Exactly. That's really the most ironic part. Our DAO companion Sten, who is now the Arishok thus leader of the Qun's military, flat out tells you that Qunari alliances are worthless.
I'm curious. Where in-game does it say this, and how is it presented? Or is this canon lore from the books?
edit- I mean the Sten from DAO being the new Arishok.
I'm curious. Where in-game does it say this, and how is it presented? Or is this canon lore from the books?
edit- I mean the Sten from DAO being the new Arishok.
You see him in the comic and bull and Varric mention him and sten does pretty much state they are going to invade and treaties and agreements don't mean much to the Qunari.
Mercenaries are expendable, they have always been.
An aliance with the Qun is a gambit but in the end you might gain a lot or loose a merc company. Easy choice.
Logic does not impose goals. Alliances serve a purpose, and this one would have insignificant benefits. Can the qunari provide magical assitance? No. Would they send an army? Well, I don't know when I make the decision, but even *if* they sent an army, could I trust them not to stay past their welcome? Most emphatically: No.
An ally you can't trust is almost as bad as an enemy. I would always have to spend resources to watch my back. I'm not going to antagonize them needlessly, but I also won't do anything that helps them conquering the world.
Also, by refusing to sacrifice the Chargers, I deny the qunari a valuable asset and make it my own.
The Qunari alliance stops half of Denerim from being burned down by the Venatori.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to pick up on the shades of derp from this mission. Anyone else reminded by Shep & co picking their bums while the cereal killer and Thane are fighting during the Citadel coup? I could have fade-stepped down to the beach and annihilated the Venatori without breaking a sweat. Also, how is a small secret society supposed to threaten Denerim? Last I checked Ferelden has an army to defend itself.
Guest_Faerunner_*
Bull's men.
I don't like or trust the Qunari.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to pick up on the shades of derp from this mission. Anyone else reminded by Shep & co picking their bums while the cereal killer and Thane are fighting during the Citadel coup? I could have fade-stepped down to the beach and annihilated the Venatori without breaking a sweat. Also, how is a small secret society supposed to threaten Denerim? Last I checked Ferelden has an army to defend itself.
Could you imagine the outrage if the class you chose determined whether or not you could have your cake and eat it too? All those suckers with mundanes would be SOL.
I just said fade-step as an example. Nothing to stop a 2hw from leaping off the cliff, guzzling a potion and grappling the nearest Venatori to say hi. I'm sure the rest of the team would get the idea and follow.
The reaction could be mixed for a class-specific action. I seem to recall most people being in favor of the Omega Engineer interrupt.
@Eterna: Which War table mission is that - cause I didn't lose half of Denerim for not siding with the Qunari.
But what IS made clear - is that this alliance precedes attempts to convert southern Thedas - so you may have saved Denerim only for conversion.
Some things are more trouble than they are worth, and an "alliance" with the Qunari is one of them.
If I could get something like this without actually paying anything, that's okay, even though I'll continue to watch them for any sudden movements.
But if it actually costs the lives of loyal soldiers and has the potential to destroy the morale of one of my best agents (IB), well, that's not even a question for me.
Why is any alliance more trouble then it is worth? When it serves a common purpose and goal at the direct time of this mission?
Mercenaries are only loyal to coin and they are never your men. They are Iron Bull's, an agent of Ben-Hesserth that same alliance on offer, he has stated he will never be different, or convert to your religon.
I have real trouble understanding you, apology for the apperant dilema.
The concept you seemingly have adopted, is that every alliance has got hidden agenda's. Welcome to the democratic world, spies spying on each other. Haha.
The lives of a handful of mercenaries, who are willing to live, or die for this cause. They are worth far more than stopping an immediate threat, and treating with a nation? Whom you are in a much better position to reform, like you have done with their agent, from alliegance, rather then acting hostile through inaction, terminating all ties and contact. But you have expressed a biased view further judging any decision through emotion, based on your lack of trust?
Because of your distrust you are willing to make enemies, who could be swayed against, at a time of war.
also it comes from sten's mouth:
qunari alliances are worth the paper they are written on
He says that in regards to a peace treaty, not an alliance.
He says that in regards to a peace treaty, not an alliance.
While still attempting to murder a former comrade because it is what the Qun requires.
@Eterna: Which War table mission is that - cause I didn't lose half of Denerim for not siding with the Qunari.
But what IS made clear - is that this alliance precedes attempts to convert southern Thedas - so you may have saved Denerim only for conversion.
The Qunari are going to invade regardless of what you do. So why not get some use outta them first? I mean seriously, how can you complain about the fact that they saved the capital city of Ferelden? Saving all those innocent lives isn't good enough? The Qunari hate the Venetori just as much as the inquisition does. They WILL help you kick their asses. Without the alliance, the Venetori end up doing more damage to Southern Thedas, leaving it weaker in the event of a Qunari invasion. How is that any better? The US and USSR allied with each other in ww2 because it was mutually beneficial to both even though they despised each other. If it saves lives, then its worth it.
The Qunari are going to invade regardless of what you do. So why not get some use outta them first? I mean seriously, how can you complain about the fact that they saved the capital city of Ferelden? Saving all those innocent lives isn't good enough? The Qunari hate the Venetori just as much as the inquisition does. They WILL help you kick their asses. Without the alliance, the Venetori end up doing more damage to Southern Thedas, leaving it weaker in the event of a Qunari invasion. How is that any better? The US and USSR allied with each other in ww2 because it was mutually beneficial to both even though they despised each other. If it saves lives, then its worth it.
Problem is an alliance allows them a better foothold in the south considering they get into the inquisition base in an attempted assassination of Bull who knows how many doors are now open to them through an alliance.
While still attempting to murder a former comrade because it is what the Qun requires.
Yes, I did have some 2% milk today.
At the time of this mission, any alliiance served a common goal, through this mission objective.
But because when re-running the linear calander's tape, when being so supper smug about spoliers.
Those evilest of Hesserth cannot be trusted at this present time, requiring battle hardend Chargers, to halt this story progressions romance?
Done both. Bull seems fine either way.
*Snip*
Because of your distrust you are willing to make enemies, who could be swayed against, at a time of war.
Trust has next to nothing to do with an alliance between nations or political powers, it's all about potential risks Vs. potential gains, mutual goals, etc.
So what is the difference between an alliance with the Qunari to an alliance with every other power?
Simple: The difference is in what drives their decision making. With any other power, you can trust that as long as relations are good and both sides benefit from it, the connection will only grow into something like friendship, you might even be able to trust your ally some day.
However with the Qunari all that is irrelevant, it's the old "Convert or die" (we saw lately truly horrific examples for this type of religious fundamentalism).
They simply cannot be reasoned with, or trusted to not attack and subjugate you out of the blue "for your own good".
The Qunari "religion" has no room in it for any other culture or religion, and as soon as it is convenient you will be devoured.
And as someone else mentioned above, the Qunari don't really do anything special for this "Alliance", they just fight the "Vints" as they always do,
and will continue to do it with or without an alliance.
Therefore, I judge any alliance with the Qunari as not worth the risk until such time that we see a real change in their attitude.
In regards to IB, he is not a very "religious" Qunari, and he is quite effective even without his handlers, for all intents and purposes he is not *truly* a Qunari since he seems able to compromise and bend the rules.
At the time of this mission, any alliiance served a common goal, through this mission objective.
But because when re-running the linear calander's tape, when being so supper smug about spoliers.
Those evilest of Hesserth cannot be trusted at this present time, requiring battle hardend Chargers, to halt this story progressions romance?
I'm trying to understand what you wrote here, but I'm just getting a headache.
It depends on how you see the Inquisition's future. If you see it as a short term thing, then the naval power brought by the Qunari is interesting. On the other hand, if you realize that it will grow into the most powerful political entity on Thedas, you'll want to keep away from any Qunari tie. It wouldn't be wise to let the only pillar of political stability come under the Qun's influence.
Problem is an alliance allows them a better foothold in the south considering they get into the inquisition base in an attempted assassination of Bull who knows how many doors are now open to them through an alliance.
What kind of foothold would they actually achieve with this alliance? They have agents everywhere regardless of the alliance, they're not building up a permanent military presence in the area and they live on an Island nation on the other side of the continent. Ignoring this alliance takes stress off the Venetori and allows them to do greater damage in the south, which would leave the region weaker in the event of a Qunari invasion. Either situation gives the Qunari a possible advantage. Atleast the Venetori are an immediate threat. No one can say for sure when the Qunari will invade. This alliance provides obvious benefits and may or may not put you at a disadvantage in the future. Ignoring the alliance provides obvious benefits to the Venetori and may or may not make it harder for the Qunari to invade in the future. I chose the alliance because I think its better to get help dealing with an immediate threat than to turn away allies because it MIGHT make it harder for them to kill us later on.
Bull's men...
Being Tal-Vashot..I dont care about the Qunari..or their 'alliance'...and that elf got on my nerve fast......
I did both myself. I found I preferred saving the chargers. As far as I was concerned they were not just mercs, they were my men and my friends. They were essentially Bull's family. I do not believe in victory at any cost. I am willing to look towards the greater good but the fact is if we become ruthless and practical to the point where friends are so easily discarded for power and advantage, we are no better than those we fight. The Wardens at Adamant, the Templars at Kirkwall, many more... all became so focused on duty or power that they lost sight of all else and became no better than that which they fought. Wardens as savage and soaked with innocent blood as darkspawn, templars murdering innocents and forcing good mages to resort to blood magic or fall to possession in desperation... you could argue other factors forced these events but every individual in both cases had a choice: Anything for my duty/victory or put what I believe right first, as we do in DAI. Are we willing to allow the death of friends to a Qunari alliance as the Wardens permitted mass murder for their demon army and the Templars a genocide of mages, that they all knew and in some cases likely respected, to fulfill the "duties"of their orders as dictated by their commander? Is victory worth so much cost, the willing sacrifice or murder of friends? I say no, for when we fall to such levels we are truly lost whether we emerge victorious or not.
This is my opinion and my argument. The beauty is there is no right or wrong choice in this game. Only your choices and how you justify them to yourself and, in this case, others.
That was my thinking as well. Letting the Qun, a group known for being untrustworthy as opposed to an elite squad of mercs that have proven their loyalty. It was a no brainer.The Chargers.
The Qunari can't be trusted. You give them an inch they'll take a mile and then some.
The Qunari that have not made alliances like this before? The same ones intent on conquering the world, as well as have tried to? Really. That is wholly suspect in and of itself. Plus, Iron Bull as the Qunari's key liaison between Qunari and the Inquisition? If they were really serious, I think they would have sent someone in a more official capacity than letting it to just Bull. 
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