341 réponses à ce sujet

[Navasha]

Let me see if I can help you PocketDragon better understand my point of view.  

 

Imagine you are tasked with driving a suitcase to a destination and your reward will be $100,000.   You are given the route you must drive, which is a single lane road on the side of a mountain.   You start down the road, when suddenly you notice your friend walking beside the road and another vehicle suddenly coming your way.   The vehicle happens to be a small bus carrying convicted murderers.  You only have two options available.    

1) You could swerve your car, killing your friend and avoid the bus.   You save the dozen convicted murderers and the damage to your car wouldn't be that severe, allowing you to continue on to your task and claim your reward.

2) You could simply hit the bus forcing it off the road and over the cliff.   You will have saved your friend, but totaled your car so you won't get your reward.   You also caused the deaths of a dozen convicted murderers.

 

While it seems like their SHOULD be other options... there isn't.    Just like in the game, YOU have to choose between two given options without the possibility of thinking of an alternative.     Which do you choose?

[Pluvie]

Well if Qunari have dreadnoughts that do down instantly against 3 crappy Venatori spellbinders.. Chargers for life!

 

Plus that Elf is reeeeally annoying

[Imryll]

I am amazed at the lack of logic expressed by your descision of sacrificing your goal's which was too complete a mission.

 

...

 

The right thing, is obviously succeeding in objectives, otherwise why attempt them?

 

You attempt them because they appear to align with your overall goals. You change plans when that no longer appears to be the case.  My inquisitor's goal is rarely just to complete a mission. Missions have derivative value. Evaluation of costs and benefits needs to be ongoing.

[Wittand25]

The whole mystic meg crystal ball can see the Qunari attacking nonsense, is drivel to this situation. It is however racisim, to a way of thinking different then yours, which makes you no better.

 

Are you calling every single Quanari in all three games a liar ?

 

All of them (except Tallis maybe who happens to be a professional liar) flat out tell you that the goal for Quanari culture is to conquer all of Thedas.

 

And that the Quanari will turn on anybody as soon as they are more dangerous than useful is proven by the assassins who come after Bull and strike when the inquisitor is present risking his/her life and all hope to seal the rifts too.

[Ieldra]

Seems like people are taking this a little too seriously. From a storytelling perspective, I always side with the Ben-Hasserath, as that is what will benefit the Inquisition, Qunari, and all of Thedas the most.

Benefit is a matter of perspective. From my perspective it is of no benefit to "all of Thedas" if I strengthen the qunari, nor it is a benefit to the Inquisition, except in the very short term. Also, given their stated objective of conquering the world, I'm actually not interested at all in any action that benefits the qunari, and would see it, if such resulted from the necessary evil of an alliance, as an undesirable side effect.

[PocketDragon]

I simply stating facts. I am not ruled by emotional nonsensically drivel.

 

The mission has two objectives. These are making a Qun Ben-Hesserth alliance and destroying Red Lyrium accessing the globe from a naval port. Both of these objectives are failed if you cannot contend with the lost of a few of Iron Bull's men lives to achieve this mission's objective.

 

Ultimately the reason for your attempted quest was to stop Red Lyrium. I could not care wether a few Chargers died, or a Dreadnaught sank.  Upon saving the Chargers, the Red Lyrium trade continues, as stated within the mission.

 

Qun possibly doing this, or that within, years, months, at the end of the game, has absolutely no real affect upon the goal of stopping Red Lyrium currently. The Alliance is a bonus, but a better option then saving a few men here. Because with that alliance comes respect, title, alliegance, reward. From both Iron Bull and the Qun.

 

There is no way that by making another enemy, whom may side with my enemy, is the right way to rule any kingdom, espeacially not one that is at war.

 

When playing this mission. You are given two attempts to save the lives of Iron Bull's men before ultimately making the final descision. Watch Iron Bull hesitate upon the first attempt at trying to save his men. He also tells you what they're willing to achieve. There is also a reason why games are 18.

 

I really have no idea, why, logic is absolutely so profound to some people?

[Laughing_Man]

I simply stating facts. I am not ruled by emotional nonsensically drivel.

 

The mission has two objectives. These are making a Qun Ben-Hesserth alliance and destroying Red Lyrium accessing the globe from a naval port. Both of these objectives are failed if you cannot contend with the lost of a few lives to achieve this mission's objective.

 

Ultimately the reason for your attempted quest was to stop Red Lyrium. I could not care wether a few Chargers died, or a Dreadnaught sank.  Upon saving the Chargers, the Red Lyrium trade continues, as stated within the mission.

 

Qun possibly doing this, or that within, years, months, at the end of the game, has absolutely no real affect upon the goal of stopping Red Lyrium currently. The Alliance is a bonus, but a better option then saving a few men here. Because with that alliance comes respect, title, allegiance, reward. From both Iron Bull and the Qun.

 

There is no way that by making another enemy whom may side with my enemy, is the right way to rule any kingdom, espeacially not one that is at war.

 

When playing this mission. You are given two attempts to save the lives of Iron Bull's men before ultimately making the final descision. Watch Iron Bull hesitate upon the first attempt.

 

I really have no idea, why, logic is absolutely so profound to some people?

 

Well, you don't really stop the Red Lyrium trade no matter what you do. At best you take down one operation.

 

And considering how laughably ineffective a Qunari dreadnought seems to be against a few mages, well, I was not impressed.

 

You won't get any kind of political capital from anyone because of allying with the Qunari, it will just mark you as insane in the eyes of every serious political power out there aside from the Qunari. It's quite clear that a Qunari invasion is on the horizon not long after this game, the amount of blood a full invasion will shed, is quite possibly bigger than everything we saw because of Coryfifish.

 

So saying: "I don't care what happens next" is quite foolish. You are not the commander of a few man in a unit, you are the head of a powerful organization.

You play strategy, not small unit tactics.

[BioWareMod03]

Hey everyone, Let's try to keep a civil tone in here. Thank you.

[simpatikool]

When I did this mission, I did not think it as Bull's Men or the Qun. I took it from the perspective that is was a couple of guys, or  real allied nation. I took the allied nation. Screw Bull and his guys and screw the Qun.

[PocketDragon]

Well, you don't really stop the Red Lyrium trade no matter what you do. At best you take down one operation.

 

And considering how laughably ineffective a Qunari dreadnought seems to be against a few mages, well, I was not impressed.

 

You won't get any kind of political capital from anyone because of allying with the Qunari, it will just mark you as insane in the eyes of every serious political power out there aside from the Qunari. It's quite clear that a Qunari invasion is on the horizon not long after this game, the amount of blood a full invasion will shed, is quite possibly bigger than everything we saw because of Coryfifish.

 

So saying: "I don't care what happens next" is quite foolish. You are not the commander of a few man in a unit, you are the head of a powerful organization.

You play strategy, not small unit tactics.

 

The purpose was stopping Red Lyrium from escaping from a naval port. We all know it has escaped, and Corny'heal'us will be alive again making more zombies for any sequels to come according to your reasoning.

 

That same said remark was equally as laughable, at how utterly abysmal those Chargers were against that same threat.

 

Why have a playable class as the Qunari an Inquisitor, if your gonna be racist  towards them?

[Laughing_Man]

The purpose was stopping it from escaping from a naval port. We all know it has escaped, and corny'heal'us will be alive again making more zombies for any sequels to come according to your reasoning.

 

That same said remark was equally as laughable, at how utterly abysmal those Chargers were against that same threat.

 

Why have a playable class as the Qunari an Inquisitor, if your gonna be a racist?

 

Please continue to enlighten us

 

So you stopped *one* shipment from escaping, and killed a few dealers?

Good for you. It didn't really change anything in the larger scheme of things.

 

The chargers are simple, you know what you are paying for and you know what you are getting. They don't claim to be anything more than above average soldiers. With the Qunari there are always strings attached, and you can trust the "religious" ones as far as you can throw them - which is not very far.

 

It has nothing to do with being a "racist", if someone tells me that he is religious, and that his religion allows him to disregard any agreement or indeed just about anything for the "Great Certainty", I would keep him always at range and where I can clearly see his hands.

 

I did play a Vashoth inquisitor, but he had nothing to do with the religion of the qunbots. He was just a horned tall humanoid.

[Clark]

How could I risk an alliance with a nation of Qunari for a handful of mercenaries? How could I sacrifice the hundreds (or VERY conservatively at least dozens) of Qunari lives on that ship in order to save a few mercenaries whose very mission is to protect them? I don't care that the game ends up not really rewarding that decision. I've never made a character that would make such a ridiculous decision to save the Chargers.

 

I have to say though, this scene and Hawke or Warden choice felt so contrived and artificial... While I think they work in theory, the execution of these scenes felt so false. There were just a few Tevinter soldiers. At the level my character was I could have soloed them leaving my party behind to watch the cliff. I just didn't buy the scene at all. On paper it's a good conflict, but I wish the designers had done something different to make the stakes translate visually. 

 

But the Warden and Hawke scene, I didn't understand why either was asking me if they should stay behind. I'm not the boss of the Wardens and I'm not Hawke's boss either. There's no reason for them to ask for my permission if they have a death wish.

[Ryzaki]

And that the Quanari will turn on anybody as soon as they are more dangerous than useful is proven by the assassins who come after Bull and strike when the inquisitor is present risking his/her life and all hope to seal the rifts too.

 

To be fair about the assassins that was pretty much making bull being Tal Vasoth official. Even Bull says that. The assassins probably were two people who had outlived their usefulness and got a one shot redemption "chance" if they killed Bull.

[The Baconer]

**** the Qunari. Even on a practical level, it never feels like a high-stakes decision because Cory's forces spend the entire game getting brutalized post-Haven.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the problem of a Ben-Hassrath agent in my midst is resolved, and I get new intel on how to deal with Dreadnoughts. Mission accomplished :>

[Laughing_Man]

How could I risk an alliance with a nation of Qunari for a handful of mercenaries?

 

That's just it, I didn't believe for a second that the "alliance" was real, more like a temporary period of cooperation to allow Qunari spies to move and operate more easily under the banner of the Inquisition.

[The Oracle]

I chose the Qun first time around thinking of how much better an alliance would be to the Inquisition. Turns out to be sh*t as you gain nothing from it, I've lost most of Bull's banter now with other party members and he's been reduced to a boring a-hole. Second playthrough and I chose the Chargers. The game's been much more interesting because of it and Bull actually has some personality now. In terms of gameplay, Chargers win every time.

[Mummy22kids]

I choose the Qun almost every time (only once have I gone with the chargers).  My reasoning is that the Qun is a powerful alliance for the inquisition and I don't want Red Lyrium spreading.  TBH, if you take Cole with you and IB after this quest you find (for their banter) that both decisions are equally good/bad for Iron Bull.

[PocketDragon]

So you stopped *one* shipment from escaping, and killed a few dealers?

Good for you. It didn't really change anything in the larger scheme of things.

 

The chargers are simple, you know what you are paying for and you know what you are getting. They don't claim to be anything more than above average soldiers. With the Qunari there are always strings attached, and you can trust the "religious" ones as far as you can throw them - which is not very far.

 

It has nothing to do with being a "racist", if someone tells me that he is religious, and that his religion allows him to disregard any agreement or indeed just about anything for the "Great Certainty", I would keep him always at range and where I can clearly see his hands.

 

I did play a Vashoth inquisitor, but he had nothing to do with the religion of the qunbots. He was just a horned tall humanoid.

 

It is not one shipment when the port remains open. If the Dreadnaught is sunk, more ships are passing the Red Lyrium trade daily, infecting thousands from all around the globe. Please play the mission again for you to grasp the impact of the scenario.

 

The Chargers are soldiers and they are not very good ones according to Iron Bull. Just a company of mecenaries doing an operation in war, whom are prepared to, live, or die according to descision made. Descisions in game should be based on completing objectives, or you will not succeed.

 

Rascism is an adverse view towards any race based biasly on hate and ignorance. Apparent here by misjudgement. However if there is any relation problems, you are in a much better position to reform. Once you have gained title, respect, alliegance, and reward, holding onto an active agent whom has not been exiled.

[Scorn]

I saved the chargers, allying yourself with the qunari will probably ****** of tevinter and while they have glaring flaws they don't threaten humankind like the qunari do.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

The attack on Kirkwall was not authorized by the Qun. It was an independent decision made by the Arishok. The Qunari on the boat were not responsible. 

 

Seriously, go to 2:57 of this video if you don't believe me. Varric straight up tells you that the Qun didn't authorize the attack. 

 

yes but the fact of the matter is that the arishok can make decisions regardless of what the qun demands 

 

also let's get real if a couple spellbinders can wreck a dreadnought Solas/Vivenne/Dorian could defeat a fleet.

Fire mines on the boat? fire mine + blackpowder = big boom 

Fire storm from solas would wreck quite a few

all while dorian raises the dead qunari to fight agaisnt the living qunari and vivi could just time dilation field all incoming attacks 

 

fire staffs and energy barrage = dead dreadnoughts

 

qunari arent worth anything

kill them and move on 

[Gileadan]

Qun go boom.

 

One of my first and top priorities is always "bring my own guys back home intact". That decision was a no-brainer for me, though I have to admit, it seemed a very forced situation. The time that was spent babbling about how the dreadnought was in danger and all blah blah blah was longer than it would have taken me to sprint over to that bunch of Venatori and spell purge the living bejeezus out of them. Thumbs down for the forced drama.

 

And I take a bunch of mercenaries - who, I imagine, will be pretty darn loyal after this mission - over a dreadnought of indeterminate usefulness and loyalty. What would that thing be good for? Attacking Coryphywaffles' navy? If he had any... and it wasn't crewed with too many mages?

 

Plus, none of my characters plans to convert to the Qun, and I doubt that the Qunari are particularly good at coexisting. In that case, one less dreadnought. Gotta start somewhere.

[PocketDragon]

The alliance gained is worth 4 war table operations, that I know of?

 

The chargers on the other hand provide mostly only emotion?

 

Chargers or the Ship they both got crushed to the same attack...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So this thread was Godwined on page 2, I see. How much did I miss?

 

However since it was, and that in modern fantasy literature we are always fighting the nazis, and Corypheus is Hitler, this makes an alliance with the Qunari an alliance with the Soviets.

 

I would prefer that Tevinter and the Qunari continue fighting among themselves. It keeps both of them occupied in a stalemate and their attention drawn away from me while I rebuild the Empire of Orlais, Fereldan, and the Free Marches. I do not want a Qunari foothold on the mainland.

[Nisiar]

I played both scenario and I'm pretty sure the mission to destroy the red lyrium is successful either way. Smugglers ship blows up and everyone cheers the same way. It's the aftermath of choosing to save the dreadnought and Qun alliance or pull your men back.

Honestly it was a dumb plan with poor contingency and as someone mentioned, pretty artificial. As far as I'm concerned the Inquisition came thru with that bargain. Saving a dreadnought at cost of my men wasn't part of the deal and it was a risk they took. Like a poster said, I bring my guys back. I'd rather a better morale in my army than anot alliance with a group not known for making alliances and want to brainwash people.

My decision didn't even take into account IB. When he gave me the option to decide rather than acting as their commander that meant they were my men so I would need to consider for everyone.

Either choice can be justified as this thread shows. But to decide for the Qun is playing the Inquisitor as more ruthless imo which is perfectly fine as RP.

[PocketDragon]

The mission objective was to destroy the Red Lyrium Shipments via the Qun Dreadnaught. The Dreadnaught sinks a single ship containing Red Lyrium. When the Dreadnaught is sunk, the Red Lyrium trade commences, this is commented on in much detail throught the mission's course. If you had not bothered to press the x button. Iron bull hesitates immediately, once choosing the speech option, too signal the retreat of his men. Dialogue insues with what the reprecussions of this action will have. Finally after converstaion you are given the option of which choice to take. Please play the senario again for all the information you have missed

 

Finally later on. You go back and destroy the red/templar port which had previously been locked. Had the Dreadnaught been destroyed those ships would be sailing away until that time. But without any Dreadnaught to destroy them. The Qun later help rebuild the red/templar port as an active port via a war table operation amongst many other ben-hesserth missions.

 

But you are probably so attached to pixels, when hating on Qun, whom for some reason will take over the world becoming Cornyhealus the second. Jeopardising the Tevinter or whatever other drivelled excuses have been misinformed. Both the Tevinter and the Pentaghasts you can allign with aswell as the Qun at the same time.

 

I will leave you to figure out how to gain everybody.