341 réponses à ce sujet

[Big I]

I don't think I'm capable of making an inquisitor cold blooded enough to sacrifice the chargers, lol

 

They knew the risks. It's not like the Inquisition was paying them to bake bread.

 

Sacrificing the Chargers means saving the dreadnought, and it's crew. It means getting the opportunity to stop the Venatori from trying to burn Denerim to the ground, and to completely destroy the Venatori spy network. By talking with Iron Bull you hear that the qunari are very helpful off screen in helping the Inquisition and it's allies. It means the qunari making an alliance with a foreign power for the first time in history. Sacrificing the Chargers is the right call.

 

From a gameplay perspective, you don't lose out on anything if you wait til after What Pride Had Wrought to do Demands of the Qun. Also, I'm not really sure how we ended up wiping out the Chargers exactly? I thought they were more than the six or so people Bull introduced us to, a few dozen at least. Were they all on that hill? Did they disband after Rocky, Grim etc died?

[Berkilak]

A few dudes that couldn't hold against a force that would take me a few seconds to mop up? Or an alliance with a nation of extremely organized, technologically advanced giants? Decisions...

[MindWeb]

Yes, because I am a pragmatic commander who cares more for the fate of the world than my personal life. If your Inquisitor is too weak to make such choices then that's okay, the game does not punish you for it. 

And I'm sure Orlais and Fereldan will just love your Inquisitor when the Qunari decide to invade and use their agents in Skyhold to gain a tactical advantage.

[Eterna]

And I'm sure Orlais and Fereldan will just love your Inquisitor when the Qunari decide to invade and use their agents in Skyhold to gain a tactical advantage.

 

Your head cannon is not relevant to me. 

[AshenEndymion]

No, those tell us that the alliance still helps serve the Qun's purpose for it. The moment they no longer benefit, they will break it off.

 
So, question:  How does this make the Qunari any different from Orlais, Ferelden, Tevinter, or any other nation/organization in Thedas?
 
If the alliance with the Qunari stopped being beneficial to the Inquisition, do you think they'd say "well, we should stick with this because (reasons)" or would they say "this isn't worth the cost anymore, let's scrap it"?  More than likely it'd be the latter.  The only significant difference from the rest of Thedas is that the Qun is probably better at knowing when the costs have outweighed the benefits...

[Wittand25]

If this game had any sense of consequence for choice saving the Chargers and betraying your budding Alliance with the Qunari should have caused them to retaliate against you. But this game is all about good feels and unrealistic outcomes, so of course no shits are given. 

With what ?

There are no Quanari soldiers even remotely in the region and any attempt of a Quanari army reaching Skyhold would have them either marching through several hostile nations across half the continent or require quite the sea voyage and a march through half of Ferelden only to stand in front of a very defensible fortress.

[Apoptomon]

I figured that my (human) quisy trusted Qunari as far as he could throw them (the Qun being a foreign concept), Bull seemed happy where he was (and, IMO, in denial about being not very Qun), and I had come to like Krem and co, so I felt like saving the Chargers was the better option.

[Eterna]

With what ?

There are no Quanari soldiers even remotely in the region and any attempt of a Quanari army reaching Skyhold would have them either marching through several hostile nations across half the continent or require quite the sea voyage and a march through half of Ferelden only to stand in front of a very defensible fortress.

 

Who says they must attack Skyhold? The entire purpose of this game is spreading your organization across southern Thedas. 

[Alasea]

First time i chose the Chargers, second time i chose the alliance with the qun. Simply because you get an tier 3 masterwork schematic weapon in an wartable mission questline after. lol

[Biotic Flash Kick]

If this game had any sense of consequence for choice saving the Chargers and betraying your budding Alliance with the Qunari should have caused them to retaliate against you. But this game is all about good feels and unrealistic outcomes, so of course no shits are given. 

qunari are a bit busy getting facerolled by tevinter

i'm sure the alliance they would never honor would be amazing.

 

also, let's be real fuckign fair for a moment.

 

Tevinter is facerolling the qunari.

Do you REALLY think the Qun is gunna go:

 

INQUISTION DOESNT WANT TO BE OUR FRIENDS. LET'S WAGE WAR ON THEM AND GET DP'D BY THE INQUISTION AND TEVINTER ALL WHILE ISABELA WIPES HER ASS WITH THE PAGES OF THE TOME OF KOSLAN

 

yeeeeeaaaaah no 

 

 

the ONLY REASON the qunari sent two guys after bull was because they were so tied up in tevinter all they could spare was a dreadnought and 2 shitty assassins. 
especially on how badly kirkwall wrecked them. 

 

yes let's give the qunari more unneeded losses. 

[Eterna]

qunari are a bit busy getting facerolled by tevinter

i'm sure the alliance they would never honor would be amazing.

 

 

The Qunari do honor the Alliance. This is evident through wartable missions. They even send you gifts. 

[shajs]

I couldn't kill Krem. just... no way. sob.

 

But I think I should've been punished for putting my personal feelings and Bull's friendship above the alliance with the Qun. That's not something a good leader does.

 

Although the plan sucked. Gosh.

[AshenEndymion]

If this game had any sense of consequence for choice saving the Chargers and betraying your budding Alliance with the Qunari should have caused them to retaliate against you. But this game is all about good feels and unrealistic outcomes, so of course no shits are given.

 
Who says the Qunari don't retaliate?  All they need to do is place Ben-Hassrath agents within the Inquisition(at various levels and locations), and wait...  Until those agents reveal themselves, no one could really know whether or not they were in place...

[Eterna]

Who says the Qunari don't retaliate?  All they need to do is place Ben-Hassrath agents within the Inquisition(at various levels and locations), and wait...  Until those agents reveal themselves, no one could really know whether or not they were in place...

 

That's head cannon and doesn't matter because it has zero effect on your game. 

[AshenEndymion]

That's head cannon and doesn't matter because it has zero effect on your game.

 
And claiming that there is no retaliation because there is no effect to the game is as much "headcanon" as the claim that spies infiltrated the Inquisition.

[Sepewrath]

That's the beauty about these games...

 

Even though you take on a "leader" role, you can still be irresponsible, selfish, illogical and make poor decisions based on personal feelings.

Which someone as a leader can choose to do. I believe as a leader, to really have your mens loyalty and respect, you cant throw them away at a moments notice. You can send them places where they may die, but to actively sacrifice them when you have a chance to save them, is a bad leader. Particularly with the Qunari, I don't think there are any guarantees with them, certainly not enough to dispose of loyal soldiers.

[Ryzaki]

Because there have been so many chances in the past. When a foreign power like the Qunari, out of the blue, says "Hey we want to talk," you take that in a heartbeat and try to cement something that ends up with them not being such colossal pricks. Saving the Chargers pretty much guarantees that the Qunari will never view the rest of Thedas as anything more then a land full of barbarians that needs to be exterminated.

 

The Qunari have shown time and time again they are not to be trusted. They don't see the rest of Thedas as equals. That's not gonna change by the PC bending over backwards.

 

Hell your reaction to being all "yeah right" to Bull is him going "yeah that's usually a good call." and then when crap hits the fan after the Qunari kept me in the dark they want me to pay the price? Hell no. If that's the kind of alliance they're offering they can cram it.

[Wittand25]

Who says they must attack Skyhold? The entire purpose of this game is spreading your organization across southern Thedas. 

How else could they retaliate ?

 

With their spies ?

Risking several more of them deflecting to the inquisition (especially Viddathari will think twice about their loyalty when tasked with working against an organisation that is currently working hard to save their very homes from demons).

By diplomacy ?

Pretty hard since they are less of a diplomatic power in southern Thedas than a random farmer.

[AshenEndymion]

The Qunari have shown time and time again they are not to be trusted. They don't see the rest of Thedas as equals. That's not gonna change by the PC bending over backwards.

 

It's funny....  One can say the same thing about mages.  

 

And yet some people see mages setting the foundation for their ruling Southern Thedas with their "College" as a good thing...

[Ryzaki]

It's funny....  One can say the same thing about mages.  

 

And yet some people see mages setting the foundation for their ruling Southern Thedas with their "College" as a good thing...

 

Eh I'm pro circle so *shrug*

[Sepewrath]

It's funny....  One can say the same thing about mages.  

 

And yet some people see mages setting the foundation for their ruling Southern Thedas with their "College" as a good thing...

The difference between mages and the Qunari are the mages are individuals, you cant just chock them up to one group mind. That is exactly what the Qunari are, if they decide that don't need you or can do better than you, your taking them all on. Mages, are like any other person, individuals who may or may not stick with you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's funny....  One can say the same thing about mages.  

 

And yet some people see mages setting the foundation for their ruling Southern Thedas with their "College" as a good thing...

Not really. Other than Tevinter, the mages haven't gone around saying how they are going to conquer Thedas like the Qunari have. 

[mcsupersport]

LOL, as a leader I don't want EITHER Tiventer or the Qun to win or be helped in any meaningful way while MY Inquisition is organizing and gaining power.  Why the heck would I WANT to help one of the two groups likely to attack me in the future win a war that is bleeding men, machines, and resources from their empire??  I want to remain nominally friendly with both, not active hostile, to either while I build my base of power, gain alliances with enemies of both and generally position myself to destroy the winner of their war.  So once I take care of Cory, and in the future either Tev or Qun wins, I can step in and wipe out or subdue them.  Having both Tev and the Qun having to position troops as if I MAY be hostile to them, means their troop strength in their actual war is lessened, thereby increasing the length of the war in general, which weakens both, this is what I want.

 

So anyone who allies with the Qun, is NOT looking out for the future of their group/country/world.  Short sighted, at best, Naive, or just living in a world of koombyeyah lets all be friends and get along, mister rogers world...

 

 

[Ieldra]

So again, your personal feelings get in the way of logic. 

 

I judge you as unfit to lead Ieldra! 

Logic does not impose goals. Alliances serve a purpose, and this one would have insignificant benefits. Can the qunari provide magical assitance? No. Would they send an army? Well, I don't know when I make the decision, but even *if* they sent an army, could I trust them not to stay past their welcome? Most emphatically: No.

 

An ally you can't trust is almost as bad as an enemy. I would always have to spend resources to watch my back. I'm not going to antagonize them needlessly, but I also won't do anything that helps them conquering the world.

 

Also, by refusing to sacrifice the Chargers, I deny the qunari a valuable asset and make it my own.

[errantknight]

 

Any commander or leader worth their salt would have sacrificed a few mercenaries for such an Alliance.

 

 

Yes, because it's perfectly okay to sacrifice the multitude of people manning the Dreadnaught.

 

Those are Qunari who who quite recently occupied another city in my inquisitor's home country and whom he fully expects to have to fight at some point in the future. Of course he values their lives less than a mercenary group under his command. He wasn't that keen on risking giving them a foothold in the first place.