57 réponses à ce sujet

[RenAdaar]

A lvl 23 angry druffalo would be worse than Satan 

A lvl 23 angry duffalo would be named satan 

[Big Magnet]

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[Marika]

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I do believe I'd be running the other way as fast as I could.

[Akka le Vil]

Either that or just cut down the power differentials between levels so that overlevelling doesn't remove the challenge. It wouldn't be all that difficult to do so - just change it so that an end game item is like 50% better than a starting item, rather than 200% better.

 

That's about the most obvious manageable way to do it.

[Xemnas07]

Guys to clarify, i am not advocating that the scaling system make a level 10 bear scale to a level 23 quizzy. I mean more along the lines of the bear would scale to a soft or hard cap, maybe level 15, or dont even increase the actual level, just give it more hp and a bit more dmg for each level you have on it to a cap, that way things that were level 1 dont become op and make you feel like you didnt progress, but they still manage to keep combat in areas like the hinterlands fresh and at least somewhat challenging, that way exploration doesnt become check listing all the markers on each map, and you still look forward to combat encounters in these areas.

[simpatikool]

I am off the level scaling variety. I totally love DAI,  but as I only play on Hardcore, the ease of which I crush the enemies after leaving Haven has changed my gameplay strategy. Mainly all about pleasure of exploration, then closing out the story when I am done with that objective.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Nothing should ever scale to the main character's level in any way, because scaling ****** sucks and doesn't make any sense lorewise. DA:I doesn't have too little scaling, it has far too much scaling. 

 

Divinity 2 did this, it worked.

 

...you mean the game in which every enemy more than three levels below you doesn't do any damage whatsoever and any enemy more than three levels above you is 100% unkillable? Divinity 2 basically had MMORPG leveling mechanics, which is not something I want to see in a single-player RPG.

[Xemnas07]

Nothing should ever scale to the main character's level in any way, because scaling ****** sucks and doesn't make any sense lorewise. DA:I doesn't have too little scaling, it has far too much scaling. 

 

 

...you mean the game in which every enemy more than three levels below you doesn't do any damage whatsoever and any enemy more than three levels above you is 100% unkillable? Divinity 2 basically had MMORPG leveling mechanics, which is not something I want to see in a single-player RPG.

did you read my above comment? i dont think all mobs should scale equally to your level, just enough so the combat doesnt become boring and tedious, effectively turning the game into nothing more than checking off map markers.

[Wulfram]

...you mean the game in which every enemy more than three levels below you doesn't do any damage whatsoever and any enemy more than three levels above you is 100% unkillable? Divinity 2 basically had MMORPG leveling mechanics, which is not something I want to see in a single-player RPG.

It's XP scaling worked. You couldn't outlevel the main quest (and side quests were OK so long as you did it in more or less the right order), and you could skip the sidequests and not end up badly underleveled. I wasn't commenting on the rest of it's systems.

[Akka le Vil]

did you read my above comment? i dont think all mobs should scale equally to your level, just enough so the combat doesnt become boring and tedious, effectively turning the game into nothing more than checking off map markers.

 

There is absolutely no point in scaling. If they only requires "a bit of scaling", then just make the power gain per level commensurably less, and voilà you've got the exact same thing without some weird illogical "I've gained a level so the entire world is becoming stronger too, because things".
 

[Xemnas07]

There is absolutely no point in scaling. If they only requires "a bit of scaling", then just make the power gain per level commensurably less, and voilà you've got the exact same thing without some weird illogical "I've gained a level so the entire world is becoming stronger too, because things".
 

are we ignoring the fact that most mmorpg's do it?and skyrim, probably the most successful rpg game in recent times, did it, and it worked pretty damn good for them. im willing to accept a slight inconsistency in realism (cuz in a world of dragons and magic, for some reason we expect all things to be logical and realistic, cuz reasons) in order to avoid a boring, tedious late game combat system. The current system renders one huge mechanic of the game boring and useless. However, power gain per level might be another way to address it. I just feel like scaling works better

[Marshal Moriarty]

Accepting that the combat is just a button basher that relies on raw stats rather than any particular skill from the player, I guess the biggest problem is the lack of truly difficult areas. Emprise Du Lyon is the only moderately challenging zone IMO, and even that can be done fairly early, so long as you are careful.

 

I'm not generally a big fan of level scaling, but if you don't have it, then you *must* make sure that there are zones and bosses that will satisfy the higher level party. Otherwise the combat loses even the small interest it initially has, and becomes white noise. I was barely noticing the enemies after the halfway mark of around 50 hours, and never even entertained the notion that I might ever lose - and I didn't. And in case that sounds like some kind of boast, I was putting in *zero* effort, and certainly wasn't some kind of tactical genius. The simple fact is that you never really need to concentrate. Yet the combat is so bland that I was never moved to increase the difficulty. Because it would still be easy - it would just take longer.

 

Basically, if they were going to make the combat this mindless, then fine - I don't really care at all about the gameplay in Bioware games anyway. But in that case, the zones themselves needed much stronger quests and proper rewards for exploration beyond planting flags and getting oodles of trash loot to sell for money you never spend (as far as I can remember, I never bought anything in this game - ever).

[Xemnas07]

Accepting that the combat is just a button basher that relies on raw stats rather than any particular skill from the player, I guess the biggest problem is the lack of truly difficult areas. Emprise Du Lyon is the only moderately challenging zone IMO, and even that can be done fairly early, so long as you are careful.

 

I'm not generally a big fan of level scaling, but if you don't have it, then you *must* make sure that there are zones and bosses that will satisfy the higher level party. Otherwise the combat loses even the small interest it initially has, and becomes white noise. I was barely noticing the enemies after the halfway mark of around 50 hours, and never even entertained the notion that I might ever lose - and I didn't. And in case that sounds like some kind of boast, I was putting in *zero* effort, and certainly wasn't some kind of tactical genius. The simple fact is that you never really need to concentrate. Yet the combat is so bland that I was never moved to increase the difficulty. Because it would still be easy - it would just take longer.

 

Basically, if they were going to make the combat this mindless, then fine - I don't really care at all about the gameplay in Bioware games anyway. But in that case, the zones themselves needed much stronger quests and proper rewards for exploration beyond planting flags and getting oodles of trash loot to sell for money you never spend (as far as I can remember, I never bought anything in this game - ever).

Says he never turned difficulty up, makes judgement about how it would pan out if he did. Seem legit. Im gonna pick on that because historically, DA has always been prone to difficulty spikes, especially in DAO; the difference between hard and nightmare was just ridiculous. Now, i grant that nightmare in DAI might not be AS hard as DAO, but im sure youd have to put in effort. When you play the game on normal or below, or even Hard if you are a veteran gamer, then dont complain or trash talk the difficulty, because youre getting exactly what you selected. When you try the game on nightmare, your statement will have more credit.

But i will agree that the game needs scaling or SOME kind of system to satisfy a well equipped, high level party, because right now im just steamrolling the game on hard because i reached level 18 before i ever went to crestwood, and that is NOT ok

[Marshal Moriarty]

What a predictable response. So is DA:I some kind of truly exceptional game? Is the increase in difficulty in this game so dramatic and so game changing that an educated guess (I have played quite a lot of games in my time, easy, hard, impossible etc) has no merit? Are you going to sell me some nonsense that Nightmare is how the game *should* be played etc etc etc Because that kind of thing never sounds foolish...

 

My assertion was simply that the *type* of game this is, the basic gaming experience it is offering, would not change simply because the enemies have more health or hit harder. You'd need to be more careful in the standard encounters making combat I can't stand last longer, and delve into the crafting, which I *hate* so its hardly likely to increase my enjoyment is it? I didn't find the combat fun, so I had no wish to make the combat last any longer than it did. If I find a game's combat fun, then I will play the harder difficulties, for an excuse to play the game again if nothing else! I like hard games - I've spent most of the year playing the 3 Souls games (as is Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and 2). But those games have fun combat - the fact that its both fun *and* hard makes it doubly great. This game's combat is easy and boring.

 

My point is that because the game never got harder, there was almost never any point at which I was even presented with the need to change that approach. My level of commitment and desire to fully explore and experiment with a game's system is directly tied to how much I perceive a need to do that, and how much fun I derive from such things. As I stated before, I don't care about gameplay in Bioware games, *but* if the gameplay *is* good, then I will start to care (Mass Effect doesn't exactly have great combat, but I do really love playing as a Vanguard in all 3 games, so whilst I usually play those games on Normal, I kick the difficulty up to Hardcore for my canon Vanguard playthroughs).

 

And this game was no different in that regard. I've spoken on other threads of how I went to Emprise Du Lyon 'first' (out of the optional zones that open up in Act 2), and did initally meet some resistance. This was the first and only time I used a Focus power in the whole game. But whilst the combat was difficult enough to make me start playing 'properly', it didn't give me any more enjoyment. But speaking objectively, that kind of difficulty should have been present more often (which going by what you said, we seem to agree on, yes?)

 

In a nutshell, I thought the game's combat was poor, so the fact it was easy hardly mattered. For it to matter, the combat would first need to be interesting, *then* the issue of diffculty could be addressed.

[Darkly Tranquil]

A lvl 23 angry druffalo would be worse than Satan 

 

A level 23 bear would be worse.

[magicalpoop]

How about at least scale the bosses and loot....Wow Lord Seeker Lucius.....level 7 and 100 gold....at level 16 I just watched my Cass 1 hit him with a 2h. It was funny but also extremely boring.

[Akka le Vil]

are we ignoring the fact that most mmorpg's do it?and skyrim, probably the most successful rpg game in recent times, did it, and it worked pretty damn good for them. im willing to accept a slight inconsistency in realism (cuz in a world of dragons and magic, for some reason we expect all things to be logical and realistic, cuz reasons) in order to avoid a boring, tedious late game combat system. The current system renders one huge mechanic of the game boring and useless. However, power gain per level might be another way to address it. I just feel like scaling works better

 

Actually, MMO don't have scaling, they have levels by zones.

And the scaling was one of the worst point of Skyrim.

 

Regardless, I don't exactly see how the fact that other games use scaling somehow makes it better ?

 

 

Oh, and the "there is magic so any other kind of logical absurdity is fair game" argument needs to die. In a fire. And have its remains dumped in an acid bath. And throw it all in the ocean.
 

[Xemnas07]

Actually, MMO don't have scaling, they have levels by zones.

And the scaling was one of the worst point of Skyrim.

 

Regardless, I don't exactly see how the fact that other games use scaling somehow makes it better ?

 

 

Oh, and the "there is magic so any other kind of logical absurdity is fair game" argument needs to die. In a fire. And have its remains dumped in an acid bath. And throw it all in the ocean.
 

Im guessing you never played Guild Wars 2. But either way, DAO had levels by zone, and it worked because you could do an areas main quest and side quests in one go, and you wouldn't be overleveled for the rest of the game. So you had no reason to go back to earlier zones. In DAI, they give you plenty reason to go back to previous zones. However, since you can just steamroll the whole zone, it makes going back to that zone just boring and tedious, which makes it feel like youre just check listing the game now. 

Why is scaling bad? Keeps the combat interesting and fun, and makes sure you dont get overleveled by exploring (which is the exact issue with DAI; why promote hundreds of hours of exploring only to have it destroy any challenge of the main story and bosses, kinda makes you not want to explore just so you dont steamroll the main story and the fun bosses like dragons) so it gives you the opportunity to explore without making the rest of the game boring after so many hours of doing so.

I never made that argument, all i said was that i am willing to accept a little inconsistency in realism, and that it is weird that everyone wants realism in a game that is complete fantasy. If anything, scaling wouldnt make sense because the creatures getting magically stronger is weird, and non scaling doesnt make sense because how is it that the same type/species of creature is weaker in one zone but stronger in another? how is one more logically acceptable than the other?

IMO, the only GOOD thing about skyrim combat was the scaling, cuz otherwise it was just boring and repetitive as ****. but thats my opinion.

[DarkSun09]

Eh, I think the bigger problem is the lack of enemies rather than their level cap. After you reach a certain level, some enemies just... stop showing up at all. The land is vast and open... but there are barely any enemies to fight other than the occasional wolf packs. And who wants to go around beating up helpless animals all the time? Some hero you'd be. 

 

I think the thing is.... you're not suppose do every side quest, or explore every nooks and crannies... or you'll just end up being too powerful. A completionist nightmare if you ask me. They should make it harder to level, and lower the equipment requirement so that you are not forced to level if you wanna wear the best stuff.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Bandits in glass armor and bears that eat dragons for lunch...no I'd rather fell overpowered...

 

I feel ya. I much prefer non-scaling enemies. Make me work for it, and if I eventually overlevel most enemies, so what? It's an RPG. The game doesn't have to be balanced or provide a consistent challenge. I love getting my ass kicked by a level 8 bear, only to come back later and make a new armor out of its hide. Getting wiped by a level 16 Rift, then come back and blast it with Mark of the Rift while cackling madly.

 

I do think some enemies (in either Hissing Wastes or Emprise) should have leveled higher. I almost never saw enemies go higher than level 21 even when I was 24, and I got there without grinding or doing a lot of side-quests. But Inquisition's model is far better than Skyrim's, where every enemy was trivial anyway from level 40+ apart from Ancient Dragons.

[NoForgiveness]

Ya I'm not a fan of not having level scaling. In my experience it leads to 2 things 1) the game(or parts of it) being stupidly easy because of Overleveling(which happened to me) or 2) the game being stupidly hard because of being too low level(which also happened to me(though it was really just those few out of place lvl 12 rifts in the hinterlands and dragons)).

[atlantico]

Two things DA:I did right:

 

1. No scaling monsters, you can be eaten by a dragon just like that if you walk into the wrong place at the wrong time.

2. No regenerating health. That was actually the clincher for me, and I bought the game (and don't regret it!)

[Jestina]

The scaling system in Skyrim is just awful. Of course it doesn't help that your character is basically a god and world revolves around you. I much prefer just set levels for creatures or zones.

[Xemnas07]

Two things DA:I did right:

 

1. No scaling monsters, you can be eaten by a dragon just like that if you walk into the wrong place at the wrong time.

2. No regenerating health. That was actually the clincher for me, and I bought the game (and don't regret it!)

Im not suggestng that the harder monsters lie dragons be scaled down, that would be awful, i just want basic creatures in beginner zones to scale UP so that when you go back to finish exploring them, the combat there is still fun and engaging

[Swordfishtrombone]

I like the way it currently is, with limited scaling. What would make it better though is if there were a couple of more areas, with maybe level 20 and up enemies, that you could access in later stages of the game.

 

Also, what would be great would be if you could choose the level range for the storyline quests - kinda player chosen level scaling. Then people who just blaze through the main story could do so with minimal exploration, while those of us who like to search every nook and cranny before advancing the main story could pick higher level enemies once we do advance the story, if we so chose. That would allow you to feel as overpowered, underpowered, or balanced as you like, catering to personal preferences of players.