes in unlimited mana due to the mana bar refilling constantly when you attack weakened targets, a status which all of your upgraded spells cause. It's also the best cc class in the game, due to how good Pull of the Abyss is. It also complements aoe really well due to how Pull of the Abyss works. 

 

Mages are always going to be subpar to Warriors and Rogues in terms of single target damage. 

[Wolfgrey666]

Alright, how is the single target damage of Rift Mage compared to a rogue/warrior though? It seems like a fun class, but I don't want to be relatively bad. I wonder since I believe most elites/bosses cant be weakened so you will miss a ton of damage.

http://forum.bioware...-for-rift-mage/

 

This should help a bit right now.

Necro is crap. This has been beaten to death, but their fear aoe is too small, and fear is subpar cc anyways.  Their mana costs are altogether too high to justify how mediocre their damage is and all of it is single target. Worst specialization in the game.

 

Rift Mage specializes in unlimited mana due to the mana bar refilling constantly when you attack weakened targets, a status which all of your upgraded spells cause. It's also the best cc class in the game, due to how good Pull of the Abyss is. It also complements aoe really well due to how Pull of the Abyss works. 

 

Mages are always going to be subpar to Warriors and Rogues in terms of single target damage. 

Man you have you no idea what you are talking about. Necros make up their mana cost incredibly fast through mobs dying, good rotations, and barrier regen. Not hard at all keeping up with the costs which easily become minimal. Not to mention you can just use masterworks and it is a non issue. 

 

Sounds like you have zero idea how to play one.

[actionhero112]

 

Man you have you no idea what you are talking about. Necros make up their mana cost incredibly fast through mobs dying, good rotations, and barrier regen. Not hard at all keeping up with the costs which easily become minimal. Not to mention you can just use masterworks and it is a non issue. 

 

Sounds like you have zero idea how to play one.

Considering I've played all the specializations except artificer to endgame nightmare, I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. 

 

You really think 275% weapon damage is good dps? KE beats that by just swinging the spirit sword, and that's aoe and not just single target. It also doesn't cost an arm and a leg to cast. Are you talking about death syphon in reference to unlimited mana? That aoe is pretty small, to make use of it, you constantly have to be moving around, which breaks winter stillness, as well as the fact that you're also not casting basic attacks makes you lose dps. But you know what I like, to make sure I have the mana to cast my spells, basically getting in melee range of enemies. That's what I want. 

The entire specialization is bad. It's possibly the only one that needs an actual buff. 

 

Play some other classes, and you'll get an idea of how bad this one is. 

[Wolfgrey666]

Considering I've played all the specializations except artificer to endgame nightmare, I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. 

 

You really think 275% weapon damage is good dps? KE beats that by just swinging the spirit sword, and that's aoe and not just single target. It also doesn't cost an arm and a leg to cast. Are you talking about death syphon in reference to unlimited mana? That aoe is pretty small, to make use of it, you constantly have to be moving around, which breaks winter stillness, as well as the fact that you're also not casting basic attacks makes you lose dps. But you know what I like, to make sure I have the mana to cast my spells, basically getting in melee range of enemies. That's what I want. 

The entire specialization is bad. It's possibly the only one that needs an actual buff. 

 

Play some other classes, and you'll get an idea of how bad this one is. 

I guess you don't seem to understand where i am coming from. I never said unlimited mana, i said minimal costs and that still stands. I don't need to stay still for long either which negates your point on that matter.

 

As far as dps, that is not what the class is about anyway. The class is about controlling the battlefield which it does just fine. Especially if you know how to use a Necromancer properly. If you don't after that long of play that is fine. Just because it isn't a dps monster doesn't mean it doesn't have it's uses. And with the right group it is crazy fun and works just fine(minus some bugs).  I even mentioned Rift Mage was stronger. As for KE, ill just not bother with that one as that is easy mode and quite boring. Sure it can be fun but otherwise not all that much.

 

Necromancer is about control. Not dps. Keep that in mind.

 

And for your information i have played all other classes as well, on Nightmare.

 

Does Necromancer deserve a buff to help out with core mechanics? Yes. It is a terrible spec? No,  not by any means.

[Bhaal]

Yeah i have to agree that necromancer is the lack-luster spec of the game. Though there can be good necro build it would be a good build because of basic mage skills not necromancy tree. Both RM and KE improve basic mage with perfect passives that synergies well with other ability trees.

[Wolfgrey666]

Yeah i have to agree that necromancer is the lack-luster spec of the game. Though there can be good necro build it would be a good build because of basic mage skills not necromancy tree. Both RM and KE improve basic mage with perfect passives that synergies well with other ability trees.

 

Fire being the spell line that gives the Necro a lot of synergy. I do agree that it needs a buff, it just isn't as bad as people think it is. And if people stop thinking of only dps, it would be better thought of.

[ShadowWeaver2012]

My first play-through I was an Archer Rogue, this time around I'm a Necro Mage. I can say that I'm having to be a higher level in order to survive versus when I was a Rogue. I'm the weak link of every party.

[Wolfgrey666]

My first play-through I was an Archer Rogue, this time around I'm a Necro Mage. I can say that I'm having to be a higher level in order to survive versus when I was a Rogue. I'm the weak link of every party.

Rogues have multiple ways to escape damage. But so does a Necro.

 

Whenever an enemy is going for you, fear or use fire wall defensively. Fade step is also nice to pick up and have another mage or yourself use barriers. I don't have any issues living as far as i can tell.

 

Once again it requires more work but that is normal as a mage. Rogues have stealth which is an instant de-agro(mostly). That gives them a lot of survivability. They can also use their dodge pretty often too. 

 

I felt pretty dam spoiled on my rogues trust me. I could practically dance a jig and not care as a DW artificer due to cooldowns.

[actionhero112]

I guess you don't seem to understand where i am coming from. I never said unlimited mana, i said minimal costs and that still stands. I don't need to stay still for long either which negates your point on that matter.

 

As far as dps, that is not what the class is about anyway. The class is about controlling the battlefield which it does just fine. Especially if you know how to use a Necromancer properly. If you don't after that long of play that is fine. Just because it isn't a dps monster doesn't mean it doesn't have it's uses. And with the right group it is crazy fun and works just fine(minus some bugs).  I even mentioned Rift Mage was stronger. As for KE, ill just not bother with that one as that is easy mode and quite boring. Sure it can be fun but otherwise not all that much.

 

Necromancer is about control. Not dps. Keep that in mind.

 

And for your information i have played all other classes as well, on Nightmare.

 

Does Necromancer deserve a buff to help out with core mechanics? Yes. It is a terrible spec? No,  not by any means.

 

Considering your spells cost at least 50 mana and they have amazingly long cooldowns, you do need winter stillness, which means you need to stand still. The thing about other specializations is that they have unique capabilities they bring to the table. Rift mage brings the best cc, KE brings unlimited barrier and the most dps for a mage. Necro brings.... nothing. To make it passable, you need to use pull of the abyss, though there are better combos with PotA than walking bomb, making the specialization good for.... nothing. 

 

Why would you bring Necro for cc when rift mage does everything it can do better? And control? The small aoe fear which is removed almost instantly? That's control? Please.

 

How do you define using the Necromage properly? Using all your spells on grouped up enemies hoping that the tickle explosion does something when another class does most of the damage anyways? There is nothing hard about necromancer. There is no skill order. 

 

It's a terrible spec because every other specialization is better. 

[Wolfgrey666]

Considering your spells cost at least 50 mana and they have amazingly long cooldowns, you do need winter stillness, which means you need to stand still. The thing about other specializations is that they have unique capabilities they bring to the table. Rift mage brings the best cc, KE brings unlimited barrier and the most dps for a mage. Necro brings.... nothing. To make it passable, you need to use pull of the abyss, though there are better combos with PotA than walking bomb, making the specialization good for.... nothing. 

 

Why would you bring Necro for cc when rift mage does everything it can do better? And control? The small aoe fear which is removed almost instantly? That's control? Please.

 

How do you define using the Necromage properly? Using all your spells on grouped up enemies hoping that the tickle explosion does something when another class does most of the damage anyways? There is nothing hard about necromancer. There is no skill order. 

 

It's a terrible spec because every other specialization is better. 

 

Alright proved to me quite quickly you have no idea how to use a Necromancer. Good job.

 

There is skill orders, combos, and strategies to use. Ill come back later and edit this post with plenty of them. However i am at work right now so i can't do so off the top of my head for a full explanation.

 

When i get home however i will post more.Though considering your posts in other threads i am probably wasting my time, but i like to be thorough.

[Exalus]

Necro's biggest issue besides lackluster main skills is the fact it has no gamebreaking mana boosting ability like RM and KE. mana on kill is pitiful especially on NM with restrictions where everything has a megatone of health and the amount restored tiny. 

 

You can argue necro is not completely useless as in having a necro is better than having nothing but it is nothing compared to RM or KE both in strength and in internal synergy. its like someone slapped some cool sounding skills on paper and into a random spec and gave it not the means to support itself in implementation. 

[Wolfgrey666]

Necro's biggest issue besides lackluster main skills is the fact it has no gamebreaking mana boosting ability like RM and KE. mana on kill is pitiful especially on NM with restrictions where everything has a megatone of health and the amount restored tiny. 

 

You can argue necro is not completely useless as in having a necro is better than having nothing but it is nothing compared to RM or KE both in strength and in internal synergy. its like someone slapped some cool sounding skills on paper and into a random spec and gave it not the means to support itself in implementation. 

Which is why i stated it could use a buff to help out with it's core mechanics. It has the tools but the tools are buggy. With the proper application and a couple changes it would be great. Also masterwork plus barrier regen = minimal cost. Mana problems aren't an issue. I would argue that game-breaking mana boosting abilities shouldn't be a requirement.

 

I simply arguing it is viable and has skill rotations/use. It's not like i haven't admitted it is weaker than KE and Rift Mage. This is my third time stating this essentially in the thread. Which is a tad annoying.

 

Sure it is certainly the least damaging spec and the one with the least internal synergies. But it is a fun and viable spec. As mentioned it just needs a lot more work to be utilized properly.

[actionhero112]

Every specialization is viable. Necromancer is just the worst specialization. Gingerbread cookie is still a cookie, but it's still inferior to oatmeal raisin and chocolate chip.

 

Using masterwork as an excuse is just bleh. You're basically telling the player to go farm something and chances are they're not going to have it for the majority of the game. 

 

This is a rotation for the Necromancer

 

Solas uses PotA

Solas uses Static Cage

You use Virulent Walking Bomb and Energy Barrage

You're probably specced into fire, so fire mine/wall

Yawn. I'm not going to go in farther, because it's standard mage after this. *

 

Walking bomb target dies. Hopefully whole group dies.

 

But you can do the same thing without the Necromancer and those classes are flat better. 

 

The fact of the matter is that strategically, there is no reason to choose Necromancer. 

 

There is no specific Necromancer skill rotation. Because you're just firing off your abilities like a normal mage, you just switch in virulent walking bomb on your energy barrage target and have your other mage static cage instead of you. That's not a rotation. That's shoehorning in an ability. It doesn't change how you play. With both KE and Rift Mage there are very obvious differences in your rotations after you get the specializations. Hell, Pull of the Abyss changes how your entire party plays. Suddenly the KE becomes a frontliner upon getting its specialization. As a Necromancer you just cast one more high cost spell that are targeted and pretty much define fire and forget. 

 

*Don't tell me you use spirit mark or horror. I will laugh. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Pyro[necro]mancer is great

 

walls of fire.

one of the few classes that can make use of flashfire 

 

toss in a static cage around scared enemies

or DoT with walking bomb [<3333] and wall of fire in static cage

watch the numbers collide

[Bigdoser]

was so hyped for necromancer before release then I got the spec and then from there I was sad panda and thinking constantly on why I picked it in the first place.