96 réponses à ce sujet

[Lee T]

ts just like the ending along the way Mac and Casey seem to have forgot that ME is a roleplaying series and instead they wanted to tell their story with their default Shepard -.-

Which seems like the most likely explanation. Either that or they didn't realise how much cinematizing hurt roleplaying and how luch choice, even illusionary ones, are important in that their games. The dialog wheel in ME2 is already severly reduced compared to ME1, so this evolution shouldn't have took us by suprise.

[Orikon]

Because it gives a more movie-like experience which is what BW was going for without showering the player with dialogue options in every conversation.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Hopefully they take cues from DAI. That game has maybe one or two auto dialogue lines total, and that's due to a specific plot spoiler that you can avoid. Other than that, not only does it have literally FULL dialogue control, you are almost always using a maxed dialogue wheel (around up to 6 dialogue options, including the investigates that lead to plenty plenty more.) The DA writing team gets that this is another factor in replay value, and making the character yours. Hopefully the ME writing team follows suit for the NME. 

[AgentMrOrange]

I agree this aspect is what ruined ME3 for me the most. having my shepard saying thing out of character for her like she misses garrus or being upset at joker for making a joke about the asari. If this was the first game in the series I would be find with it however after ME and ME2 it feels wrong to me to strip so much control away from the player. I don't care how hollow the choices are in ME it was nice to have that illusion of choice.  

[RoboticWater]

If I am properly informed, I believe:

1)ME3 had the most lines of dialog out of all the games

2)ME1/2 had many options which lead to the exact same outcome

 

My take is that seeming is more important than being. I can't hate ME3 for just showing me the actual amount of dialog options and cutting through effectively unnecessary choices; however, I think the previous games handled dialog a bit better. Lying to players is actually acceptable in this situation. It allows them to think they have control while maintaining a consistent level of dialog complexity.

 

The same principal applies to the Suicide mission. In reality, every choice is trivial (who wouldn't use a loyal squadmate whose title is "The Biotic," as the shield?) and the results nearly identical. While the choice between Tali and Legion for the pipe may contain some roleplaying value (how much you trust Geth, how fragile you think Tali is, etc.), the outcome is always the same: they succeed if they're loyal and get shot in the face if they aren't. The game could have easily made the choices for you, merely picking out the first option which guaranteed success, and I doubt people's endgame would have been much different, but allowing the player more agency engages and entertains them to a much greater degree.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Who cares about picking choice, personality and making your own character, bro? Everybody knows Mass Effect is loved for the shooting and explosions!!!

 

Seriously though, Patrick Weeke said they did it because it was good for the "flow" of the conversations. I'm just grateful DAI didn't follow this path and ME4 probably won't either.

[pdusen]

You know, replaying the whole trilogy right now, and I'm honestly kind of surprised by how much autodialogue really is in ME1 and ME2.

[Han Shot First]

Because it gives a more movie-like experience which is what BW was going for without showering the player with dialogue options in every conversation.

 

Fans around here tend to have the knee-jerk reaction to autodialogue that its all bad, but when it is used well it does exactly that. And when used well I think the game is improved because of it. It allows for more cinematic conversations, which isn't a bad thing. Conversation in Mass Effect 1 is a lot more stilted than it is in Mass Effect 3.

 

Where it goes off the rails a bit is when the main character autodialogues stuff that either make him or her sound like a dope, or voices an opinion that the main character could conceivably disagree with.

 

On that note I hope some autodialogue returns, but that the devs are more careful with how & when it is used.

[Jaron Oberyn]

No one is disputing that it makes for good cutscenes. But for a series that promoted itself on being your own player, it failed to deliver. It also kills the replay value of the series as a whole, as you get tired of seeing the same dialogue over and over again. I felt this way on my second me3 playthrough, whereas DAI I played 5 back to back and had completely unique dialogue each and every time, not to mention the choices and consequences that are heavily prevalent throughout that game. If they want to stick to the same with NME, then keep it consistent and be honest about it rather than marketing it as something that it wasn't. Shepard is no different from Geralt in me3.

[Andrew Lucas]

Han is right, autodialogue being used right, it's not a bad thing. Some scenes in ME3 were amazing because of that. They just needed to be careful to not make Shepard act opposite to the player's wishes.

[ImaginaryMatter]

If I am properly informed, I believe:

1)ME3 had the most lines of dialog out of all the games

2)ME1/2 had many options which lead to the exact same outcome

 

My take is that seeming is more important than being. I can't hate ME3 for just showing me the actual amount of dialog options and cutting through effectively unnecessary choices; however, I think the previous games handled dialog a bit better. Lying to players is actually acceptable in this situation. It allows them to think they have control while maintaining a consistent level of dialog complexity.

 

The same principal applies to the Suicide mission. In reality, every choice is trivial (who wouldn't use a loyal squadmate whose title is "The Biotic," as the shield?) and the results nearly identical. While the choice between Tali and Legion for the pipe may contain some roleplaying value (how much you trust Geth, how fragile you think Tali is, etc.), the outcome is always the same: they succeed if they're loyal and get shot in the face if they aren't. The game could have easily made the choices for you, merely picking out the first option which guaranteed success, and I doubt people's endgame would have been much different, but allowing the player more agency engages and entertains them to a much greater degree.

 

There are options that lead to the same lines of dialogue (although some of them do differ in tone). However, even if you subtract those dialogue prompts from the total number of dialogue prompts yous still have significantly more prompts. Which I think is where you get into the conundrum where the game has much fewer dialogue prompts and so much more dialogue. I think much of the dialogue lines are taken by slight differences you see in conversations based on past choices from the other games. That probably took enough time that once the developers finished with those changes it was time to wrap up.

[CroGamer002]

They focused way too much to be cinematic and to appease people who thought Shepard doesn't have enough of own characteristics.

[KaiserShep]

Because it gives a more movie-like experience which is what BW was going for without showering the player with dialogue options in every conversation.

 

ME3 did go overboard on a few occasions, though. The prologue sequence was probably the biggest offender. There are many lines spoken with no prompts at all for much longer than I would consider welcome. I trust that the devs will make a stronger effort to strike a better balance between chosen dialogue and autodialogue. I like a good cinematic experience myself, but at the same time, I don't want it to make too big a sacrifice on the number of options we can have when the protagonist says something. I thought Inquisition actually did this quite well compared to the entire ME series, though ME2 did find that sweet spot a lot.

[omgodzilla]

Auto dialogue was a little annoying in places. Especially in the Monastery mission where Shepard says "I'm sorry" and then comforts Falere after Rila blows herself up. Its just that I always shoot her in cold blood afterwards so it makes it a little awkward... 

[SilJeff]

the amount of autodialogue in ME3 isn't as big of a jump as people make it out to be, thanks to 1 and 2 having plenty of times where the dialogue wheel was useless thanks to every option on it leading to the same exact line.

 

Definitely went overboard here, but the other games were almost as guilty

[Vazgen]

the amount of autodialogue in ME3 isn't as big of a jump as people make it out to be, thanks to 1 and 2 having plenty of times where the dialogue wheel was useless thanks to every option on it leading to the same exact line.

 

Definitely went overboard here, but the other games were almost as guilty

While I agree that the other games had another issue with presenting the same line for different options, it at least gave options for the first time you played the game. Surely, you figured it out on the consequent playthroughs but the initial one maintained that illusion of choice. Autodialogue removes that illusion right from the first playthrough.

[Shechinah]

The thing about auto-dialogue is that when it is done well it is rarely noticable hence why it seems less but when it is not, it is very noticable and so there seems so much more of it. This also applies to what sort of character you play as I play a very paragon sort of Shepard in one game and I did not notice it that often because the words and actions fitted my Shepard but with my third Shepard, it led to a lot of out-of-character moments that stuck out.

 

An example cited in Mass Effect 2 is the hug scene with Liara upon meeting her which fitted with my first Shepard because they were friends but less with my other Shepard for whom hugging Tali in her grief was unusual which showed a softer side. The problem with the Liara hug is that it is an auto-action versus Tali is a player choice. (Did that make sense?)

 

Auto-dialogue is especially grinding in ME3 because there are segments where I reload a save because a dialogue option I picked didn't fit only to discover that it was the same for both options because it was auto-dialogue. I thought it was tied to the upper option because it sounded distinctively paragon.

 

In short: auto-dialogue was in all games but it feels so much more prominent in Mass Effect 3 because it is so much more noticable because it colors Shepard's actions and words with a specific tone or opinions that goes against the player's.

[Vazgen]

To be fair, ME3 autodialogue changed depending on your dialogue options. For example, on Menae, when meeting General Corinthus. If you choose "I'm sorry" the resulting autodialogue about the comm tower is something like "Don't worry general, I'll get your comm tower operational.". If you choose "Damned Reapers" the autodialogue is something like "Well, I won't leave this moon without a Primarch. I'll fix your tower". 

[Shechinah]

(to Vazgen) Hmmm, I was not aware of that but it is interesting. It is not all of the auto-dialogue that does not that, unfortunatley, which is the problem.  

[JamieCOTC]

Who cares about picking choice, personality and making your own character, bro? Everybody knows Mass Effect is loved for the shooting and explosions!!!

 

Seriously though, Patrick Weeke said they did it because it was good for the "flow" of the conversations. I'm just grateful DAI didn't follow this path and ME4 probably won't either.

 

Weekes mentioned that there was a backlash to the auto-dialogue in ME3 and that was partly why it was not used in DA:I. The Inquisitor comes off as a little bland, but I don't believe this is a result of a lack of auto-dialogue, but due to the choices in the game. For all its faults I think the DA:I system is on the  right track. Anyway, have to agree w/ OP. I hated the auto-dialogue in ME3. I could see using it in a spin-off game or a second trilogy, but after allowing players to  establish a sort of "ownership" of Shepard in two games, the auto-dialogue just took that away for the third one.

[Barquiel]

I didn't have too many problems with the autodialogue in ME3. I think there was a bit too much of it in the prologue (We fight or we die!) and during the council meeting (Earth! Earth! Earth!)...but most of the time my Shepard didn't react out of character.

I found the limited or unclear choices within the dialogue wheel (in all three ME games) much more problematic than the conversations in which I couldn't choose anything at all. This began in ME1...no matter what dialogue options you choose, Shepard is comparing the First Contact War to the genophage. In ME2 we have nonsense like the "soul of our species" line or "I won't let fear compromise who I am". And the pro-human/Earth-centrist dialogue (no matter whether you choose paragon or renegade responses) in ME3 annoyed me to no end. Or "There is no Shepard without Vakarian". I mean, I don't hate Garrus. But that's something I'd never, ever put into the mouth of any of my Shepards. What's my other option on the dialogue wheel? "Shepard and Vakarian, storming heaven"...

[Iakus]

Who cares about picking choice, personality and making your own character, bro? Everybody knows Mass Effect is loved for the shooting and explosions!!!

 

Seriously though, Patrick Weeke said they did it because it was good for the "flow" of the conversations. I'm just grateful DAI didn't follow this path and ME4 probably won't either.

Probably meant "It was good for conversations for players who turned off choices"

[jaypaul97]

Because it gives a more movie-like experience which is what BW was going for without showering the player with dialogue options in every conversation.

It's not a very good movie, then. TBH the only strength these games have is the element of choice. And I would argue the most significant parts where choice is found is in dialogue options. Actually hardly any choices are made by simply doing things.