100 réponses à ce sujet

[abr]

What do you mean? Leliana never died in a cave in my game.

 

Glad i'm not the only one confused... is that in DA2 cause i never really played that more then halfway through... but Allistair isn't in DA2 is he?

[Ashagar]

It depends on your choices, if he ran away in a fit after he landsmeet because of choices there he turns up as a background NPC drunk in the slums tavern in act two or three I believe.

[Monica21]

Glad i'm not the only one confused... is that in DA2 cause i never really played that more then halfway through... but Allistair isn't in DA2 is he?

 

It was sarcasm. :/ Sorry.

 

You can kill Leliana in Origins if you defile the ashes, but like, 4 people did and they're the ones who are calling it a "retcon" when it's not a retcon at all for most games.

[abr]

It was sarcasm. :/ Sorry.

 

You can kill Leliana in Origins if you defile the ashes, but like, 4 people did and they're the ones who are calling it a "retcon" when it's not a retcon at all for most games.

 

aaah kay got it! didn't know that, thx!

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Wow, so many replies & nobody said the usual "she's the Liara of the DA series" answer that Leliana haters jump on

[KaiserShep]

It was sarcasm. :/ Sorry.

 

You can kill Leliana in Origins if you defile the ashes, but like, 4 people did and they're the ones who are calling it a "retcon" when it's not a retcon at all for most games.

 

I suppose whether or not it's a retcon is pretty debatable, since it's not something that's fixed to happen, but at the same time, it's a wee bit lame that such a decision can't be followed through by sealing that character's fate. I've never killed Leliana before, but if it was possible to kill her in Origins for good and get an alternate character in her place, I'd probably have her be dead in a world state just to get the alternate content.

[Monica21]

I suppose whether or not it's a retcon is pretty debatable, since it's not something that's fixed to happen, but at the same time, it's a wee bit lame that such a decision can't be followed through by sealing that character's fate. I've never killed Leliana before, but if it was possible to kill her in Origins for good and get an alternate character in her place, I'd probably have her be dead in a world state just to get the alternate content.

 

Then how about, like any RPG, we call it "living with the consequences of your actions." You kill Leliana in Origins, but too bad, the Maker has other plans for her, so she's healed. And she is not happy about the "hero" of Ferelden killing her.

[Marshal Moriarty]

Well, if The Maker did bring her back, then he must be kicking himself for that decision. I mean, she slit an unarmed priest's throat (who hadn't actually *done* anything) and left her dumped in a pool of her own blood in a Chantry at one point... If that's the kind of thing The Maker's hand picked chosen ones get up to, then I say let Corypheus have a go! He couldn't do much worse of a job - Calypernia's a much nicer person than Leliana in this game!  At least the person she smeared over a wall was a slaver...

 

Leliana 's all over the place in this game. They use the 'Master Spy, Woman of a Thousand Faces' schtick to have her seem like some schixophrenic psycho. One minute she's giggly and dorky, the next she's camping it up like Cruella Deville, vamping and smirking and just generally being an insufferable Smug Snake.

[KaiserShep]

Then how about, like any RPG, we call it "living with the consequences of your actions." You kill Leliana in Origins, but too bad, the Maker has other plans for her, so she's healed. And she is not happy about the "hero" of Ferelden killing her.

Yeah it's cool that there's some dialogue there, but somehow it just seems kinda....I dunno...cheap I guess. It's not a real concern for me since I had no plans on killing her, but I do kind of wish that this decision had more variety in it beyond just some alternate dialogue about "He killed me. I'm ever so p**sed!"

[Ashagar]

Oh am fully believing any warden who did kill her gets woken up to assassins trying to kill them periodically, you can even see as the real reason why the warden is so hard for the inquisition's agents to find.

[AshenEndymion]

Wynne only attacks if you agree to murder every one. That's self defence. As for murdering companions, since you are only ever able to do it for the most insane and usually evil reasons, yeah, it makes your character evil and a psycho.

 
This isn't entirely accurate... Wynne attacks if the Warden bring Morrigan along, and doesn't outright say no to her suggestion.  Sure, if you agree to her suggestion, Wynne attacks, and rightfully so.  But if you question Morrigan about why she recommends continuing the plan of annulling the Circle, Wynne will attack("I'm an abomination, but you have an apostate among you, thus you must die").  That is what makes Wynne psychotic.  And it's why I don't have many qualms about killing her.
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As to the question in the OP... I'm curious as to why it needs to be answered in this game(or the next)?  Perhaps it doesn't matter what Leliana does... Perhaps the real effect of Leliana's survival is in something someone else does(or doesn't do) because of Leliana(which, honestly, we probably wouldn't find out until the DA that takes place >20 years after DAO)...  No one knows the Maker's will, after all....

[llandwynwyn]

I thought they saved her to something interesting, but no. Instead we have to babysit our so called spymaster and she maybe can be made Divine.

 

They should've used a new character.

[KaiserShep]

 
This isn't entirely accurate... Wynne attacks if the Warden bring Morrigan along, and doesn't outright say no to her suggestion.  Sure, if you agree to her suggestion, Wynne attacks, and rightfully so.  But if you question Morrigan about why she recommends continuing the plan of annulling the Circle, Wynne will attack("I'm an abomination, but you have an apostate among you, thus you must die").  That is what makes Wynne psychotic.  And it's why I don't have many qualms about killing her.
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As to the question in the OP... I'm curious as to why it needs to be answered in this game(or the next)?  Perhaps it doesn't matter what Leliana does... Perhaps the real effect of Leliana's survival is in something someone else does(or doesn't do) because of Leliana(which, honestly, we probably wouldn't find out until the DA that takes place >20 years after DAO)...  No one knows the Maker's will, after all....

Admittedly I didn't go through all of the dialogue options yet. Wynne really says "I'm an abomination"? That's pretty funny. There's no good way to put a "but" in there. Like, you're an abomination. It's hard to really get worse than that. Apostate? Yeah, illegal mage. Big whoop. That's like comparing an undocumented worker to a terrorist.

[TOply]

I suppose having her in made more of an "emotional" impact at the end of the Mage questline vs. a totally new character, or they didn't have the budget to do two different models for all her scenes =p

I did a world state where she died and thus far, the only reference I've seen to it is her comment about how there are no heroes and everyone is flawed.

[AshenEndymion]

Admittedly I didn't go through all of the dialogue options yet. Wynne really says "I'm an abomination"? That's pretty funny. There's no good way to put a "but" in there. Like, you're an abomination. It's hard to really get worse than that. Apostate? Yeah, illegal mage. Big whoop. That's like comparing an undocumented worker to a terrorist.

 
Wynne doesn't say that at that point in time, no... But the meta-gaming certainly makes her attack on the Warden when she finds that Morrigan is an apostate a tad hypocritcal...  Wynne, essentially, admits to being an abomination if you recruit her and get her approval.  She never outright says "I'm an abomination", but she does admit to making a deal with a spirit and being possessed by it.  And that makes her an abomination by the letter of Chantry law...

[Marshal Moriarty]

Its particularly silly given that Varric is in the game, and he's also a kind of spymaster 'man with the right connections' kind of guy. His reason for not doing this job for the Inquisition is that he cares too much about his people, and is too sentimental to be much use. Yet this is exactly what Leliana does when Haven is attacked, and the most you can do is give the very lightest rap on the knuckles, despite her complete and utter failure in her appointed role (which Cullen at least does hold her responsible for, with his 'I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed' conversation he has with her).

 

Seriously, how does she keep her job as Spymaster after Haven? Corypheus sneaks a whole army right up to the gates, before anyone notices. And even though Leliana knew some of her agents had been taken out, she apparently didn't warn Cullen (because he seems just as surprised as anyone else when the army is sighted)?

 

If it were up to me, I'd have sacked her on the spot and given the job to Varric. He'd complain at first, but he'd do the job in the end. Hell, I'd put an article in the Wanted ads, rather than continue to use Leliana after that disaster! But then base security is not the Inqusition's strongest suit - let's have this almost completely unknown teleport mirror, supplied by someone we have every reason to be suspicious of, and just leave it in the middle of our base, and leave it unguarded. Excellent plan...? Let's give the Inquisitor a room with plenty of windows and access points for Assassins, and put it in an out of the way area of the Castle, with no guards. Can't go wrong there...

 

The desert fort in The Western approach is little better - no guards posted at the tunnel you used to sneak in, a ladder leading into the fort, also unguarded...  Set up a private security firm in Thedas, and you could name your price. These people have no idea what they're doing.

[Ashagar]

You mean the massively high tower at the heart of Skyhold, in the castle filled with solders and agents of the inquisition,  that to get to you have to pass though the Inquisition's army in the valley below to even reach the fortress on top of a mountain.

[Dr. Rush]

I personally think that if Leliana is resurrected she should automatically become the Divine, regardless of player choices. If she is going to be personally marked by Andraste or the Maker, it should be for some significant purpose, like becoming Divine.

[NotBeouwulf]

Umm...

 

You're actively talking about killing her.  Attacking you doesn't make her psychotic, it makes her sane. 

[KaiserShep]

 Let's give the Inquisitor a room with plenty of windows and access points for Assassins, and put it in an out of the way area of the Castle, with no guards. Can't go wrong there...

 

Guards walk the ramparts on a regular basis, and the only access point into the Inquisitor's room, other than the door leading to the court, overlooks a steep mountain side with nothing but more mountains in the distance. For an assassin to get into the room through the window, s/he'd have to get to the ramparts, then scale the wall over the steep, deadly drop to make their way up to the balcony. I suppose it can be done, but these two very dangerous things would have to be gotten through first.

[Reguire]

Maybe she didn't die in Temple of the Sacred Ashes? Maybe she was only wounded and patched herself up.

[Marshal Moriarty]

Please, the tower has no security, and if an assassin is put off by height, then he might want to think of a new line of work. The guy from the Milk Tray adverts could get in there..Get in a professional like Ezio from Assassin's Creed and he'd do the job for free, its so easy.

 

You see assassins are cunning fellows. They tend to show up at night, and wear black so patrolling guards can't spot them. Devilish of them, I know... And they bring specialized gear to help them climb to high places. You wouldn't know it from the assassins you meet in DA, where the standard MO of the Antivan Crows for example, seems to be getting anywhere between 12-25 guys and just swarming the target.

 

And before you declare the fortress is 'impenetrable', let's consider that in several war room operations, its revealed that the Venatori already have spies in the Castle. Also, the House of Repose is able to get an assassin into Josephine's office and right up to her desk before he's caught. And that's even after they graciously warned you that they were after her.

[AzureAardvark]

I like how Leliana approves if you take him on. Alistair and Morrigan are clearly the sensible ones in this scenario.

 

But the "Or maybe not." line is quite awesome.

[KaiserShep]

Please, the tower has no security, and if an assassin is put off by height, then he might want to think of a new line of work. The guy from the Milk Tray adverts could get in there...

That's kind of like saying that the City of Amaranthine has no real presence of guards there, because the game can't populate it with a more convincing number of guards walking about the battlements. But they are there.

[AshenEndymion]

Umm...
 
You're actively talking about killing her.  Attacking you doesn't make her psychotic, it makes her sane.

 
If Wynne ever attacked while you discussed, in front of her, what to do about the living mages, when Morrigan was not in the party, I'd be more inclined to accept that argument...
 

Maybe she didn't die in Temple of the Sacred Ashes? Maybe she was only wounded and patched herself up.

 
People like to use the arguments like "I used an execution finisher on her" as a reason why she couldn't have survived... Not taking into account that you can do the same to Loghain, Howe, and Zathrian, but still have them alive in the next cutscene(only to die "again"...  Or not in Loghain's case)...
 
In a world of magic, spirits, and demons, the idea that there is zero chance Leliana to be alive after the Urn of Sacred Ashes choice is silly...