100 réponses à ce sujet

[Milkmaid79]

So far I haven't seen anything that required Leliana to have survived the death in the cave. Does her essential role pop up nearer to the end and explain why it's ok for Alistair to have died but not her?

[Sweawm]

To be honest, there really isn't much reason. Leliana could have been replaced with a generic spy if she didn't survive Origins, and it wouldn't have changed Inquisition's plot one bit. I can only guess since the other advisers were already established characters, that they just wanted to have a familiar Spymaster. 

[Milkmaid79]

About what I expected-thanks for the honesty.

[FaWa]

Artistic Integrity

[Elsariel]

To be honest, there really isn't much reason. Leliana could have been replaced with a generic spy if she didn't survive Origins, and it wouldn't have changed Inquisition's plot one bit. I can only guess since the other advisers were already established characters, that they just wanted to have a familiar Spymaster.

I thought Josephine was a new character?

[Jukaga]

I can only imagine the troll-warden that would have killed her in the first place. Sure I defiled the ashes in DAO to unlock Reaver, then promptly re-loaded. Now that's something missing from DA2 and DAI, you had to do some major evil to unlock Reaver and Blood Mage which I think is appropriate. It's my headcanon house rule that those classes are off-limits in DA2 as there is no cost associated with them. (not to mention the absurdity that is a blood mage Hawke)

[JosephShrike]

If I had to guess, it would probably because she was a dev favorite and they wanted to write the Nightingale storyline with Lels. Other two possibilities were they didn't want to make the Song DLC for Origins for a character that was going to stay dead and because she has the potential for being the Divine at the end of Inquisition, they wanted to have her play into that some way. I don't really mind that they did it (I never did a playthrough where she was killed), but I think it would have been cooler if that was worked in some way, like if you killed her in Origins and she survived, she was still actively trying to hunt down and kill The Warden. As I said, never done the playthrough so that might be it and someone else can confirm/deny that if its the case. I'm all for artistic decision making with game, and I'm too old and read too many comics in my life to be overly concerned with people getting killed off and being brought back to life or any other inconsistencies. As long as I can enjoy a game, I'm fine with it, but I will always enjoy a game more if it works its reasoning for such a decision into a retcon that has some impact, even if it is minor.

[Lady Mutare]

I dislike Leliana and killed her in every game I could. It really irked me to have to put up with her in Inquisition.

[Xx Serissia xX]

Well, she's an option for becoming Divine at the end.

[KaiserShep]

To be honest, there really isn't much reason. Leliana could have been replaced with a generic spy if she didn't survive Origins, and it wouldn't have changed Inquisition's plot one bit. I can only guess since the other advisers were already established characters, that they just wanted to have a familiar Spymaster. 

 

Yeah, pretty much. I actually like Leliana, but I really wish that the option to kill her remained solid throughout the series, so that we could at least get a new character to experience in an alternate playthrough. I would bet that if the writers put a decent effort, enough people would like her enough to at least make one world state with Leliana being killed by the Warden. Imagine if the alternate was romanceable. Leliana would probably be doomed XD

[Milkmaid79]

I can only imagine the troll-warden that would have killed her in the first place. Sure I defiled the ashes in DAO to unlock Reaver, then promptly re-loaded. Now that's something missing from DA2 and DAI, you had to do some major evil to unlock Reaver and Blood Mage which I think is appropriate. It's my headcanon house rule that those classes are off-limits in DA2 as there is no cost associated with them. (not to mention the absurdity that is a blood mage Hawke)

 

There was no cost to unlock them in Origins either, since you could always reload (as you did), plus they stayed unlocked after doing it once. As for "troll-warden", why is killing off a companion a bad thing? Hell, I recall Wynne attacking just because I dared to have Morrigan in my party at the Circle Tower. Does that make my Warden evil, or Wynne psychotic?

[BloodyTalon]

On the plus side you get to find out she woke from your warden's attempt at killing her in full agnoy...that is always good.

[Arvaarad]

They could have easily created a new character as spymaster rather than contend with a possibly-alive, possibly-dead previous character. The fact that they didn't, when it would be so easy to do so, suggests that her survival isn't a retcon.

Her story in Origins is of a person who believes herself chosen. Surviving apparent death dovetails nicely into that story. Not to mention, her passion for the Maker likely would attract attention from spirits of faith, spirits who were all over that place. Plus, the cave contained so much lyrium that it bestowed healing powers on an urn. There are multiple ways she could have come back.

There are one or two implausible survivals in Dragon Age. But Leliana is not one of them.

[KaiserShep]

There was no cost to unlock them in Origins either, since you could always reload (as you did), plus they stayed unlocked after doing it once. As for "troll-warden", why is killing off a companion a bad thing? Hell, I recall Wynne attacking just because I dared to have Morrigan in my party at the Circle Tower. Does that make my Warden evil, or Wynne psychotic?

 

In fairness to Wynne, she's basically facing this armed group, with a person among them who is probably a maleficar (I'm pretty sure Wynne will call Morrigan that in a certain dialogue path) blithely discussing allowing them all to be slaughtered while also contending with demons, abominations and possessed Templars.

[Marshal Moriarty]

I was wondering about this too. I assumed when they announced this decision that they must have some big role they *needed* her to be alive for. And I suspect that was the intention, but as with many other things in this game, it kind of got lost in the shuffle due to what kind of game it ended up being (i.e an MMO with very little emphasis on story and character depth). She had been canonically confirmed to be alive in DA2, by the end sequence, so they were locked into the decision. It just seems that when the game actually came round, they didn't really need her after all. Her only big roles in the whole game are the optional Mages Quest (which judging by every thread I've seen on the subject, seems very much the lesser picked of the 2 paths) and Wicked Eyes... (though her involvement in that is far, far smaller than you would suspect).

 

So its a 2-pronged failure. An incredibly stupid move to resurrect a character and overrule player choice anyway, but made even worse by not then doing anything with that character that warrants such action. It just adds fuel to the fire that Bioware brought her back because they like her and because they thought having her into the pre release materials would help sell more copies of the game.

 

There was no way they could justify the retcon anyway, but doing it like this was probably the worst way they could have chosen. Because it ends up feeling like them sticking up 2 fingers and saying 'Why did we retcon this? Because F**k you, that's why!'

[In Exile]

There was no cost to unlock them in Origins either, since you could always reload (as you did), plus they stayed unlocked after doing it once. As for "troll-warden", why is killing off a companion a bad thing? Hell, I recall Wynne attacking just because I dared to have Morrigan in my party at the Circle Tower. Does that make my Warden evil, or Wynne psychotic?

Wynne only attacks if you agree to murder every one. That's self defence. As for murdering companions, since you are only ever able to do it for the most insane and usually evil reasons, yeah, it makes your character evil and a psycho.

[KaiserShep]

Wynne only attacks if you agree to murder every one. That's self defence. As for murdering companions, since you are only ever able to do it for the most insane and usually evil reasons, yeah, it makes your character evil and a psycho.

I think the sole exception is Zevran, who will betray you if his approval isn't high enough.

 

I have to give Oghren props for having one of the better lines of disapproval before he leaves the group.

 

"I hope you succeed, Warden, but I hope it kills ya!"

[In Exile]

I think the sole exception is Zevran, who will betray you if his approval isn't high enough.

Yeah but not killing Zevran is the weird choice in this case. "Yeah skilled assassin trying to kill me, you CAN stay next to me while I sleep and keep all your weapons and poisons".

[KaiserShep]

I like how Leliana approves if you take him on. Alistair and Morrigan are clearly the sensible ones in this scenario.

[sch1986]

Because Leliana is a bad ass spymaster...

Hated her in origins. I think her story actually makes more sense if the warden "killed" her in origins. How she becomes so hardened.

I haven't actually played with a softened Leliana yet though. Didn't realize what I was doing wrong until it was too late.

And I kind of agree with what others are saying about it not really being a retcon. Perhaps the devs planned this from the beginning. With so many other miraculous things that happen in this game it isn't that much of a stretch to think that where she died is playing an integral role in all of this.

[Monica21]

So far I haven't seen anything that required Leliana to have survived the death in the cave. Does her essential role pop up nearer to the end and explain why it's ok for Alistair to have died but not her?

 

What do you mean? Leliana never died in a cave in my game.

[Wulfram]

I like how Leliana approves if you take him on. Alistair and Morrigan are clearly the sensible ones in this scenario.

Leliana in DA:O is really into redemption and second chances

[Precursor Meta]

From what I hear, you could kill her in Origins. So her showing up in inquisition was a bit odd for the people that killed her.

But she's undoubtedly one of Biowares favorite characters along with Morrigan, Varric, and I think its safe to say that Cassandra will be part of that list also.

So expect to see them in nearly every game...

[Sweawm]

I thought Josephine was a new character?

Whoops, I stand corrected. I was thinking Cullen and Cassandra when concerning the War Table. It still stands though, the Advisers literally spend the entire game voicing the bulk of the story and exposition. Inventing a whole new character to be Spymaster on the slight chance that a Warden did kill Leliana two games ago and having probably two dozen scenes changed was probably too much work for resources that could be better invested elsewhere. 

[Ashagar]

She also appears in DA2 as the divine's agent though I have to think any warden who would believe and trust a insane cultist leader enough to side him and defile the ashes is likely belongs to the royal family of the staby kingdom crazy.