What culture do they need to accept then? Qunari? It's no different from any cultures in Thedas.
Did Inquisition change the way you think about factions and lore?
#151
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 07:42
#152
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 01:07
While we have centuries of history we aren't privy to, and we have Seekers and templars who have crossed the line. And there are a number of templars who crossed the line who we are privy to: Alrik and his cohorts, who were using the Rite of Tranquility to rape women, and even using it against mages who already passed their Harrowing, like Karl; we have Karras, who raped at least one mage by using the threat of the Rite of Tranquility, and even makes a thinly veiled rape threat against female Hawke; we have a historical Rivaini templar, Ser Mhemet, who participated in the Exalted March because he simply wanted to kill elves; we have Meredith's templars who tortured a child of the clan with fire because they wanted to gather information about Feynriel, and use racist language when they confront the hunters of the Sabrae Clan; we have Meredith's death squad, who were willing to kill a civilian because she fed her tortured mage cousin. We also have the templars who sided with Corypheus.
It's hardly as though there are simply two bad apples in the whole bunch.
If we're going to bring up ancient history, shall we discuss the Tevinter Imperium -- a nation ruled by mages -- and the numerous ways they just screwed the world? They brought down the Elves, gave rise to the Darkspawn, and use blood magic like it's an app for the iPhone. As for the others, for every Karras or Alrik, there's a Quentin, Tarohne, Idunna, or Grace. Dragon Age 2 really did a good job of presenting that both sides had its share of bastards.
Merrill didn't force Marethari to free Audacity from the totem; the Keeper did that, and she alone is responsible for her own actions. I'm not going to blame Merrill for the actions of other grown adults.
Like I said, it was inadvertent. I wouldn't outright blame Merrill, but her obsession with purifying and restoring the Eluvian set the chain of events that lead to Marethari's death in motion. Audacity was planning to use Merrill to repair the Eluvian, escape, and then murder her. Keeper Marethari did what she did to prevent that. It might've been of her own free will, but had Merrill not dabbled in blood magic, that demon would likely still be bound to that statue.
Also, Audacity was summoned by either the Tevinter Imperium or the Elves for the sake of fighting one another. When it was over, it was bound to the statue and left there. Even without Merrill, Audacity was there because of mages.
It's never stated anywhere that templars rarely kill non-mages. We know that templars participated in the Exalted March of the Dales, and at least one only joined simply because he wanted to kill elves - "Ser Mhemet, a Rivaini templar, fought in the Exalted March on the Dales for one reason: his love of killing elves, which pushed him to so many victories, the Chantry elevated him to Anointed after his death. To this day, Halamshiral elves consider his name a curse."
In fact, we ran into a few examples where templars cross the line, like the templars who tried to kill a child named Aneirin because they claimed he was maleficar, even though this was completely bogus. There is also the story about the Magnificent D'Sims; he was "was an elven 'healer' who 'cured' hayseeds of nonexistent ailments. Even though it was all a scam, the templars declared him apostate and took off his head. Oddly, his staff turned out to be genuinely enchanted." D'Sims is the example of a charlatan who was killed by the templars because he was pretending to heal people.
Questioning it doesn't really help all the people who are innocent of Anders' actions and being killed because the templars are following orders.
Never said it did. Look at Blackwall's story. Some people follow their commanders blindly out of faith and trust. Cullen was the same with Meredith, but he did not do it with a clean conscience and that counts for something. He stood against her when it became clear that she was mad.
#153
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:26
Not really I've always felt the Circle solution was doomed to failure
But have also never felt all templars were evil or unnecessary
I also think it had been pretty clear from the beginning that the player was to take pretty much all the lore they are given with a grain of salt
nobody really knew the "truth" about anything
So finding out that the Elves destroyed themselves wasn't a big shocker, more just a confirmation of my belief that we have been fed half-truths and superstitions since day one
which I think is pretty awesome
#154
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:31
I really hated what they did to the Wardens, to me the wardens are the coolest faction and it pained me to see them mind controlled like that to kill the Divine.
- Nykara et Aren aiment ceci
#155
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:32
After reading a lot of comments on here, and having played the game of course ( although I haven't played 2 yet ). I am actually wondering if maybe Leliana's stance on the whole thing wasn't so bad afterall. I mean I supported Cass for Divine because I didn't think Leliana would be a good choice in how she gets things done. However, everyone being treated equally doesn't sound so bad either. Her end goal is sound. There is so much corruption in everything in the DA world. So many laws that need changing across the board and when that fails and people are sick of all the games, there needs to be some place safe they can all go and be treated as equals. Mages, Templars, Dalish, Quin. All of them. There are so many good in all of them that are constantly screwed over by the corruption in the so called governing groups.
#156
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:38
I really hated what they did to the Wardens, to me the wardens are the coolest faction and it pained me to see them mind controlled like that to kill the Divine.
I think they wanted to erase any lingering notions of the Wardens as noble heroes and ram home just what a ruthless and morally ambiguous group they are. Bioware just did it in a fairly hamfisted way with the whole cockamamie "use blood magic to summon a horde of demons to fight the Darkspawn" scheme, which was just too stupid and implausible for words. I've always seen the Wardens as a fairly shady organisation, so them doing unpleasant things isn't a surprise; it's the pants-on-head stupidity that got lobbed on them that irks me.
#157
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:47
Since, in DA:O Duncan kills Sir Jorey for backing out and you could tell he was not Warden material by just talking to him.
Why in the frak did Calrie not wait on info from the first Warden? After all she sent for an answer.
#158
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 03:51
It did. I hate the Chantry more than before.
- LobselVith8 aime ceci
#159
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 04:26
made me more convinced than ever that the only good Adrastrian is a dead Andrastrian, and given that this game is absolutely fine with genocide, I don't see why elves are the only targets. I want a field of pyres as fire as the eye can see, with impaled maker cultists writhing and screaming as they slowly cook, dying by inches over the course of weeks, denied the death they crave by magic.
#160
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:02
made me more convinced than ever that the only good Adrastrian is a dead Andrastrian, and given that this game is absolutely fine with genocide, I don't see why elves are the only targets. I want a field of pyres as fire as the eye can see, with impaled maker cultists writhing and screaming as they slowly cook, dying by inches over the course of weeks, denied the death they crave by magic.
- Bigdoser aime ceci
#161
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:06
*awesome image*
(Awful but funny, since I can't tell what he is 'singing' the lyrics may or may not be sfw)
it would be the most honest and honourable faith in Thedas if it came along, by the Lore most templars have the sadism and hatred of mages nailed down tight already.
#162
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:11
it would be the most honest and honourable faith in Thedas if it came along, by the Lore most templars have the sadism and hatred of mages nailed down tight already.
I'm pretty sure the Tevinters are agents Tzeentch anyway.
#163
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:12
I'm pretty sure the Tevinters are agents Tzeentch anyway.
I figured more Slaneesh. Probably both in fact.
#164
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:14
I figured more Slaneesh. Probably both in fact.
Chaos Undivided maybe?
#165
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:23
It could have.
But Bioware's heavy handed approach has only served to strengthen my opinions of the Cult of Andraste and a lot of things borne of it.
Comparing and contrasting the fates and mistakes of factions like the Templars and Mages has left me bitter. The Templars had multiple voices that were heard loud and clear while the Rebel Mages were left with a dittering old bat named Fiona. And despite the Mage rebellion having its share of malcontents, not one of them lifted a finger to stop her. Unlike the Templar veterans whom the protagonist can rally alongside Ser Barris.
The Dalish were made to look like misguided fools who deserved their fate. Their blood writing borne of slavery to gods. The Elven orb that caused the breach makes matters worse.
In contrast, the Chantry arch is full of redemption stories, a Disney number, sweet old Chantry women who are the protagonist's saviors (literally), and choosing the next Divine. Not to mention that it was Justinia's hands and a Templar that started the Inquisition in the first place.
It is over the top and clearly begs me to lean a certain way while denigrating all other options.
- IanPolaris, LobselVith8, Patchwork et 3 autres aiment ceci
#166
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:34
I really hated what they did to the Wardens, to me the wardens are the coolest faction and it pained me to see them mind controlled like that to kill the Divine.
I'm not sure how anyone who played Origins could think the wardens weren't morally ambiguous
I mean christ Duncan murders poor Jory in cold blood because he wants to protect the Warden's secrets
And the things you can do as Warden are pretty awful
yet you still save the day
I played the Warden as a hero, but I didn't have any illusions about the Wardens
#167
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 05:38
I think they wanted to erase any lingering notions of the Wardens as noble heroes and ram home just what a ruthless and morally ambiguous group they are. Bioware just did it in a fairly hamfisted way with the whole cockamamie "use blood magic to summon a horde of demons to fight the Darkspawn" scheme, which was just too stupid and implausible for words. I've always seen the Wardens as a fairly shady organisation, so them doing unpleasant things isn't a surprise; it's the pants-on-head stupidity that got lobbed on them that irks me.
They've been stupid since DAO.
#168
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 06:16
It could have.
But Bioware's heavy handed approach has only served to strengthen my opinions of the Cult of Andraste and a lot of things borne of it.
Comparing and contrasting the fates and mistakes of factions like the Templars and Mages has left me bitter. The Templars had multiple voices that were heard loud and clear while the Rebel Mages were left with a dittering old bat named Fiona. And despite the Mage rebellion having its share of malcontents, not one of them lifted a finger to stop her. Unlike the Templar veterans whom the protagonist can rally alongside Ser Barris.
The Dalish were made to look like misguided fools who deserved their fate. Their blood writing borne of slavery to gods. The Elven orb that caused the breach makes matters worse.
In contrast, the Chantry arch is full of redemption stories, a Disney number, sweet old Chantry women who are the protagonist's saviors (literally), and choosing the next Divine. Not to mention that it was Justinia's hands and a Templar that started the Inquisition in the first place.
It is over the top and clearly begs me to lean a certain way while denigrating all other options.
^ This is my view as well they so wanted to paint the chantry as the right cause to fight for, since your working for them in a defacto way.
Same on the Dalish they were interesting in the first two games without making it seem like they were misguided fools and threw mage children out of their clans which was in contrast of the previous two games lore.
Then, they had the lol demon plot with the Wardens, but I still though they were morally ambiguous before DA:I so no change their.
With the Mages, they made Fiona stupid and ridiculous, since why on earth would a ex slave sale her own people in too salvery and no one tries to stop her. That is the biggest what moment in the game for me!
Then were shown the Chantry, as being, the best thing since sliced bread in this game. Instead of being the morally ambiguous relgion it has been in the past.
They also really made the Elven race look like the deserve to be subjected by the Chantry even though lore suggest that chantry involement and already existing tensions started the Exalted March on the Dales.
- IanPolaris, LobselVith8, Darkly Tranquil et 1 autre aiment ceci
#169
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 06:24
I didn't like that Wardens were so numerous in DAI. I thought they were rare and unheard in DAO, kind of like jedi. Any idiot can be a warden in DAI by the looks of it.
#170
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 10:21
A bit unfair to judge the Grey Wardens imo, yes they were stupid, but there was mind manipulation involved. Cory just took advantage of their order, and as honoroble as some of them are, they take anyone, they are like night's watch, so there are some pretty awful people there im sure.
Still, when the next blight comes, who you gonna call? I think they should just change a few thing in the order itself.
but it did change or enhance a lot of my opinions:
Dalish: even cooler now
Qun and Tevinter: not all suck, thanks Bull and Dorian!
Orlais: stuck up people that can't get anything done right by inside politics and "the game" (but it's pretty cool
to play the game i'll give you that)
My warden's son: i wondered if he would grow up to be a weird ****** darkspawn looking kid, but he looks ok. Still not sure what he is going to be up to, hope they put him in some main event (if you didn't have the son, morrigan found another way yadayada, we can make this work)
Templars: also better, the templar misson shows a lot of good people there.
I think coryfynicorns actually brought out some important issues in the factions, how he could breach their ranks by using their weakness, if anything, some factions will learn from that, there is a silver lining there.
#171
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 10:25
I didn't like that Wardens were so numerous in DAI. I thought they were rare and unheard in DAO, kind of like jedi. Any idiot can be a warden in DAI by the looks of it.
if i'm not mistaken most of them died during the battle at Ostagar, that's why there were so few. And any idiot can be a warden or at least try, it's like a night's watch of sorts, a lot are put in a position "punishment for crimes or do the joining".
But yea, that "jedi" feeling from DAO was pretty cool.
#172
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 11:18
I think they wanted to erase any lingering notions of the Wardens as noble heroes and ram home just what a ruthless and morally ambiguous group they are. Bioware just did it in a fairly hamfisted way with the whole cockamamie "use blood magic to summon a horde of demons to fight the Darkspawn" scheme, which was just too stupid and implausible for words. I've always seen the Wardens as a fairly shady organisation, so them doing unpleasant things isn't a surprise; it's the pants-on-head stupidity that got lobbed on them that irks me.
Not at all. The point was to show that while wardens have there virtues they also have there flaws. Even from DA, the one sided nature of only look to ending the blight is shown to be self destructive for the order. You'll see this more if you read last flight.
#173
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 11:33
It could have.
But Bioware's heavy handed approach has only served to strengthen my opinions of the Cult of Andraste and a lot of things borne of it.
Comparing and contrasting the fates and mistakes of factions like the Templars and Mages has left me bitter. The Templars had multiple voices that were heard loud and clear while the Rebel Mages were left with a dittering old bat named Fiona. And despite the Mage rebellion having its share of malcontents, not one of them lifted a finger to stop her. Unlike the Templar veterans whom the protagonist can rally alongside Ser Barris.
The Dalish were made to look like misguided fools who deserved their fate. Their blood writing borne of slavery to gods. The Elven orb that caused the breach makes matters worse.
In contrast, the Chantry arch is full of redemption stories, a Disney number, sweet old Chantry women who are the protagonist's saviors (literally), and choosing the next Divine. Not to mention that it was Justinia's hands and a Templar that started the Inquisition in the first place.
It is over the top and clearly begs me to lean a certain way while denigrating all other options.
You make good points. This is probably why I enjoyed Inquisition as much as I did, since it matched my view of Thedas before Inquisition was released.
#174
Posté 16 janvier 2015 - 11:44
If I had any doubt that the Templars were a-holes, this plus Cass' argument with the Templar complaining that the Inquisition isn't hunting down mages sealed that the Templars are still the same a-holes they always were:
http://youtu.be/fdaT9hu0Vr0?t=13m29s
#175
Posté 17 janvier 2015 - 12:03





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