341 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

I believe the Qunari's main agenda was to see if they had lost their agent (Bull) to the Inquisition. The alliance talks were to just get the Inquisition interested. They want to know if Bull has gone rogue. Stopping the red lyrium trade is certainly important, but if that was their highest priority the Qunari would continue to work with the Inquisition regardless of the outcome. Because to my knowledge the Inquisition are spearheading the fight against red lyrium and Corypheus across Thedas.

[ThreeF]

Inquisition becoming an ally of the Qun, is more or less the same as Inquisition becoming an ally of Tevinter.  It's interesting how there was no reaction from Chantry or Nobility or anyone, really (unless I missed something).

 

 

I wonder, if you truly beleive this (and I think you are right) then why recruit Iron Bull?

 

 

You can easily distrusts the Qun and recruit Bull, btw. The old keep your friends close and your enemies closer fits perfectly here.

[goofyomnivore]

Inquisition becoming an ally of the Qun, is more or less the same as Inquisition becoming an ally of Tevinter.  It's interesting how there was no reaction from Chantry or Nobility or anyone, really (unless I missed something).

 

Yeah especially considering Josephine's reaction if you tell her you wish to follow the Qun as a Qunari. Allying with the Qunari will ruffle more feathers than it is worth especially if they are going to toss the alliance away over one mission not going the way they want it.

[PocketDragon]

I believe the Qunari's main agenda was to see if they had lost their agent (Bull) to the Inquisition. The alliance talks were to just get the Inquisition interested. They want to know if Bull has gone rogue. Stopping the red lyrium trade is certainly important, but if that was their highest priority the Qunari would continue to work with the Inquisition regardless of the outcome. Because to my knowledge the Inquisition are spearheading the fight against red lyrium and Corypheus across Thedas.

I don't think so you. We can argue allday because you have seen later senario, are then basing opinion outside of information leading upto that point.

 

But you have just cost the lives of hundreds of men, from inaction failing objective, by ordering retreat, branding Iron Bull a traitor, you had an opportunity but you failed it.

 

They knew about Red Lyrium from Iron Bull's reports

 

Why would any power after a mistake like that come back?

 

The agenda for sending a ship was a sign of strength and a gesture of alliegance at what was on offer explained within the mission.

 

Play the mission, remembering all the information you had through conversation, and the intel note found at the Spymaster. Up until that mission point.

 

Sure we had an understanding of what they are, but no different then anywhere else within the kingdoms. They are a little more extreme. Although this game's dark age is like bigotry capital hill, with mage, templar wars, the qun, and anybody else who is not pro chantry.

[Nefla]

F*ck the king Qun! (now bring me some chickens...) 

[Maniccc]

Then you are no better. Isn't that that your inquistion motto, convert or die, by not seeking an alliance at that point? 

Umm...no.  The inquisition's goal is not convert or die, it's to seal the Breach.  The inquisitor is not declaring war on anyone, conquering nations, etc.  Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I wonder, if you truly beleive this (and I think you are right) then why recruit Iron Bull? He is Qun, a spy and the leader of a group of mercenarys, which means that their loayalty depends on who pays them the most. Nothing is stopping them from having Iron Bull and his mercs from killing you if they want. Bull would probably follow the order, his mercs would if they were paid enough.

Well, I never would have, but I wanted to recruit him to check out his banter, etc. which turned out to be some of the more amusing lines.  When I got to him, and he said he was a spy I was going to turn him down.  But then I thought, "this is Bioware, it won't matter, might as well get the guy and check out his banter, etc."  And it really didn't matter, and I had him save the Chargers.

[FreshRevenge]

I have a question? Where is the rest of Iron Bull's men? I only see Krem and Bull. I mean you Grim, Rocky and the rest. I never see them in the Tavern or anywhere in Skyhold.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't think so you. We can argue allday because you have seen later scenario, are then basing opinion outside of information leading upto that point.

 

That's just my opinion after the mission. During the mission I find the idea of an alliance with the Qunari to be more trouble than its worth. They are already fighting my enemy without me asking them to. Why should I take on all the political bs that will come with a formal alliance?

 

 

 

But you have just cost the lives of hundreds of men, from inaction failing objective, by ordering retreat, branding Iron Bull a traitor, you had an opportunity but you failed it.

 

I'd say the Qun failed its soldiers with poor scouting and underestimating the Venatori forces. Bull deferred his choice to me. I could not make the choice without his referral. If Bull didn't want to be a "traitor" he would of sided with the Qun. The objective was to stop the red lyrium trade. The immediate trade is stifled, and regardless of your choice the port is taken and rebuilt afterwards.

 

 

 

Why would any power after a mistake like that come back?

 

One that doesn't want the world to end? Are they gonna call off the alliance because they lose one dreadnought later down the road? The way they hyped up the inevitable doom if Tevinter continued getting red lyrium sounded like to me they would be happy losing a dreadnought to prevent it.

 

 

This mission is irritatingly stupid tho. I think this should of been the culmination of two or three missions of working with the Qunari to establish an alliance. Because this mission is terrible all around. Also Bull should of made the choice not the Inquisitor based off how the previous two or three missions went.

[DarthLaxian]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Your inability to put aside your personal feelings in such a situation compromises your ability to command. You are unfit to lead. 

 

 

If I thought I could trust the Qunari not to backstab me as soon as I beat the big bad, I might agree...but I don't trust them at all! (don't even trust Bull much - until he shows me that he has been de-converting himself from the Qun for a long time...hell he is more Tal'Vashot than most Tal'Vashot...

[myahele]

the alliance with the qunari will probably end up being similar to the Hawke and Arishok. They'll respect the inquisition, but not the rest of thedas which they deem as dangerous and need to be educated 

[Suhiira]

The Qun is ultimately all about "the needs of the many" and is more then willing to sacrifice, hell brainwash or execute, "the one".

And anyone/anything that doesn't agree with that philosophy two, and only two, options - convert or die.

 

So while an alliance with the Qun may have been useful in the short run its exactly the same as making a deal with a demon in my mind.

[raynbow]

Chargers all the way. I just can't get behind the Qun. I am one of the many it is not for.

[PocketDragon]

That's just my opinion after the mission. During the mission I find the idea of an alliance with the Qunari to be more trouble than its worth. They are already fighting my enemy without me asking them to. Why should I take on all the political bs that will come with a formal alliance?

 

 

 

 

I'd say the Qun failed its soldiers with poor scouting and underestimating the Venatori forces. Bull deferred his choice to me. I could not make the choice without his referral. If Bull didn't want to be a "traitor" he would of sided with the Qun. The objective was to stop the red lyrium trade. The immediate trade is stifled, and regardless of your choice the port is taken and rebuilt afterwards.

 

 

 

 

One that doesn't want the world to end? Are they gonna call off the alliance because they lose one dreadnought later down the road? The way they hyped up the inevitable doom if Tevinter continued getting red lyrium sounded like to me they would be happy losing a dreadnought to prevent it.

 

 

This mission is irritatingly stupid tho. I think this should of been the culmination of two or three missions of working with the Qunari to establish an alliance. Because this mission is terrible all around. Also Bull should of made the choice not the Inquisitor based off how the previous two or three missions went.

 

 

Please do not black your writing it is illegible maybe that was its intent?

 

They are fighting your enemy, because Iron Bull their agent brought you a mission based on his, your report. A previous mission of scouting was done on his behalf prior to this mission. No alliance is more trouble then it is worth, if you aren't considering supposed additional information, which wasn't relevant at this direct mission time.

 

The Qun did not fail it's soliders, when it needed your hand to defeat a common goal, one of which you quickly retract after making plans of working together prior.

 

Iron Bull is branded a traitor, because of his failure on this mission, and the supposed stockholm syndrome.

 

Please play the mission, gaining all the previous information. Outside of any ridiculous background of why they are so evil. But unlike anybody else within the relams from common bigoted elves, mages/templars, and everybody else who is opposition to the Chantry.

 

The Inquisitors goal is to seal the breach, admittedly, before becoming an institution of fundamentalism once becoming Andraste's herald.

 

The Qun are no different then any other race on offer throughout this game, they see weakness, they attack, they allign when it suits them. So evilly a dictatorship, but unlike the mages and templars. Every power here does the same, trying to bring about their own goals, when propagating their own agenda's, but always within that name of peace.

 

It was however your job to be better or different.

[Hurbster]

Yeah, so screw the mind-controlling bastards, right ?

 

Some of the posters in this thread already seemed to have had the qamek diet already.

 

Or they got caught verbal diarrhea  from a dirty tamassan...

[PocketDragon]

Yeah, so screw the mind-controlling bastards, right ?

 

Some of the posters in this thread already seemed to have had the qamek diet already.

 

Or they got caught verbal diarrhea  from a dirty tamassan...

 

So different from the elves, the templars, the mages?

 

The point is valid when being taught here to hate, but to then love one of their own. Because if he can change they cannot. Because they are all a bunch of backstabbling liar dicators, who won't help you at your request.

 

Because no different to anybody else their agenda was always invasion and they must be purged for your personal sense of peace. Lets all start with genocide, then take further relations from there.

 

The point is the scripting, was somewhat wrong here? if you conclude those few aren't worth the many from personal distrust.

 

There is only one conclusion to this mission otherwise you wouldn't trust any of the backstabbers in this game.   Start by purging the elves, then the mages, wardens and finally the templars.. When converting every kingdom to Andraste

[Milana]

I pretty much always sacrifice the Chargers. In the end they go out doing their jobs. As Cole later points out they don't have any regrets in how it plays out. And by doing their jobs they help ensure that the Qunari enter into their first ever real alliance with a foreign power which is a HUUUGE step for them diplomatically.

 

I honestly consider it the first step in the process of getting them to come to the table with more foreign powers and even possibly stabilize the international communities. Done correctly the Inquisition has developed alliances with the Free Marches, Ferelden, Orlais, Orzammar, and the Qunari. These represent the majority of known world powers. The Inquisition could then act as an intermediary to help them settle their differences.

Cole says it in Iron bull's presence yes. But if Bull's not in the party Cole reveals last Krem's thoughts: “Copper on the lips, Dalish lies dead-eyed beside me. He’ll come. He’ll call. He won’t leave us. Horns pointing up.”

 

Its not as if i ever sacrificed them but after this i cant understand how others can  

[PocketDragon]

Isn't Cole that optional sprite who talks mostly in emo gibberish.

 

That others their through bigotry always want to excommunicate or kill, with only Solas's real approval to keeping within the inquistion.

 

Copper on the lips, Dalish lies dead-eyed beside me. He’ll come. He’ll call. He won’t leave us. Horns pointing up.”

 

A metaphor for Corypheus, Iron bull, or whoever else might be entertained through his satire not saytr, those dank pranks.

 

Poetically Life's Ending... The reaper

[Milana]

Isn't Cole that optional sprite who talks mostly in emo gibberish.

 

That others their through bigiotry always want to excommunicate or kill, with only Solas's real approval to keeping within the inquistion.

 

Copper on the lips, Dalish lies dead-eyed beside me. He’ll come. He’ll call. He won’t leave us. Horns pointing up.”

 

A metaphor for Corypheus, Iron bull, or whoever else might be entertained through his Satire those dank pranks

He is a spirit of compassion to be exact yes. But he doesnt speak glibberish( he gets in peoples heads thats how he knows what they are thinking). And as for many companion's reactions it seems that he speaks the truth.

I dont see how its a metaphor for Corypheus or anybody else but Iron bull. Horns pointing up is the Chargers' slogan after all.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

My Quizzy is romancing Bull, To me it didn't make sense to save the dreadnaught. It had already destroyed the boat with the red lyrium so, that was done. Why would I kill the Chargers, whom I know to be a skilled, reliable, loyal comapny for a ship full of quinari that may be as hot headed as the old Arishok was. Bull has been pretending to be Tal Vashoth for a while and, already btoke some of the Qun by allowing  emotional ties in the relationship. (I cemented the romance before doing Demands of the Qun.)

 

In hindsight, I made the right choice, Bull ultimately is happier, even Varric reminds him (in banter) that he made the right choice. Bull is just proving that Tal Vashoth does not have to mean badit or murderer, you can be Tal Vashoth and be a good person too.

[PocketDragon]

In metaphorical relation to Iron Bull..

 

Poetically Life's ending. The reaper

 

Sorry it takes me time to compile, I hate the font size being partially dyslexic tend to post first, edit later.

 

A word of comfort to the fallen, giving heart in solace.. 

[Machina Obscura]

Easily keep the chargers. In keeping the chargers you get a merc captain whose loyalty is no longer divided, and soldiers in the field. Much better than any hypothetical aid from a historically uncertain and aggressive ally who has a philosophy as entrenched as the Qun. Add to this that having Qunari allies would seriously affect they way your current allies would feel and behave, and you have disaster waiting to happen. 

[Hawklyn Starblade]

The Qunari alliance stops half of Denerim from being burned down by the Venatori.

Only if you choose the alliance, in my non alliance games the only trouble in Denerim is the castle mission. If you ally with the qun half of Denerim burns.

[KaiserShep]

Only if you choose the alliance, in my non alliance games the only trouble in Denerim is the castle mission. If you ally with the qun half of Denerim burns.

I didn't pay as much attention on my first playthrough, but after completing this operation yesterday it occurred to me how bogus these claims that Denerim burns no matter what really are. Why the hell would half of Ferelden's major city burn and we're totally in the dark about that, even though Alistair does contact us about Denerim regardless? I guess with all the hubbub he forgot to say "Oh by the way Denerim is pretty much half destroyed. It's like deja vu, I swear."

[Raikas]

So different from the elves, the templars, the mages?

 

From an RG perspective I think it depends.  We see both reasonable and extreme examples of elves, mages and templars, but Bull is our one example of the "reasonable" Qunari, and if you've had the conversation with him about what would happen if the Qun invaded (where he shares that the mages would all be killed and the snarky characters like Varric and Sera would be drugged), I think you probably would see them differently, since even the more neutral members of the Qun expect extreme results.

 

Similarly, I think a Vashoth inquisitor (especially if they're a mage), would be in a unique position to be especially suspicious of the Qunari.

 

On the flip side, if you didn't have that conversation with Bull or you any other race background, I can see where you might take them as not being any different from the rest (although I think it's reasonable for mage elf and humans to be wary as well).

 

 

The point is the scripting, was somewhat wrong here? if you conclude those few aren't worth the many from personal distrust.

There is only one conclusion to this mission otherwise you wouldn't trust any of the backstabbers in this game.   Start by purging the elves, then the mages, wardens and finally the templars.. When converting every kingdom to Andraste

 

This is again dependant on dialogue choices - picking all the non-believer (or skeptic) dialogue options makes the whole enterprise seem less religious.  So while you certainly could get a reading where the Inquisition is an aggressive religious organization, I don't see any reason to extrapolate that to every possible world state.

[Darth Death]

Yes, the decision was a hard one.

 

 

Do I save the congregated freak show or savor the might of the Qun's navy?

 

 

Decisions, decisions.... (/sarcasm)