191 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Seekers went from (over)hyped-up, unseen badasses to the biggest scumlords in Thedas.

[lady_v23]

Yes. Vivienne specially helped me change my mind.

[Nimlowyn]

Yes. I now believe Wardens need oversight, and should join the rest of society in some way. Having an independent organization capable of going THAT far without any cooperation with the rest of the world? No way.

I still think they're vitally important. I can't fathom how Vivienne can think they're a relic with a Blight in living memory.

[Aolbain]

Yeah, I'm a lot more intrigued by Tevinter and the Qun now.

[Dr. rotinaj]

The Dalish got knocked down a few pegs in DAI, or at least the more off-putting parts of their culture were given more attention. In DAO, most of the dialogue we hear about the Dalish was positive but in DAI we have Sera and Solas, two elves that dislike the Dalish for different yet both equally valid reasons. After playing DAI, my opinions on the Dalish have changed a bit, but I've become more interested in the ancient elves and the city elves.

[SugarBabe49]

I think DA:I did a really good job of helping me come to like things more.

 

Now - I was netural on Mages/Templars - in Origins, I always reverted to Knight-Commander Gregior because I felt he would have a better stance of knowing if the mages were safe or not. He said with First Enchanter Irving still alive - they were safe. In DA:II I was frustrated as hell because I saw both good/bad sides yet I was forced to pick instead of telling them both of f**k off.

 

I liked both the mages and Templars in Origins because you got to see them working together. (Yes, Cullen was an exception but I can give him a pass because he had been tortured for who knows how long, send the rest of his companions die - there were tons of templars bodies in that room and he was the only one alive and he had to hear the screaming coming from room above him so it wasn't a surprise to see him go against this)

 

DA:II - I got to see the worse side yet there were still templars and mages who tried their hardest (as in they didn't turn to blood magic and demons) but there were templars/mages I didn't mind killing because they deserve it.

 

DA:I helped me further - seeing the Templars in DA:I helped me to like them a lot more. Ser Barris is what a templar should be - one who is protecting the innocents regardless. Even Cullen points it out that he stood between a innocent accused of magic and a mob without raising his sword. 

 

In the Mages section - yep, Fiona was an idiot but she was a desperate idiot. However, by allying herself with the Tevinters - she lost herself support. She should have stayed quiet when King/Queen called her out on that and she was the one who made it impossible for them to continue to support the mages.

 

Before anyone starts - there were mages outside of Redcliff. If you talk to the guy in Hinterland (who was helping the refugees) - he says the Real Rebel Mages were in Redcliffe and had washed their hands of the mages outside Redcliffe. This led to an outright war between the Templars and Mages where innocent people's lives were lost because of it.

 

So to be honest - Fiona lost a good bit of respect for me (she was pretty awesome in the book but at the end, she and Maric had lost a bit due to 'situations' - especially how you regard them in Origins).

 

Even the mages had expressed doubts over allying themselves with Tevinters (except for that one in the bar - could she have been even more desperate to be with Tevinters?)

 

So yes - DA:I made me understand and sympathise more with the Templars/Mages this time round than I did in previous games because I was pretty much like 'can we please just move on from this damn war' - though Fiona's deal made me face palm because, seriously - could you not see how evil he looked?

 

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The Qun - well, Iron Bull is really the only one I can say is awesome. Especially since my Qunari is a mage and I still remember how they treat their mages so I'm pretty more biased due to DA:II. Sorry, but I really hate the way the Qun treats them. Playing as a Tal-Vashoth was interesting and Iron Bull saying that they were Tal-Vashoth he didn't have a problem with makes me wonder if the Qun only really go after those who become really savage and leave others alone - but we won't know.

 

However - I did use the option to ask him what was wrong with the Tal-Vashoth and he said it was because they upped and left rather than trying to change things from within. I found that sweet but naive considering this is from the man who asked himself to be re-educated. Good chance that would probably have happened to anyone who tried to 'change' things from within and it makes me even more curious about the Qun to pre-dates them.

 

Were they similar or is the 'Qun' something that had been developed by a group of people who then broke away? 

 

So needless to say - the Qun has my interest but not enough to give up the Chargers for them.

 

And I wished I had the qunari/mage option to tell Gatt if you told him that you loathed the Qun, he says it understandable to fear what you don't understand, I could have told him that I had no desired to have my mouth sewn shut and to be collared like a dog. See how he would have reacted to that.

 

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The Dalish - now, I loved playing as a Dalish in Origins and I adore playing as my mage elf in DA:I but seriously - the elves really did annoy me with their holy than thou attitude - especially when you are playing as a elf. Geez - you think they would have some respect but nope - you get treated like you are something they stood on.

 

I had always wondered about the elven gods so I was glad to see that this had been touched on. Finding out that the Elves lost their own land due to infighting only increased my interest and it made me wonder how have they come to mistranslates so much of their lore? They believed they had lost their lands due to a war with humans only for it to be revealed that they actually lost it because they fought each other and the humans came in much later to pick up the pieces.

 

Also with Fen'Harel being the god of tricker when we find out that he is actually the god of rebellion and hasn't seem to have betrayed the gods after all like the elves believed. I began to wonder if there is someone else - other than him and Mythal - is pulling the strings. There must be a reason to why Fen'Harel was cast as a bad guy in the whole thing.

 

And the blood writing - finding out that they were slave markings. That was a shock, but I did wonder why Dalish elves had to wear them (meaning we don't get the option not to have one during creation).

 

I don't think it knocked the elves down a few pegs for me (I didn't have that high of opinion when it came to them in the first place due to their attitudes) but it did make me question it more.

 

However I don't like the Mage Elf you meet during the quest to find a elven artifact - her keeper summoned a demon (seem to be a bit of a trend regarding the keepers in clans. DA:O had the keeper binding himself to the werewolf curse, DA:II had the keeper allowing the demon to over take her). It was nice to break that trend with our Keeper - unless you had them drink the water where they are now bound to a god (which is a step-up). And calling Solas a flat-ear. I really wished for an option to tell her to shut it if you were an elf.

 

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Tevintar - now that is still something I need more information on. I love Dorian but he is only one man with a view so I cannot really take him at his words. And if you had Calperina as the 'vessel' her view for Tevintar was a good one but how long would it take before it would become a reality.

 

So far - there weren't really any good points that I could see regarding them. Well - other than the fact they had a man as the Divine - that made me applaud - it was great to see something different regarding the Chantry there.

 

You had Alexius - who screwed with time to get the mages and to get a hold of you. Yes, he did it for his son but his own son went against him on that plan so you can see the madness in it.

 

Then you had the vints who crawled out of the network and was destroying everything.

 

So I need more information on them before I can decide.

 

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The spirits and demons! That was a refreshing change for once. And Cole was even more a refreshing change from Wynne/Anders and Justice.

 

It probably helped that Solas explained a lot regarding the fade/demons/spirits so I got more information on it and I can see how the whole Anders/Justice thing worked out.

 

And Knowing that spirits could be summoned and turned into a demon really made me shudder. I just want to know if every demon you killed had the chance to revert back into being a spirit and was returned to the fade - much like how the spirit of wisdom was.

 

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Grey Wardens - I can freely admit this.

 

I hated them in Origins. I hated Duncan and wanted nothing more than to kick his ass into the nearest lake while setting him on fire because every single one of my character was conscripted - especially my Human Noble Origins who wanted to stay with their parents and basically told him to take a hike. (Sorry Alistair).

 

Needless to say - I never saw them as heroes, not like Alistair and Blackwall did. Both of them had been regaled tales of their heroics and even Alistair seemed tired in DA:I and the way he talked about the Wardens indicated that the glamour of that life had worn off.

 

The whole plan to summon demons and invade the Deep Roads was the most stupid idea I had ever seen out the whole game - seriously, maybe they should have had their asses sent to the Vigilant Keep where they would learn that you can summon demons, you can bind them but in the end - they will turn around and bite your ass. As proven in Adamant where demons turned on them.

 

Seriously - who looks at Demons and think what a great army that would make? (Other than Corphy but he was bats**t insane to start with).

 

Plus the whole 'neutrality' thing also annoyed me because as a Warden in Origins - you had to solved the situation between werewolves and elves, pick a king (while destroying a broodmother), save a circle from itself and decide if Eamon is an arrogant sexist ass upon who should rule Ferelden. (and if Loghain should live or not). Where was being Neutral in that? Bet my wardens got an earful from the Commander for daring to break their precious rules.

 

I sincerely saw all of my wardens (apart from those who died) giving the middle finger to the wardens and leaving them to find a cure for the death sentence that they never asked for.

 

Also the wardens in Crestwood was enough to annoy me even further. All they had to do was stick around for a little while longer to protect the village from an onslaught of dead attacking them while I drained the lake, fought my way down to the bottom and closed the damn rift. Yes - they had orders from a mad woman who wanted Stroud/Alistair's head for saying she was insane for considering blood magic and demons.

 

Wonderful priorities there, Warden-Commander, I see how you got the job from the Hero of Ferelden, who is obviously had decided that searching for a cure was better than throwing yourself into the deep road for an early death.

 

Needless to say - I let them stay instead of exiling them because Stroud/Alistair gave up their lives (maybe) to make up for their damn mistakes. I am not letting them walk away after that mess they created. My hope is that most of them decide that questioning orders is far better than following them blindly and that hopefully they will reconsider their stance on Neutrality, deciding that they should help people out in between blights.

 

And remind me not to answer posts in the middle of the night because I tend to rant...and leave really long posts

[LobselVith8]

Nope still in favor of the Mages, as I think the Circle system is ripe for abuse by the jailers Templar Knights. They so wanted to make the Templar's out like poor victims this time around because you were working for the Chantry even if the game was telling your not working for them.


Also Look at how they retacon the kicking out mage children with the Dalish, when in DA2 and DAO children with magic were given to other clans and even taken in by them. They also let city elves into the clans, as well, but in this game they retacon this as bull crud. I still like the Dalish at least make the retacon conform to the previous games.

 

Yeah, what Minaeve, Vivienne, and the mercenary Dalish said about the clans doesn't really make sense in relation to previous lore when you consider that we've had more than three mages to a clan in previous games (Ariane talking about how a Circle mage was welcomed into her clan, or Aneirin being welcomed into Zathrian's clan when they already had Lanaya and Elora, as well as allowing him to follow the clan), and Merrill's dialogue outright contradicts what was said in Inquisition; even her codex entry contradicts this: "As each generation passes, magic becomes more rare among the Dalish. As the gift dies out, talented children are moved between clans so that every Keeper has a successor, and no clan is in danger of being left without guidance."

 

Frankly, having two anti-Dalish companions didn't really help, either. Admittedly, Solas will concede he's wrong about the Dalish, but only if Lavellan is already pro-Dalish to start with, while Sera will break a romance off with Lavellan unless she gives up her religious views. I'm not sure why we can have a plethora of pro-Circle, pro-Chantry characters but we're denied having any pro-Dalish characters among our companions, advisers, and even the minor characters who we interact with regularly.

[Machina Obscura]

It solidified my allegience to the templar and my idea that warden's were over-rated as a force for good in all but blight circumstances. So, it didnt change things, but it cemented them.

[justafan]

I'm still pro-mage, though no longer anti-templar.  However, I now find myself pretty pro-Chantry after Inquisition.  Characters like Cassandra and the "Dawn Will Come" scene really highlighted the good behind the organization, and how it has kept the citizens of Thedas going despite blights, slavery, rebellions, and giant hellmouths in the sky.

[Ryriena]

Yeah, what Minaeve, Vivienne, and the mercenary Dalish said about the clans doesn't really make sense in relation to previous lore when you consider that we've had more than three mages to a clan in previous games (Ariane talking about how a Circle mage was welcomed into her clan, or Aneirin being welcomed into Zathrian's clan when they already had Lanaya and Elora, as well as allowing him to follow the clan), and Merrill's dialogue outright contradicts what was said in Inquisition; even her codex entry contradicts this: "As each generation passes, magic becomes more rare among the Dalish. As the gift dies out, talented children are moved between clans so that every Keeper has a successor, and no clan is in danger of being left without guidance."
 
Frankly, having two anti-Dalish companions didn't really help, either. Admittedly, Solas will concede he's wrong about the Dalish, but only if Lavellan is already pro-Dalish to start with, while Sera will break a romance off with Lavellan unless she gives up her religious views. I'm not sure why we can have a plethora of pro-Circle, pro-Chantry characters but we're denied having any pro-Dalish characters among our companions, advisers, and even the minor characters who we interact with regularly.

I also agree that some retacons aren't really alright with me in this game, as the previous lores to the game have contradicts like you metioned. I still hate the idea of the stupid circles, it felt like I had to jump through hoops just too get approval up due to my stance on mage freedoms. I have also been somewhat denyed the anti chantry characters, as well, since I could not state my characters distaste for it.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

yup. i like mages more - thanks to Dorian and Vivienne (unforunately countered by Fiona). i'm facepalming and laughing at Dalish. i have no idea how's that possible but i want to visit Tevinter even more than before (and i'm furious Fade wasn't an explorable area - i wanted to see Black City as well, damn it). hate what happened to Gray Wardens (there is no Blight, shoo to Anderfels, what the hell were you doing in Orlais?!). still hate Orlais and the Chantry. Iron Bull made me respect qunari less (you have second thoughts? you are here to follow orders, not to think)

[Lord Raijin]

Nope still in favor of the Mages, as I think the Circle system is ripe for abuse by the jailers Templar Knights. They so wanted to make the Templar's out like poor victims this time around because you were working for the Chantry even if the game was telling your not working for them.


Also Look at how they retacon the kicking out mage children with the Dalish, when in DA2 and DAO children with magic were given to other clans and even taken in by them. They also let city elves into the clans, as well, but in this game they retacon this as bull crud. I still like the Dalish at least make the retacon conform to the previous games.

Actually both mages and Templar's are the victims of the Chantry. Didn't you feel and understand the anger that came out of Samsons voice during judgement? The Chantry was feeding these templars a highly addicted drug in form of control. The Chantry controls the supply of lyrium, and therefor have the power to control the templars. The Templar's is a large part of their military after all.

 

The Chantry is responsible for the incarceration of the mages

The Chantry is responsible for intentionally getting their military forces strung out on highly addictive drug that is known to cause severe side effects, and withdrawals.

The Chantry is responsible for causing the mage and Templar rebellion

 

Seems like everything bad happens is the result of the Chantry.

[Violetbliss]

Mostly regarding the Dalish, I really enjoyed learning more about them, and how things put them in a new light. I still dislike the Chantry and its rigidness when it comes to looking at things as an institution (some individuals are openminded of course) but I was glad that there were some choices regarding that.

 

Seekers, templars and mages, they all sort of behaved/ended as I suspected and the choices i made were quite natural, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I was almost 100% sure either organization would struggle with their aspirations direly. I, and my character I suppose, just don't believe in cages so they are all set adrift in my game, so they can succeed or mess up on their own terms.

 

Finally, it made me think that the Orlesian grey wardens really needed better leadership.

[SomberXIII]

Many of my views were changed. Mostly on templars and Grey Wardens and Fiona too. I so hated templars then I realized that there are a lot of good templars like Ser Barris and the Grey Wardens are just as stupid as most Dalish in non-Blight times. And I can't express how much I hated the Chantry after the game.

[Ashevajak]

Put me also down for "redeeming the Templars".  I did think the Templars were not entirely terrible, as some of the more moderate characters in DAO and DA2 showed, but by and large, the Order was portrayed pretty terribly and not without good reason.  DAI rightly showed what the Order was capable of, with the right focus and leadership, as an organization to protect and serve the people of Thedas, rather than torment and jail mages.

I always suspected the Wardens were kinda d*ckbags, so nothing changed there.  I like organizations that are all "the ends justify the means" and mean it, especially when the threat they are fighting against really is so awful.  It, in theory, makes for much more interesting moral dilemmas even though in gameplay that has only occasionally been borne out.  Shame the means by which they decided to show this was, well, kinda dumb, but I suppose you can excuse that due to the effects of the Calling.   Maybe.

 

I'm also wondering about the Seekers.  What Cassandra describes as their training...that sounds very, very hardcore.  And for some reason, makes me think of the Joining.  Those abilities sound well beyond those of a Templar, and makes me wonder exactly what the Seekers undergo in exchange for such powers, and what potential costs they may incur down the line.

 

I'm glad we got some resolution on Red Lyrium, even if it raises a whole load of new questions.  That was one big plot point that hung over all of DA2 with absolutely no closure or explanation whatsoever.

And...well, the Elven mythology expositions make me wish I had paid more attention during my Dalish archer playthrough in Origins.  

 

Dwarves definitely got shafted on the mythology front, which was a shame.  Solas and Cole dropped some very interesting hints and comments about dwarves (and Templars!) around the place...I'm just hoping that perhaps DA4 will maybe expand on Dwarven history in the way DA:I did on Elven.  I suspect that there are quite a few secrets lurking in the Deep Roads...

[leaguer of one]

O fcouse. it made me see mages more as jerks and idiots. Let me see the pain of the templers. Shows me the flaws of the wardens. And it broke my heart knowing the true Past of the elves.

This game near changed everthing I know about thedus.

 

But as a wise woman said...

 

"The truth is not an end but a begining,a herald if you will, shouting at the heavens ushering a new age."

[leaguer of one]

Inquisition made me like the Dalish way more than I thought I would.

 

Also, Abelas and the Temple of Mythal ironically made me feel more eager to recover ancient elven history, technology, traditions and lore than before. (If BioWare thought they were going to discourage us by showing the "awful truth" of ancient Arlathan - that there was political powerplay and slavery and sacrifice - it didn't work. Before, the Dalish depicted Arlathan as this unrealistically perfect utopia, which made it hard to believe it could ever have existed. Learning that it was real and flawed like everywhere else in Thedas just makes me want to recover it more than ever, so we can revive the good parts and learn from the bad.)

It did the opposite with me. If my city elf warden was there, everything about what they find out in the temple of Mythal and the Emerald Graves would break her heart. She would end up not wanting any part with the ancient elves and their knowledge.

[Rawgrim]

It made me completely ditch the lore, really. When the designers ignore the lore at every turn, I won't invest more thought into it.

[leaguer of one]

It made me completely ditch the lore, really. When the designers ignore the lore at every turn, I won't invest more thought into it.

Dude, the entire ending of the game made it a point a massive part of the lore is wrong.

[Rawgrim]

Dude, the entire ending of the game made it a point a massive part of the lore is wrong.

 

Not what I was talking about. I mean teleporting and stuff like that.

[Darkly Tranquil]

It revealed a lot of interesting lore, but it can't say altered any of my views. I'm still moderately pro-Mage (but some of them really make it hard), and I always thought the Wardens were a fairly morally dubious organisation (although I didn't think they were quite that stupid). I didn't care for the Qun and Dalish retcons, but the reveal of the fall of the elves was very interesting; it made me feel bad for the Dalish because almost everything they believe is a lie, and in spite of the fact that they can be dickish at times, they at least try to live their own way away from oppressive influence of the Chantry, and I respect their determination to never submit.

[NaclynE]

Frankly for every DRAGON AGE game I play it proves that there is always a bad apple and a good apple in each group. Frankly Ever since DRAGON AGE ORIGIONS I always felt the templars were always the bad guys since they keep a watchful eye on mages to ensure they don't demon summon, demon gate summon, or become demons which isn't always true because people like Morrigan, Wynne or others or even yourself can be good mages. In DRAGON AGE INQUISITION you get a good positive evolution from Curran who went from "MAGES KILLED MY PEOPLE!" in Dragon Age Origins to potentially having a relationship with your character and wanting to do the right thing. Even when you get the templar group it seems that acting leader guy in your group seems like he's very pro your group and wanting to help you in any way shape or form. 

 

Frankly I am unbiased about which is the better faction but I trust my personal feelings even though I go with situations to fit my characters personality. However I do learn my characters biasness which I am amazed at and try to have my character act accordingly. I still got a big kick out of my first playthrough where SOlas really hated my decisions in siding with the templars and keeping the Grey Wardens in tact. Sure I understand that he feels with the templars still around they can still potentially "control mages fates" but I ensured that that wouldn't happen but he still gave me guff and started saying that the wardens will bring doom upon everyone because of the mess I dealt with with Hawke and Stroud (lost Stroud) and how "That was a beginning of a potential bigger mess". I took major offence from that whole warden thing because the wardens have been fighting the dark spawn for years and are a faaaaaaarrrrrrrr bigger threat than the mages and templars which I feel he doesn't understand. Not to mention the main character in Dragon Age Origins was a "Grey Warden". Agreeing with him about this subject is saying "Every thing I did in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age Awakening was stupid because the grey Wardens are 'baaaaaad people'." So instead I picked the option to hit him so my character punched him. I started pulling some major hate on him since since all he wanted to do was critisize every "faction decision" I wanted to make. I told him he could leave for all I care. He deserved that punch. He could have another one on the way out. Lol.

 

Btw we have yet to explore Weisshaupt so I feel like when we do explore there more then maybe we can get a bit of a great idea about the Grey Wardens for those that beg to differ still if Grey Wardens are the suck.

[Taint Enthusiast]

 

 

I think there was always something very sinister about Wardens from the very beginning, I'm also not terribly convinced that what happened at conclave was because Corypheus was controlling those wardens (the way he says "our victory" and then ok creating an army of demons to fight the blight might make sense on some level, but killing the Divine?) There is no telling what is going on in the higher echelons of Wardens, I mean there is even a pattern: low rank mages got screwed by Fiona, low rank Templars were screwed up by Envy posing as Lord Seeker, Lord Seeker was hiding important things from low rank Seekers. 

 

You might be onto something there. In DA2, Nathaniel says that their allies told them the thaig would be clear of darkspawn. Hawke asks if these allies were dwarves, and Nathaniel said no, and that times were strange. The thing is, he had already spoken about the Architect, so if that's who he was talking about he wouldn't have been so vague. And he talks about these mysterious allies whether you killed the Architect or not. This mission can be played either pre- or post-Legacy.

 

And in Last Flight, the new recruits are tasked with searching Weisshaupt's archive for evidence of strange Warden behavior any time in history. 

 

So was Corypheus influencing the upper ranks who knew of his existence while he was sleeping? Or, have senior Wardens or the First Warden been in contact with other old magisters too, or crazy mysterious things we haven't encountered yet?