191 réponses à ce sujet

[JoltDealer]

It most certainly did.  It made me side with the Templars during my second playthrough.  I understand that mages were mistreated, but every time a crisis came knocking on their door, they made the wrong decision.  Uldred?  He went full abomination.  Orsino?  Tried his best to solve things diplomatically, but he too became an abomination.  Fiona?  She sold herself and her kind to Tevinter.

 

The Templars chose a life of sacrifice and hardship of their own free will.  The lyrium they ingest is addictive and even if they live a long life, they end up insane and twitchy.  Some have abused their power, but they are needed, especially when the mages repeatedly make the wrong choice.  Mages are dangerous no matter which way you dice it.  Inquisition just showed me that the Templars are necessary.

[sleasye74]

It made me like the templars just a little bit more but no need for them when you have seekers, and it made me more of a grey warden supporter

 

WARDENS FOR LIFE

or at least till the last 2 blights are taken care of and they should really share that they can only kill an archdemon unless you want to have blood magic sex

 

And i cant wait for mages to start proving that they can handle there freedom like any other non-mage and start wars with its own country(Gaspard) or start wars with other countries (most other non-mage with money and power) and screw the vints they have been giving mages a bad name for too long

[Ryriena]

Actually both mages and Templar's are the victims of the Chantry. Didn't you feel and understand the anger that came out of Samsons voice during judgement? The Chantry was feeding these templars a highly addicted drug in form of control. The Chantry controls the supply of lyrium, and therefor have the power to control the templars. The Templar's is a large part of their military after all.

The Chantry is responsible for the incarceration of the mages
The Chantry is responsible for intentionally getting their military forces strung out on highly addictive drug that is known to cause severe side effects, and withdrawals.
The Chantry is responsible for causing the mage and Templar rebellion

Seems like everything bad happens is the result of the Chantry.

Yeah I understood quite well he was using the Chantry as an excuse for his bad behaviors and his own failings in getting taken by the Chantry. The Seekers became a problem once they let their pride take control of what they were supposed to be doing watching the templars or ie Internal affairs officers. This is what happens when people get involed with things and goverments for exmaple. They become to prideful in the end and fail too understand what they had done wrong.

[Ogillardetta]

It made me understand that some mages are to stupid and immature to be free. I was very pro mage freedom before this game.

[sleasye74]

Thats where the Tranquil come from! I need the tranquil to make ENCHANTMENT for me

I wish i could make cory tranquil (that would be fun)

[leaguer of one]

Not what I was talking about. I mean teleporting and stuff like that.

That's not teleporting. That's being accelerated.

[Lord Raijin]

It most certainly did.  It made me side with the Templars during my second playthrough.  I understand that mages were mistreated, but every time a crisis came knocking on their door, they made the wrong decision.  Uldred?  He went full abomination.  Orsino?  Tried his best to solve things diplomatically, but he too became an abomination.  Fiona?  She sold herself and her kind to Tevinter.

 

The Templars chose a life of sacrifice and hardship of their own free will.  The lyrium they ingest is addictive and even if they live a long life, they end up insane and twitchy.  Some have abused their power, but they are needed, especially when the mages repeatedly make the wrong choice.  Mages are dangerous no matter which way you dice it.  Inquisition just showed me that the Templars are necessary.

 

Yet so many Templars simply abuse their power, and force mages into a desperate situation where they're force to make wrong choices.

 

Uldred was fighting for his freedom, and almost had it until Wynne exposed Logain treachery (Which he promise to give the mages more freedom) to the senior members of the circle. Can you not blame Orsino? Look at who he had to deal with daily. With the Grand cleric not doing a damn thing could drive a sane man to do the unspeakable. Fiona was in a desperate situation. While I don't approve what she did.... I don't blame her. She wanted to do the right thing for her mages... to protect them from being slaughtered by the Templars. She and her mages were at war after all and needed all the help that they can get to get stronger.

 

While the Templars maybe needed... Seekers are needed as well... to find and to quickly eradicate the corruption within the Templar Order... to prevent another Knight-Commanders like Meredith and Martel from over stepping their boundaries to the point where they can cause severe and catastrophic damage.

[ThreeF]

 Fiona was in a desperate situation. While I don't approve what she did.... I don't blame her. She wanted to do the right thing for her mages... to protect them from being slaughtered by the Templars. She and her mages were at war after all and needed all the help that they can get to get stronger.

 

She more likely than not was manipulated into agreeing to Alexius terms, Alexius had plenty of time to find her buttons and push them. She approached the Inquisition on her own, but by the time you get to Redcliff  the timeline has already been tampered with.

[Darth Death]

Nope. Mages are still crazy as ever & we need a police force (Templars) to keep them under control. My views have not changed in that department. 

[JoltDealer]

Yet so many Templars simply abuse their power, and force mages into a desperate situation where they're force to make wrong choices.

 

Uldred was fighting for his freedom, and almost had it until Wynne exposed Logain treachery (Which he promise to give the mages more freedom) to the senior members of the circle. Can you not blame Orsino? Look at who he had to deal with daily. With the Grand cleric not doing a damn thing could drive a sane man to do the unspeakable. Fiona was in a desperate situation. While I don't approve what she did.... I don't blame her. She wanted to do the right thing for her mages... to protect them from being slaughtered by the Templars. She and her mages were at war after all and needed all the help that they can get to get stronger.

 

While the Templars maybe needed... Seekers are needed as well... to find and to quickly eradicate the corruption within the Templar Order... to prevent another Knight-Commanders like Meredith and Martel from over stepping their boundaries to the point where they can cause severe and catastrophic damage.

 

Of course there are Templars who abuse their power.  Knight-Commander Meredith is the most notable example.

 

Regardless of the circumstances, when mages are pushed into a corner, they make bad decisions.  What happens when Templars make bad decision?  A mage suffers.  What happens when a mage makes a bad decision?  Everyone suffers.  It's the lesser of two evils in my opinion.  Uldred's actions resulted in countless lives being lost and good mages being coerced into becoming abominations -- they too were killed eventually.  Orsino sacrificed everything he stood for and became a monster that killed god knows how many people on both sides.  Had the Inquisitor not intervened, Fiona's actions would have strengthened the Venatori, and Corypheus by proxy.

 

How did the Templars get taken over in Inquisition?  The lyrium in their blood was corrupted and their higher-ups were mind controlled by Corypheus, which lead to further corruption in the Order.  Samson was the only one that I knew of who actively volunteered for it.  Templars volunteer to ingest lyrium to protect the mages from each other, from the people, and vice versa.  There were certainly issues with the Templar Order before the Mage Rebellion, but they serve a necessary function.

[DaemionMoadrin]

No, I didn't change my mind at all. I was never in full support of any group, because people are people everywhere and most people are jerks or make stupid mistakes and you can't have any group without oversight.

 

The Circles were a flawed institution. By forcibly removing children from their families and locking them up in the Circle breeds resentment. Yes, some like Minaeve will be happy about the situation but most people require a little more freedom (or the illusion of it). This is the same problem the Jedi Order faced and it often lead to dark jedis and Sith once pressure was applied.

Mages deserve more freedom but you can't let them run around unsupervised either. Why can't each mage have a templar assigned to them while they go about their life? Rotate the templars out if they begin to become too attached.

 

The Templar Order is flawed as well. Lyrium addiction as control mechanism is not going to make people happy, especially if they are in danger to lose their minds.

 

The Chantry is imperfect as well, as are the Seekers.

 

The Qun? It's ideological slavery.

 

The Grey Wardens? Anything goes to stop the Darkspawn but there should be some kind of authority or control mechanism that stops them from going out of control - which happens quickly if they keep to themselves and reinforce each others views.

 

Tevinter? Slavery, blood magic and nobility. Still creepy.

 

Each group has their good and bad examples. Problem is no one ever tried to find a balance between making sure the bad ones can't do any damage and the good ones aren't suffering for it.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Not really, DA:I just showed me that mages can't be trusted with their freedom, they ain't normal people they're walking bombs with a persecution complex even tho their standard of living was far higher in the circles then any common people outside of it, id guess a elf living in poverty would jump at the chance to join a place where they have plenty of shelter, food & education

[Maniccc]

Nope, didn't change my mind at all.  As far as I was concerned, all the factions are bad, and I still think they're bad.  Chantry, Templars, Mage Circles, Mage rebels...all of them are bad.  Same with Qunari, Orlesians, Tevinter, all the nations.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Not really, DA:I just showed me that mages can't be trusted with their freedom, they ain't normal people they're walking bombs with a persecution complex even tho their standard of living was far higher in the circles then any common people outside of it, id guess a elf living in poverty would jump at the chance to join a place where they have plenty of shelter, food & education

 

Minaeve did just that. As she tells you, she was exiled from her dalish clan because they had too many mages. She eventually came into a human village but had no money, was starving and when she was attacked by predators, she summoned fire to keep them away. The villagers saw that, were afraid of her and nearly killed her but then the templars came, gave her warm clothes and food and took her to the Circle. She was so happy there. That's why she refused to rebel and tried to save the tranquil mages.

[Maniccc]

Not really, DA:I just showed me that mages can't be trusted with their freedom, they ain't normal people they're walking bombs with a persecution complex even tho their standard of living was far higher in the circles then any common people outside of it, id guess a elf living in poverty would jump at the chance to join a place where they have plenty of shelter, food & education

Some people prefer freedom to a gilded cage.  I know, crazy, right?  There are people who prize liberty above all else!  GASP

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Some people prefer freedom to a gilded cage.  I know, crazy, right?  There are people who prize liberty above all else!  GASP

What does freedom mean anyway? would likely go back to being like the pre chantry days where being suspected of being a mage was little better then a death sentence thx to terrified magic fearing lynch mobs

[Ryriena]

Minaeve did just that. As she tells you, she was exiled from her dalish clan because they had too many mages. She eventually came into a human village but had no money, was starving and when she was attacked by predators, she summoned fire to keep them away. The villagers saw that, were afraid of her and nearly killed her but then the templars came, gave her warm clothes and food and took her to the Circle. She was so happy there. That's why she refused to rebel and tried to save the tranquil mages.

Although, that lore also doesn't make sense with what we known in previous games so I call bull **** in this piece of lore. You can see many a retacon in that peace of lore to make the Templars out like saints. When it's been known in other games that they killed Dalish clans in the past for protecting their keepers.

They added many things to Dalish lore that did not make sense or contracted what was learned in past lore. According to Merill, the clans switch out Mages so no clan would go without being guided by their keepers. What Manurivs told our inqsuitior makes little sense to the lore of the previous games regarding the Dalish and their treatment of the mage children. It was done to make the Chantry look good in this game so you would pick the Templars, when the Dalish have a better system in place to protect Mages in their group than the Chantry.

[Hawklyn Starblade]

I dont get why ppl are confused on the Wardens purpose, they have never kept it secret; that they were an end the blight or bust organisation ie, whatever it takes, whatever the cost, so they cant realy be blamed for being to concerned with darkspawn etc.

Solas realy despises wardens, yet never presents any opinion on an alternative to Wardens or dealing with the blight, yet he implies he knows more about the blight and killing arch demons is not the end of the corruption etc, nor does present an alternative way to destroy arch demons.

[Ryriena]

I dont get why ppl are confused on the Wardens purpose, they have never kept it secret; that they were an end the blight or bust organisation ie, whatever it takes, whatever the cost, so they cant realy be blamed for being to concerned with darkspawn etc.

Solas realy despises wardens, yet never presents any opinion on an alternative to Wardens or dealing with the blight, yet he implies he knows more about the blight and killing arch demons is not the end of the corruption etc, nor does present an alternative way to destroy arch demons.

I agree I find it stupid that we can't find another way to killing arch demons in this game. I don't like the stupidty plot line they used to get them to look bad their were other ways to do this other than lol demon army.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I dont get why ppl are confused on the Wardens purpose, they have never kept it secret; that they were an end the blight or bust organisation ie, whatever it takes, whatever the cost, so they cant realy be blamed for being to concerned with darkspawn etc.

Solas realy despises wardens, yet never presents any opinion on an alternative to Wardens or dealing with the blight, yet he implies he knows more about the blight and killing arch demons is not the end of the corruption etc, nor does present an alternative way to destroy arch demons.

 

He's not wrong though.

 

The taint existed long before there were arch demons, killing them won't stop the Darkspawn. The Grey Wardens need to find the source of the taint and destroy that before they can even think about fighting all the darkspawn hordes underground.

[xnarcosysx]

It changed my mind on alot of things. Elves, especially Dalish, the templars, the grey wardens.

Honestly i think the next big thing to encounter is more qunari and human history. In DAO we were inundated with dwarves, got an intro to elves, a mere passing glimpse into qunari, and an even skat of humans.

In DA2 it seemed to be more just dwarf and human with a sprinkle of elves and a good intro to qunari.

In DAI it was all about elves, almost nothing of dwarves and humans and another satisfying chapter of qunari.

We've had 3 games cover 2 races a lot, 1 race evenly across the board, and 1 a good few chapters.

There is so much more to the tevinter/qunari history that should be explored but probably won't because of solas and his focus on finding elven artifacts.

I think looking into their history could change alot our views on them, especially finally getting a good idea as to wtf Kossith are.

[MiyuEmi]

The only thing it changed for me, and I can say this because it's a spoilers thread...spoiler coming, was that it made me far more interested in all the lore concerning Fen'Harel.  Fen'Harel was always just some Codex you read about but never really had any tangible information on.  Finally you get loads in game, but the information you did have is very inconsistent, which made me more interested in it.  Specifically Solas's comment that Elven gods were not technically gods. 

 

As far as the whole Mage/Templar thing, no.  I will always, always support the mages because I don't think anyone should be shackled because of the way they're born, unless they PROVE they're dangerous.  Templars have immense power, have proved they can be dangerous and hold the fate of another group in their hands.  While there are bad mages and bad Templars, there has always been, in-game, a huge focus on how bad mages are whereas bad Templars are just glossed over and are seemingly assumed to be less responsible for their actions.

[Ashagar]

Although, that lore also doesn't make sense with what we known in previous games so I call bull **** in this piece of lore. You can see many a retacon in that peace of lore to make the Templars out like saints. When it's been known in other games that they killed Dalish clans in the past for protecting their keepers.

They added many things to Dalish lore that did not make sense or contracted what was learned in past lore. According to Merill, the clans switch out Mages so no clan would go without being guided by their keepers. What Manurivs told our inqsuitior makes little sense to the lore of the previous games regarding the Dalish and their treatment of the mage children. It was done to make the Chantry look good in this game so you would pick the Templars, when the Dalish have a better system in place to protect Mages in their group than the Chantry.

 

I doubt it, its more a expansion of the lore, Its been stated in previous games that not all dalish clans are the same which is logical given they are spread out across Thadas. 

 

As for the templars there have also been examples in previous games of Templars saving mages who would have been killed and otherwise not being horrible to mages just as there have been examples of bad things, it merely shows that the organization is made of humans which was needed after the poor showing both the mages and Templars got in DA2.

[Ryriena]

I doubt it, its more a expansion of the lore, Its been stated in previous games that not all dalish clans are the same which is logical given they are spread out across Thadas.

As for the templars there have also been examples in previous games of Templars saving mages who would have been killed and otherwise not being horrible to mages just as there have been examples of bad things, it merely shows that the organization is made of humans which was needed after the poor showing both the mages and Templars got in DA2.

Yeah like the templars that attacked the Dalish in DA2 for helping that elf dreamer mage, or that reverend mother whom told my mage warden she wouldn't rally anyone against me. Or how Gregior beat up a pregnant mage because she refused to tell who the father was to him. The only one that was possibly good was Ser Carver and Thask. That's pushing the fact he is willing to take other children away to circle and not his own. Their were four Mages in the Wardens clan and not once had they told us each clan is different. Also four in zathiren clan ect

[Ashagar]

Are you saying that Sir Otto who went into the alienage, Knight captain Evangeline, Sir Emeric, Sir Brant and his lot at lothering and Aviline's husband amongst other examples were bad Templars?