Alliance & Juggernaut > A few people.
Besides, I want my qunari to be just that. Qunari. Not buffy oxemen who happen to belong to a different race, but to reflect a completely different culture. And to do that intensely (that's why for me, Sten > IB). So no, I ain't making bull vasoth.
A question; why would people who dislike/distrust the qunari even do Demands of the Qun at all? Can't you just refuse to do the mission at all when Bull brings it up?
The thing is I was considering the alliance until I got to the mission me and bull was telling them how risky the plan was etc but the Qunari are like whats the problem? Everything will turn out fine bro you don't know what you are talking about.
Putting that and the history of the Qunari and my character is a Qunari Mage I made the decision to save the chargers if they are not willing to listen to an "ally" about how risky a plan is they are not worth my time considering they want me to pay the price for their bloody mistake. Plus they refer us non qunari even during the mission as "them". Hell if you know the meaning of bas it just shows you what they think of other nations.
I've done both, and can't really say which is preferable because other than different dialogue points in the aftermath; I didn't feel as if it mattered one way or the other. Bull was pretty much the same fighter as he was before, choosing to allow the Chargers to die (and damn it all, where was the epic cut scene showing their last stand) amounted to little more than a hill of beans.
You have to be realist in this case. Bull's men where hired thugs something my Inquisitor who focused on military might barely need. However the intelligence and naval power of the Qun are worth the deal. Never had any doubt and never going to have, the Raison d'État is more important than any personal issue.
I recall you can turn the chargers into an actual company for the inquisition well someone mentioned you can do that I am currently doing a playthrough where I do as many war table missions as possible.
I sacrificed the Chargers once on my human mage, so I could get the Masterwork Archon Staff schematic. Won't be doing that again now that I know there are better staffs to get than it.
Sacrifice the Dreadnought:
Sacrifice the Chargers:
That's about everything. Forget the Archon staff or any other goodies that may be spoils of war. Think about it in terms of how you want your narrative to progress.
In which you are wrong. Your cost/benefit analysis is different from those of many other people, and you put different values into the variables. Logic only comes into it after you've put those values in.
I say you are ignoring important dimensions of the decision by refusing to consider anything else but the mission objective. The alliance does have value, and so does the mission objective, but so do the lives of the Chargers, Bull's future, and the strategic, political and ideological ramifications of your decision. The weight you give to these elements determines what the logical decision is, but logic alone cannot determine the weights you give them.
Not at all I haven't play this game to completion, I cannot it is unplayable, because the HIGH DARGON achievement is broken and I missing my inquistor instructors who have vanished, I am level 23 having completed their quest and built their mats.
I could not care less for what some are saying is pointlessly gained from not having a romance. I know that the first throne I got fully upgraded was Qunari due their alliance, unlocking that achievement. I did not complete the 3 part Ben-hesserth mission because it was really confusing, and I wasn't going to reload @30+ hours of war table operations to attempt again. I have a new Ben-Hesserth war table operation from their alliegance. I have used the Qun as Allies in other indirect war table operations.
I played to win the objective, stopping the trade of Red Lyrium from the coast. This was more vaulable then the lives of soliders, who were there to complete the objective, and follow orders. Making future allies who directly benefited me more at the time of this mission. it wasn't my fault Iron Bull didn't lead his own company, provide them with the right gear, or anti mage training. Not to consider later sentiments.
Approval mostly means nothing, it was designed like court approval, mostly pointless. To get you relistening replaying every conversation spending more time playing. The same events occur mostly no matter what providing you make the big descisions correctly.
I am sorry that logic is so lost on some people
Save the Chargers every time. Added bonus if it pisses Tallis off (always choose that option for Hawke in the Keep as well).
A question; why would people who dislike/distrust the qunari even do Demands of the Qun at all? Can't you just refuse to do the mission at all when Bull brings it up?
A question; why would people who dislike/distrust the qunari even do Demands of the Qun at all? Can't you just refuse to do the mission at all when Bull brings it up?
And miss the Venatori blowing that Dreadnought?
Save the Chargers every time. Added bonus if it pisses Tallis off (always choose that option for Hawke in the Keep as well).
Well, it may not be that Tallis. Tallis is a title, like Sten or Hissrad.
We know that we're interacting with a Tallis, but is it that Tallis?
Not at all I haven't play this game to completion, I cannot it is unplayable, because the HIGH DARGON achievement is broken and I missing my inquistor instructors who have vanished, I am level 23 having completed their quest and built their mats.
I could not care less for what some are saying is pointlessly gained from not having a romance. I know that the first throne I got fully upgraded was Qunari due their alliance, unlocking that achievement. I did not complete the 3 part Ben-hesserth mission because it was really confusing, and I wasn't going to reload @30+ hours of war table operations to attempt again. I have a new Ben-Hesserth war table operation from their alliegance. I have used the Qun as Allies in other indirect war table operations.
I played to win the objective, stopping the trade of Red Lyrium from the coast. This was more vaulable then the lives of soliders, who were there to complete the objective, and follow orders. Making future allies who directly benefited me more at the time of this mission. it wasn't my fault Iron Bull didn't lead his own company, provide them with the right gear, or anti mage training. Not to consider later sentiments.
Approval mostly means nothing, it was designed like court approval, mostly pointless. To get you relistening replaying every conversation spending more time playing. The same events occur mostly no matter what providing you make the big descisions correctly.
I am sorry that logic is so lost on some people
As I said, you're taking the situation as a closed universe where nothing not explicitly presented within its context matters. I maintain that you're ignoring important dimensions of the decision.
Stupid Qunari with their job names. My name's Janitor, but so is my neighbor's.
I love how this is played off in the Qunari Inquisitor's storyline. Your merc company apparently has two former Ashaad's, referred to as Ashaad 1 and Ashaad 2.
As for the question why I would even start this mission: my Inquisitor does not want to be connected to the qunari in any way, but she also thinks she can't afford to ignore the possibility it might help her cause more than it harms further down the line. So we start the mission, but then....saving the Chargers AND turning the Bull away from the Qun - that's just too much weight added to the "benefit" side of not making an alliance, considering that that alliance in itself will cause almost as many problems as it solves even in the best case.
I know that Iron Bull is a mercenary or spy for the Ben Hassrath. Yet he is close to the people that work with him and you. It starts off as an job but then you start to care for one another. You treat people at work as your extended family in some cases. So watching him be concern. It is hard for me to sacrifice the chargers. I did do on one run just to see what would happen and honestly it wasn't all that special.
I missed going into the tavern and seeing Krem do this weird glitch by sitting up on the chair and then standing on it 
He sits back down unto it and it almost looks like he was caught do something bad 
As I said, you're taking the situation as a closed universe where nothing not explicitly presented within its context matters. I maintain that you're ignoring important dimensions of the decision.
Who are you to say anything about another persons thought process? Because that reportedly is an insult, you are no psycharist.
Important dimensions of this decision have been broken down many times. I am sorry that your logic cannot grasp the route my own decision's have made.
Save the chargers. It's the ben-hassrath who got the bad intel that led to this situation, that they turn around and insist you take the loss for it is a bit much, and not exactly endearing for the alliance.
That quest is awful anyway. Let's all just stand here and watch while our allies die (against like 5 guys!). You're totally railroaded into a binary choice, it's awful. It almost feels like a setup.
I am sorry that logic is so lost on some people
The feeling is mutual.
The feeling is mutual.
Logically speaking of course, because you have played the game to completion , having played the rest of the DA franchise.
Do you therefore consider yourself better at being lead through emotion when driven into any decision making here?
The logic of any decision made was to complete the attempted objective's? Within war there is sacrifice. When it means costing you the goal of completing your attempted course or objective. Sentimenality or emotion having lead you to personally choosing a different course, but this will cause you to fail at your set about objective's. Defying any attempted logic, because why set about to do something, if you are just going to fail at it?
The borg have arrived in the form of Ben-Hesserth, having an active agent in your midst whom will never converted to Andrastedom. Ships aren't immune to Wildfire. Naval ports operate in single shipments of row those boat operations. Mercenaries cry when they cannot win, expecting extra compensation for not doing their job's.
I understand the logic taken on this missions course, please enlighten Meh....
If romancing Bull, I say save the Chargers. Also, you gain Bull's longterm unwavering loyalty.
Otherwise, loyalty to the Qun will undermine any trust and confidence you take in his character. There's also the overall trustworthiness of the Qun itself to take into account. As it matters little in the game, you can tell them to sod off. However, if this were a real situation, that would only be a feasible option if you had more than enough forces already (which is unlikely at that point in the game).
So again, from a tactical point of view, stick with the Qun, unless you have the resources to avoid them (thus avoiding a "deal with the devil"). Then again, I may have just misread the situation, but I always got the sense that the Qun's motives were never good. Hell, even Sten expected to eventually face the Hero of Ferelden in the battlefield, and there's that whole half of DA2...
But from a character/story POV, I'll usually save the Chargers instead, and maybe head-canon that I was able to do both (as the only real fallout is what you see at the War Table).
- Concerning "the Spy Network" - anyone who thinks the Ben Hassrath isn't going to completely and utterly vet all information coming to you - is, hmm, naive at best.
You already HAVE a spy network. This crippled group of information brokers will tell you what you need to know - to manipulate you into doing what they want (like the Demands of the Qun quest itself). That quest is totally the Ben Hassrath manipulating you to achieve its goals.
- Concering "the Navy" - again, the Qunari are going to battle the Tevinter anyway. I did not chose the Qun Alliance - so I'd like someone to provide me with an in game example (I find War table missions completely applicable) where they "give you their navy".
This is total bs... they're not going to give you anything. They're going to do with their dreadnoughts what they've always done with their dreadnoughts... fight the Tevinters.
"Alliance" indeed.
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I sided with the Chargers because I felt it was completely and blatantly obvious that the Ben Hassrath committed Iron Bull to the mission for the very obvious reason of reminding him of his place.
If you side with the Qun - from all accounts he "IS" crushed and put back into his job.
Unacceptable.
Guest_Puddi III_*
Logically speaking of course, because you have played the game to completion , having played the rest of the DA franchise.
Do you therefore consider yourself better at being lead through emotion when driven into any decision making here?
The logic of any decision made was to complete the attempted objective's? Within war there is sacrifice. When it means costing you the goal of completing your attempted course or objective. Sentimenality or emotion having lead you to personally choosing a different course, but this will cause you to fail at your set about objective's. Defying any attempted logic, because why set about to do something, if you are just going to fail at it?
The borg have arrived in the form of Ben-Hesserth, having an active agent in your midst whom will never converted to Andrastedom. Ships aren't immune to Wildfire. Naval ports operate in single shipments of row those boat operations. Mercenaries cry when they cannot win, expecting extra compensation for not doing their job's.
I understand the logic taken on this missions course, please enlighten Meh....
Some things are more trouble than they are worth, and an "alliance" with the Qunari is one of them.
If I could get something like this without actually paying anything, that's okay, even though I'll continue to watch them for any sudden movements.
But if it actually costs the lives of loyal soldiers and has the potential to destroy the morale of one of my best agents (IB), well, that's not even a question for me.
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