96 réponses à ce sujet

[SilJeff]

While I agree that the other games had another issue with presenting the same line for different options, it at least gave options for the first time you played the game. Surely, you figured it out on the consequent playthroughs but the initial one maintained that illusion of choice. Autodialogue removes that illusion right from the first playthrough.

 

I'd rather the game not lie to the players that there's choice when there isn't

[Iakus]

I'd rather the game not lie to the players that there's choice when there isn't

I'd rather not have to choose one or the other at all.

[Linkenski]

The problem with the auto dialogue was that it practically gave me phantom pains.

I would stop paying attention in any given cut scene of ME3 where Shepard was asked something and responded with an opinion or a reaction and I would think "that could've well has been a paragon choice" and it went like that with all possible variables. "that sounded like neutral response", Shepard, you're being an auto-renegade now. Etc.

It ****** sucked. I still can't believe it.

I've lost people who were close to me to cancer and sometimes ME3 has put me through just as much grief as the former. That's sad. (in both ways)

[Vazgen]

I thought ME2 did it best
ME1 too often the options resulted in the same dialogue but ME3 went just full retard with AutoShep

ME2 the dialogue wheel was balanced and instead of improving it more in ME3 they just got rid of it for major parts of the game

 

stupid as hell but thats Mac &Co. for you

Ah, yes, balanced dialogue wheel in ME2. When you get to choose between more or less Paragon/Renegade for a very large part of the game. Very balanced...

/sarcasm

Spoiler

[wright1978]

I thought ME2 did it best
ME1 too often the options resulted in the same dialogue but ME3 went just full retard with AutoShep
ME2 the dialogue wheel was balanced and instead of improving it more in ME3 they just got rid of it for major parts of the game
 
stupid as hell but thats Mac &Co. for you

Yep thought me2 dialogue wheel was well balanced too. Can't believe they stripped out neutral option in me3 and went with high levels of characterising auto-dialogue.

[KaiserShep]

After spending a great deal of time with the DA series, it can feel pretty stifling to return to this series and the increasing amount of autodialogue. ME3's prologue is one of the greatest offenders in the entire thing, because of just how much dialogue is spoken without a prompt.

[Drone223]

Yep thought me2 dialogue wheel was well balanced too. Can't believe they stripped out neutral option in me3 and went with high levels of characterising auto-dialogue.

ME2 was not balanced players were forced to be either all paragon/renegade throughout the entire game in order to resolve the confrontations between Miranda/Jack and Legion/Tali.

[Linkenski]

I also thought me2 did it best. Almost all options were unique as opposed to me1 where 50% made Shepard say the exact same line. That's probably why it alternated so much between having neutral and paragon and neutral and renegade and less full para, neutral, renegade at once.

I was always very neutral in both ME1 and ME2 and I also always resolved the character conflicts without losing loyalty. I thought it was nicely balanced.

Reputation system in ME3 is okay... a bit too streamlined for my liking as I like the consequence for going for paragon rather than renegade, and I also think Bioware should strive to make non-persuades compelling too.

But the real deal here is that ME2 balanced it the best simply for having spoken dialogue that isn't the same for all choices as ME1 and to not have an excessive amount of auto dialogue like ME3.

I still hope they slap Inquisition's Dialogue Wheel design onto ME4, also the opt-in dialogues during gameplay and hopefully timed dialogs (finally)

[Linkenski]

After spending a great deal of time with the DA series, it can feel pretty stifling to return to this series and the increasing amount of autodialogue. ME3's prologue is one of the greatest offenders in the entire thing, because of just how much dialogue is spoken without a prompt.

Meh. The intro is the worst offender in having the most amount of asinine drama and nonsense through normal characters in an otherwise believable setting.

On the other hand I counted about 2 or 3 entire shuttle scenes pre and post mission where there was no input from the player whatsoever. They were just cut scenes. I keep saying it, but I'm still dumbfounded over the fact that this is fully developed by Bioware. I took player agency for granted and naturally, why would anyone ever think Bioware would break that? I always had a sneaking suspicion that Action Mode is partly to blame though (and Mac said he was the one who came up with that idea) because it put green lights for more choreographed animations in scenes and such. That really makes flexibility in pausing scenes for branching dialogue harder to animate.

Kinda funny because I thought this was Mass Effect... not Uncharted.

[wright1978]

ME2 was not balanced players were forced to be either all paragon/renegade throughout the entire game in order to resolve the confrontations between Miranda/Jack and Legion/Tali.

 

No they weren't forced to be either all paragon/renegade. My characters are always mixed in terms of their decisions and i never had an issue of having at least one of the resolve the confrontations (remain loyalty) options, that before we even go into the notion that other ways of resolving it (that lose loyalty) are not inherently bad.

[KaiserShep]

Oh man I totally forgot about Action Mode. The hell were they thinking with that? I'm genuinely curious though. How do the main missions even play out if you select this? Thinking about this more, it's probably this part of the game that accounts for the way a lot of dialogue plays out. Turrrible. I really hope that the next game doesn't even approach this again.

[Drone223]

freaking useless Action mode who even played that?

And as always Mac came up the stupid ideas not surprised there

Do you have proof that it was his idea alone? Because it was most likely a decision made by several people at Bioware not just one person.

 

No they weren't forced to be either all paragon/renegade. My characters are always mixed in terms of their decisions and i never had an issue of having at least one of the resolve the confrontations (remain loyalty) options, that before we even go into the notion that other ways of resolving it (that lose loyalty) are not inherently bad.

It was forced due to the poor implementation of the morality system in ME2. I'm pretty sure that there are PC players that moded their game to have max P/R because they didn't like being forced to play all paragon and renegade to resolve those conflicts. Not to mention it was even worse on the 360/PS3 versions since players had to.

[Wulfram]

I think you had a lot more leeway if you imported from ME1.

IIRC I had a character who was renegade enough to get the full freaky appearance but still managed to resolve Tali/Legion with Paragon. Which was a little surreal.

[Ianamus]

I hated the opening segment of ME3, Shepard spoke far too much on their own and felt incredibly out of character. Why would somebody who has never been to Earth before, has spent years living and working with aliens and has a alien lover on a different world be so dead set on remaining on Earth? It just felt cheap. 

 

I didn't really have any issues with auto dialogue after that though. There were a few instances where the game decided what the reasons for my Sheaprds choices had been and they didn't fit, but it went back to feeling more like my own character. 

 

Until the ending, when Shepard suddenly became both a defeatist and an idiot. I still can't believe that the same team who made Palaven, The Genophage and Rannoch missions made that opening sequence and ending sequence. 

[Drone223]

he was the lead writer but you are right I should have mentioned Casey Hudson too
those two were quite the team sooo many bad decisions regarding ME3 its like they were trying to set up a record (auto-dialogue, bad beginning, even worse ending etc.)

There was a huge team involved, it wasn't made by two people it's just silly saying that everything that happen in the games development flaws and all was done by two people alone as the development was huge joint effort.

I'm not defending any mistakes made in the development of ME3 since they need to be pointed (the fact that ME3 has way too much auto-dialogue being one of those mistakes) out to improve future titles but dev's team clearly had good intentions when they were making the game it's just things didn't being what they hoped, There is no evil conspiracy by Bioware or any of the dev's for that matter to deliberately upset the fans.

Also do you have proof that they alone were responsible for action mode?

Modifié par Drone223, 09 février 2015 - 04:55 .

[Linkenski]

Oh man I totally forgot about Action Mode. The hell were they thinking with that? I'm genuinely curious though. How do the main missions even play out if you select this? Thinking about this more, it's probably this part of the game that accounts for the way a lot of dialogue plays out. Turrrible. I really hope that the next game doesn't even approach this again.

I actually did a partial playthrough of ME3 in action mode. From what I could tell it always picked renegade options and characters become uninteractive when they would otherwise have investigate dialogue. So maybe action mode is slightly linked to the amount of "squad commentary banter" on the Normandy as well even though I know it also has to do with budget and resources.

@Drone223, I can't find it right away since I'm on cellphone right now but there is a text-interview somewhere from Mac where he says "you know, I was actually the one who came up with that [action mode]" and he also mentioned (back in 2011) that he thought there was a lot of things "done right" in Uncharted 2 that Bioware could take to heart. Thus ME3 Action Mode and roller-coaster levels and set pieces. I can't say I was a fan.

Funny because a week ago there was a thread about Mass Effect 2 vs Uncharted 2 on NeoGAF and personally I like both ( ME2 is more of a favorite though) but I hate comparing the two because both are great in their own right and shouldn't influence each other too much IMO.

[The Antagonist]

the prologue is the only section where, I felt, auto dialogue was egregious. The rest of the game benefited greatly from it. I did miss the third option though.

[The Antagonist]

the prologue is the only section where, I felt, auto dialogue was egregious. The rest of the game benefited greatly from it. I did miss the third option though.

[MrFob]

I never got why so many people are bashing the action mode. That mode is not a problem at all IMO. It's just a toggle and no one is forcing it on anyone. If someone wants to only get half the experience out of the game, that's fine by me and it is really easy to implement, so I don't think any other feature got cut for that.

I guess people are more mad about what it represents than what it actually is, which is fair enough, but rationally, there really is no reason to dislike the option (not to bring it up in this discussion, which is clearly about playing the game in RPG mode).

[wright1978]

I never got why so many people are bashing the action mode. That mode is not a problem at all IMO. It's just a toggle and no one is forcing it on anyone. If someone wants to only get half the experience out of the game, that's fine by me and it is really easy to implement, so I don't think any other feature got cut for that.
I guess people are more mad about what it represents than what it actually is, which is fair enough, but rationally, there really is no reason to dislike the option (not to bring it up in this discussion, which is clearly about playing the game in RPG mode).

Well I view it as if they decided to give option to skip combat, would the quality of the combat diminish if it suddenly became optional. Maybe it's putting 2 and 2 together and making five that action mode was involved in way sequences were designed to remove player choice and instead have extensive characterising auto-dialogue.

[MrFob]

Well I view it as if they decided to give option to skip combat, would the quality of the combat diminish if it suddenly became optional. Maybe it's putting 2 and 2 together and making five that action mode was involved in way sequences were designed to remove player choice and instead have extensive characterising auto-dialogue.

 

Why do you think the quality of combat would diminish because it becomes optional? Besides, that is basically the case on narrative difficulty.

 

Also, the game doesn't have to be designed for action mode. All that does is auto-picking a response. It's easy to just tag on. It would have been just as easy to tag onto ME1 and ME2. I don't see how you can make action mode responsible for the shortcomings in ME3's dialogue.