132 réponses à ce sujet

[Vladivindel]

 I have done extensive research on gender in social culture and in video games. The Asari acording to lore have what can only be described medically as a "Selectivly transmorphic suedo male hermaphriditism with testosterone immunity" 

This means that in their default resting state, they have the secondary sex characteristics of a woman and have a vulva but instead of a ****** they have a male primary sex characteristic. Now I could ramble on about the medical aspect of this but I made this topic to discuss the cultural side. In the game the codex says that depending on the sexual partner asari undergo a morph or change so that they can mate with the partner. In the game there are several instances where asari are referred to as men. A C-SEC security personal says something along the lines of "I could always use more good men". There is also the fact that asari are in a position of power on the council, one in which the other members default to for final decisions and judgment. Without mentioning spoilers I will say that there are many times in which if not for the secondary sex characteristics I would have mistook the actions and behaviors of  T'sone for a male.

It is becomming more and more common for video games and movie heroes to be female or even just feminen in nature and mannerism. I think society is reaching a turnning point in which not only to woman have more rights but they also have more representation in media then they previously did. I think that mass effect however throws a curve ball into this equation of gender equality and representation by creating a race of huminoid that is essentially both genders, in its resting/non-partner specific stage. I would like this topic to be used for the discussion of gender and culture and how the character of the asari and all it's lore related cultures and traditions relate to the real world. 

No Spoilers please and if you are going to refute another persons argument please use the argument pyramid and cite sources if possible.

Edit: I forgot to mention The song "Venus as a boy" by Bjork, its a song about the goddess venus is she were... a boy and I see alot of youtube videos of that song playing in the backround of clip from mass effect that show Asari. So I think thats very relevent. 

Modifié par Vladivindel, 26 janvier 2010 - 09:31 .

[The Demonologist]

In all honesty, I believe they were made with the whole 'swings both ways blue alien chick' mentality in mind. I like Asari lore, but it seems pretty clear that that was part of if not -the- base idea of them.



What I've always found a tad quirky though is that they, socially, have the concept of calling their off-spring 'daughter' or 'she.' Since those are terms referring to the female and the Asari lack gender, I expected something more... middling?



I don't know. Is it true that characters in Mass Effect utilize some kind of translator? It seems like it would interpret whatever word they're using as 'she' or 'her' or things of that nature.



I understand the cinematic need for everyone to speak english/whathaveyou if the translator thing isn't true, but shouldn't they have referred to themselves by something more gender neutral?



Not outraged or nothing, just confused. Having had no dealings with an asexual culture that displays gender biased physical attributes, I just don't know.

[JSRX]

Very interesting. I think, however, that while some developers may have idly considered such issues, they were also very aware that most players would see the asari as all women.



For me, the most interesting aspect of gender in Mass Effect is that the lines are changed very little between the genders. I also love Jennifer Hale's voice acting, which to me gives the impression that Shepard's identities as an officer and a woman do not conflict, or even have the possibility of conflicting. Other points that are worth noting include the lack of mush in the relationships - I've only done Shep/Kaidan so far but it's a very interesting dynamic - and the krogan. The fact that the codex says that krogan women have become war prizes since the inception of the genophage shows that Bioware is not afraid of offending reactionary feminists by playing out the logical consequences of such a situation for gender relations.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Eeeh... I think they just invented the asari to have cool blue stripper alien chicks that can dance around poles. Even the in-game codex and Casey Hudson himself seem to have conflicting opinions on what exactly asari are. I doubt Bioware/EA was intentionally trying to influence society, gender equality etc. etc. They just thought it would be cool. I really don't get the impression they care about social issues. They do have the female option, but refuse to show any footage of FemShep in marketing material. They sort of included gay romance in the first game, but now they dropped it an claim it was never there to begin with.

[Vladivindel]

You make a good point.. Asari use female names but almost all those around them use male names except for the main character. I am speaking of the ambient dialog in game.



I think the intentional use of blue rather then pink or purple is symbolic. There are a number of ways of going about androgynous character design. You can make middle points in everything or you can make contradictions. Like girl aliens being baby blue like the color you put on a newborn BOY baby. I think its safe to say that we wont see gender neutral terms about or of asari in game because the game artists chose to use gender contradictions to make the point rather then neutrals.

[The Demonologist]

JSR, Krogan women are war prizes but will also kill you if you're not strong enough. Thing is, if you're strong enough to win them, they will breed with ya' because it means strong kids.



Don't get it wrong, its the female's choice whether or not you get to breed with them. It's also a different culture, not really anything like what you'd see here.

[Vladivindel]

I have to disagree spaghetti... If they did not care about social norms they would not have tired so hard to keep the sex scene in the game or even bother expanding to the point where one would need to exist. They made the game real and the emotional connections between the characters was also very real.. I think if they could impliment the same facial detail that half life 2 episodic series has then it would really win prizes. The sex scene in mass effect 1 had a profound effect on society culture and in some places even politics.

[ydaraishy]

Vladivindel wrote...

 I have done extensive research on gender in social culture and in video games. The Asari acording to lore have what can only be described medically as a "Selectivly transmorphic suedo male hermaphriditism with testosterone immunity" 

This means that in their default resting state, they have the secondary sex characteristics of a woman and have a vulva but instead of a ****** they have a male primary sex characteristic.

Except you don't know what an asari has stashed in her slacks (and it's not a "male primary sex characteristic", if you've played the Liara romance line and seen the cutscene). You're trying to apply human biological concepts to an alien creature whose biology on sex and reproduction we all know, frankly, little about: that is fail.

Modifié par ydaraishy, 26 janvier 2010 - 09:54 .

[Vladivindel]

ydaraishy wrote...

Vladivindel wrote...

 I have done extensive research on gender in social culture and in video games. The Asari acording to lore have what can only be described medically as a "Selectivly transmorphic suedo male hermaphriditism with testosterone immunity" 

This means that in their default resting state, they have the secondary sex characteristics of a woman and have a vulva but instead of a ****** they have a male primary sex characteristic.

Except you don't know what an asari has stashed in her slacks. You're trying to apply human biological concepts to an alien creature whose biology on sex and reproduction we all know, frankly, little about: that is fail.

All fiction has some basis in truth..   Yes we do know what is between their legs.. You just need to read up on it. I am using medical terms to define what they have rather then making a post like "LOL guis asari are Futa aliens!"

[The Demonologist]

Yeah. Keep in mind that whatever is in those slacks is there just for fun(?), as you get them preggers with your mind, not your body.

[Duckduden]

Vladivindel wrote...

 The sex scene in mass effect 1 had a profound effect on society culture and in some places even politics.

Yeah i rememberr that. From all the media comments about how offending it was i was expecting a full out porn game. I remember i began laughting after the sex scene in Me1, as i could not see what the damed negative hype was about.

[ydaraishy]

Vladivindel wrote...
 Yes we do know what is between their legs..

Have you seen an asari and asked her to spread 'em? Are you an asari gynecologist now? 

[Vladivindel]

The Demonologist wrote...

Yeah. Keep in mind that whatever is in those slacks is there just for fun(?), as you get them preggers with your mind, not your body.

Well it depends aperently on weather or not the asari wants to get pregnant or just share genetic information to make her/himself stronger more diverse.  

[Wishpig]

ydaraishy wrote...

Vladivindel wrote...

 I have done extensive research on gender in social culture and in video games. The Asari acording to lore have what can only be described medically as a "Selectivly transmorphic suedo male hermaphriditism with testosterone immunity" 

This means that in their default resting state, they have the secondary sex characteristics of a woman and have a vulva but instead of a ****** they have a male primary sex characteristic.

Except you don't know what an asari has stashed in her slacks (and it's not a "male primary sex characteristic", if you've played the Liara romance line and seen the cutscene). You're trying to apply human biological concepts to an alien creature whose biology on sex and reproduction we all know, frankly, little about: that is fail.

If you can have sex with a platypus you can have sex with a hot blue alien chick with a dong.

[Vladivindel]

ydaraishy wrote...

Vladivindel wrote...
 Yes we do know what is between their legs..

Have you seen an asari and asked her to spread 'em? Are you an asari gynecologist now? 

No but I do read the books and listen the to in-game dialog. People have extracted the nude models from the first game. Though I have not seen them myself I am told the bottom half is not textured but it is modeled to be ambiguous genitalia. 

[ydaraishy]

You get to see a nude asari (Liara) if you play her romance subplot. There are no "male primary sex characteristic" to be seen. Again, it's pretty ridiculous to try and apply human biology to alien species one knows next to nothing about, like how do asari actually physically reproduce. Do they have wombs? Lay eggs? Spores? That hasn't been detailed anywhere in the codex as far as I'm aware.



This perennial obsession with genitalia is a little creepy, too, so I'm going to leave it there. Let's not start pondering about krogan genitalia, *please*?

[SirGladiator]

Its sort of comical to see anybody trying to argue the Asari are anything other than female. Aside from the fact that in ME1 it explicitly states that the Asari are an all female race, aside from the fact that they are always referred to as females (she), their children as their daughters, their leaders as Matriarchs, etc etc none of that should even be necessary because all it really should take is one look at them .

[thatguy212]

I don't really consider an Asari female, especially since Liara mentions that she's not really a woman

[Malana74]

ydaraishy wrote...

You get to see a nude asari (Liara) if you play her romance subplot. There are no "male primary sex characteristic" to be seen. Again, it's pretty ridiculous to try and apply human biology to alien species one knows next to nothing about, like how do asari actually physically reproduce. Do they have wombs? Lay eggs? Spores? That hasn't been detailed anywhere in the codex as far as I'm aware.

This perennial obsession with genitalia is a little creepy, too, so I'm going to leave it there. Let's not start pondering about krogan genitalia, *please*?

Actually, we know from lore that Krogans have 4 testicles, and that ssaid testicals fetch a huge sum on the black market..  Not to mention they were so fecund a species that the turians and salarians had to come up with the Geophage just to slow them down.  Krogan females must lay a LOT of eggs...or perhaps they're like broodmothers from Dragon Age.



Wrex+ a brood Mother.....Now THERE"Sa mental image that will linger.

[Malana74]

ydaraishy wrote...

You get to see a nude asari (Liara) if you play her romance subplot. There are no "male primary sex characteristic" to be seen. Again, it's pretty ridiculous to try and apply human biology to alien species one knows next to nothing about, like how do asari actually physically reproduce. Do they have wombs? Lay eggs? Spores? That hasn't been detailed anywhere in the codex as far as I'm aware.

This perennial obsession with genitalia is a little creepy, too, so I'm going to leave it there. Let's not start pondering about krogan genitalia, *please*?

Actually, we know from lore that Krogans have 4 testicles, and that ssaid testicals fetch a huge sum on the black market..  Not to mention they were so fecund a species that the turians and salarians had to come up with the Geophage just to slow them down.  Krogan females must lay a LOT of eggs...or perhaps they're like broodmothers from Dragon Age.



Wrex+ a brood Mother.....Now THERE"Sa mental image that will linger.

[Malana74]

Actually, we know from lore that Krogans have 4 testicles, and that ssaid testicals fetch a huge sum on the black market.. Not to mention they were so fecund a species that the turians and salarians had to come up with the Geophage just to slow them down. Krogan females must lay a LOT of eggs...or perhaps they're like broodmothers from Dragon Age.







Wrex+ a brood Mother.....Now THERE"Sa mental image that will linger.{smilie}

[GnusmasTHX]

Thread is silly.



Asari look female/act or whatever female because people are more comfortable with female bisexuality than male ones. Even more so when you consider the player base are male young adults.

[GoldenusG]

ydaraishy wrote...

Vladivindel wrote...
 Yes we do know what is between their legs..

Have you seen an asari and asked her to spread 'em? Are you an asari gynecologist now? 

Well I'm no gynecologist, but I'll take a look!

[Vladivindel]

SirGladiator wrote...

Its sort of comical to see anybody trying to argue the Asari are anything other than female. Aside from the fact that in ME1 it explicitly states that the Asari are an all female race, aside from the fact that they are always referred to as females (she), their children as their daughters, their leaders as Matriarchs, etc etc none of that should even be necessary because all it really should take is one look at them .

You are forgetting that in at least 5 different dialogs asari are called he or reffered to as men. The game seems to apply it based on the situation..  I find it comical that asari also exhibit facial features of male huminoids in jaw length and width.  
Did it ever occur to you that the reason there are female specific terms applied to asari is because it is politically correct and easyer for other species to comprehend.  For you to say that people are looking to deep into any aspect of a game of this magnitude and cultural significance is rather "comical".

[biddypocket]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Thread is silly.

Asari look female/act or whatever female because people are more comfortable with female bisexuality than male ones. Even more so when you consider the player base are male young adults.

I'd agree. The gamer/sci-fi fan in me is like "sure, yeah, they have no specific sex!"

However, the realist in me can't help but think they didn't just throw that line in there to avoid controversy over having a lesbian romance option but not a gay male one.