142 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

When it comes to whether our choices matter, I'm almost completely desensitized by the ending to Mass Effect 3.

[Vox Draco]

When it comes to whether our choices matter, I'm almost completely desensitized by the ending to Mass Effect 3.

 

Indeed. And I would love if people would finally get over this whole "choices that matter and consequences"-mantra ... I never really understood this fetish. A story can be good even if you never make a choice (you know, like reading a book...), so its not necessary in any way for an RPG, and in the end all choices and consequences are only alternate ways to tell the story, and makes it a lot harder to keep everything coherent (look ME...hello you little Rachni, nice saving you and never care for you again !^^ Choice totally mattered!)

[x2seeybir]

QFT. No game has ever been released exactly as it was advertized.
 
Hell, i remember Bioshock Infinite's TV commercials using scenes that weren't anywhere in the game even after it was released

All the Fables. WHERE'S MY GROWING TREES PETER!?

[Nyaore]

Indeed. And I would love if people would finally get over this whole "choices that matter and consequences"-mantra ... I never really understood this fetish. A story can be good even if you never make a choice (you know, like reading a book...), so its not necessary in any way for an RPG, and in the end all choices and consequences are only alternate ways to tell the story, and makes it a lot harder to keep everything coherent (look ME...hello you little Rachni, nice saving you and never care for you again !^^ Choice totally mattered!)

I used to be on that bandwagon, but ME3 pretty much killed that side of me for good. Now I just want the story to be good, and for some minor choices to be available when it comes to extended series. Self contained games that will never receive sequels? Bring on the choices! But with series that have no chance of ever being allowed to die? Yeah, no. I know now it's best to temper my expectations.

[Jukaga]

I used to be on that bandwagon, but ME3 pretty much killed that side of me for good. Now I just want the story to be good, and for some minor choices to be available when it comes to extended series. Self contained games that will never receive sequels? Bring on the choices! But with series that have no chance of ever being allowed to die? Yeah, no. I know now it's best to temper my expectations.

 

 

If all gamers lived by this wisdom they'd have more hair, less digestion problems and a fuller bank account.

[SwobyJ]

Indeed. And I would love if people would finally get over this whole "choices that matter and consequences"-mantra ... I never really understood this fetish. A story can be good even if you never make a choice (you know, like reading a book...), so its not necessary in any way for an RPG, and in the end all choices and consequences are only alternate ways to tell the story, and makes it a lot harder to keep everything coherent (look ME...hello you little Rachni, nice saving you and never care for you again !^^ Choice totally mattered!)

 

To me, 'choices that mattered' typically would mean... well, for the rachni example, I would have accepted all or most of what we got there, except that in the final battle, having the rachni would be reflected in some scenes (orbiting Earth and on the ground) and impact the invisible score of how the battle goes, while EMS (which would include the choice for rachni) could impact the ending scenes.

 

I didn't necessarily want everything to be reflected in the very last scenes, but I did want a greater continuity of choice consequences and for the ending to not be so blatantly reduced to red, blue, and green visualizations, with little lead-up and explanations (left mostly to a loredump at the last convo).

 

 

Rachni can always be discovered frozen or something, somewhere, for future non-Shepard games that could take place centuries in the future. But I wanted them to matter more in Shepard's story, and how he achieves victory or success. Same with Feros. I accepted sidequests barely mattering from ME1, but the main story decisions really should have done more (Colony, Rachni, Wrex, Virmire Death, Ascension/Alliance, Council) than what we saw in ME2-ME3, though the effort that Bioware did put in (mostly for Wrex, Virmire Death, and somewhat Ascension/Alliance and Council) was nice to see, just not what I would have ideally wanted to get..

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and for Rachni, I wouldn't have minded a more clearly shown benefit to rejecting them. Scenes of people's morale being shaken seeing rachni among them would have been cool, compared to the same scene showing a more confident fighting force without rachni. Tonal consequences are cool. (And a wrecked group of people if the rachni went crazy)

[realguile]

It's just best to pay no mind to pre-release hype. You'll always be disappointed.

Tell that to the witcher 3 ticks.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

The problem is not what was siad but how we each define it. Yes all of those things are true in as much as they happen at least once in the game if you make choices that lead to it happening, so it is possible for all of those things to happen.

 

It's a bit like me telling you I'll give you a free C note if you come to my house in a Dragon Age Costume. Yes, true but, you would expect $100.00 while I mean I will sing a C Note to you. Tecnically I didn't lie but, it sure wasn't whjat you expected either.

[Amorl]

Please remember that at the time that Bioware peeps talked about these features they were in the game.  I remember during the demo Bioware talking about how we could either save the inq fortress or the villiage it was supposed to be protecting during a red Templar attack.  I'm guessing that just turned straight up into haven due to time constraints/ bugs that couldn't be worked out in a reasonable time, or insert very valid reason here.

 

Why would they talk about it and show a demo if it wasn't guaranteed to make it in.

1.  They are excited about their work and wish to show it off and at the time it IS in the game.

2.  we demand it.  we flood them with requests for any and information they would be willing to share.  A screenshot of the wartable spawned so many threads on the BSN.  I remember reading articles on websites like kotaku (that I normally never visit) just to get the latest scraps.

 

The question as I see it is not how faithful were they to every little piece of prerelease information, but how well they were able to overcome all the hurdles of developing a game and deliver on the Promise of what a Dragon Age game is.  If they have to cut or take shortcuts I demand as a customer that it is seamless enough and done well enough that I don't notice and don't care.  I feel that they were more than able to do this.

[Tsunami Chef]

Indeed. And I would love if people would finally get over this whole "choices that matter and consequences"-mantra ... I never really understood this fetish. A story can be good even if you never make a choice (you know, like reading a book...), so its not necessary in any way for an RPG, and in the end all choices and consequences are only alternate ways to tell the story, and makes it a lot harder to keep everything coherent (look ME...hello you little Rachni, nice saving you and never care for you again !^^ Choice totally mattered!)

Exactly....not to mention that making choices TRULY matter (ala certain witcher 2 things, obviously not the whole thing for people who have played it entirely), you have to split resources that make the game significantly less "beefy". For every time they make a diverging choice they split resources, and in many cases stretch the sensibility of the story. I always played RPG's like biowares basically as games where you get to define your own character in a fairly predetermined story....of course it's not advertised like that, but COD also isn't advertised as a repetitive mindless shooter.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I didn't have any high expectations of DAI, I watched a bit of those demos/trailers when launch date was near but I wasn't excited because I already knew one cannot trust promo materials until the actual product is released. I was expecting DAI to be playable and not as terrible as ME3 since I was certain they have learned what not to do. I wasn't disappointed.

[Errationatus]

It's called the Mass Effect Effect. 

 

You tell a great big bunch of marketing lies with feckin' bells on 'em and then ladle out excuses afterward.  Then you call your fans 'toxic' and implement a policy of interacting only with the ones who offer no dissent.

 

It's a Bioware Thing™, kids, but it's catching on...

[d-boy15]

To be fair, their concept was seem too ambitious for their time constraints and budgets.

[davepissedatending]

in the DRAGON AGE™: INQUISITION
Gameplay Series -- E3 Demo
Part Two: Redcliffe Castle video embellished the choice and consequences system. can't link it since I'm using my phone

"We're the ones who sent Leliana in here, she was
tortured, and of course it will have a damaging impact on our relationship."
nope. she's forced and it doesn't.


"Who's present in your party affects the story...
having Dorian in our party and present gives us options we otherwise wouldn't have"
nope. he's forced as well.

slow clap. beautifully trolled. albeit it's not as bad as the me3 Thessia c&c video

well we do get a choice if you go with the mages this doesn't happen? Or am i missing something here?

[robertthebard]

well we do get a choice if you go with the mages this doesn't happen? Or am i missing something here?

You're not missing anything.

[hellbiter88]

The OP's statement is true. Most of it. I've noticed those exact same discrepencies, since I watched every single video leaked and presented a full year prior to DA:I's release. There was no timer to save the village, no boats to burn, no choice/consequence on main plot missions, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

That said, I suspect it had more to do with launch deadlines than it did with deliberate trolling. Bioware probably couldn't make it all fit together with the time they had winding down towards the end, so they blanketed the missions. Or perhaps not, I don't know.

 

In any event, the transparent choices of the game that have no true impact on story progression has been a major source of concern that I've seen mentioned in reviews by players and professionals.

[Augustei]

in the DRAGON AGE™: INQUISITION
Gameplay Series -- E3 Demo
Part Two: Redcliffe Castle video embellished the choice and consequences system. can't link it since I'm using my phone

"We're the ones who sent Leliana in here, she was
tortured, and of course it will have a damaging impact on our relationship."
nope. she's forced and it doesn't.


"Who's present in your party affects the story...
having Dorian in our party and present gives us options we otherwise wouldn't have"
nope. he's forced as well.

slow clap. beautifully trolled. albeit it's not as bad as the me3 Thessia c&c video

Can't top
"Rise to power"
and "Most important character in the dragon age universe to date"

Wait wait no, my favourite is the good old Mass Effect "Choices matter"

[SkyKing]

You all have been bent over by EA and Bioware and violated! And many of you are enjoying it and asking for more with your defense of them.  

 

Things change?  With the crestwood demo, showing how interactive the world was, invading ships, attacking them, picking fort or town, them even attacking later on after you had been there before, all the keeps having a purpose and your choice to upgrade for soldiers, spies, or merchants, etc.  Change might mean some differences but when they are all DELETED, and left with nothing but stupid generic fetch quests and forts that have no purpose anymore, it was all cut.  

 

Bioware/EA did not disclose all of that was cut either.  They had no problem showing all of those things that were never to be put in, and all the articles written about it, and taking preorders based on those things shown and advertised.  

 

THe reason 80% of the game is hollow generic fetch quests,  find a letter on dead body, "err I died, please dump this bucket of my feces by the old old tree on other side of zone so my house isn't dirty anymore", is because so much was cut out they dumped all these fetch quests so they didn't have to explain why such a big game with nothing to do inside.  

 

EA and bioware are now laughing all the way to the bank that you guys are singing their praises for how great it is when it's 80% crap, cut and paste generic quests.  They served you crap and you are treating it like a gourmet meal.  Some EA/Bioware exec is getting a big fat bonus because of his call on them cutting budget and shipping out a game that's only 20% complete with 80% filler content and getting praise for it as a great game and as much money as if they finished and made the game as it should have been.  

[Bekkael]

Yep, it's sad. This is the 1st BioWare game I have ever disliked, and it was really different to what they presented. Even with ME3, my main gripe was the vanilla ending and not the entire game. Not sure I will even pre-order another one of their games, and that's huge for me as I have been devoted to them since KOTOR/Jade Empire days.

[SkyKing]

Yep, it's sad. This is the 1st BioWare game I have ever disliked, and it was really different to what they presented. Even with ME3, my main gripe was the vanilla ending and not the entire game. Not sure I will even pre-order another one of their games, and that's huge for me as I have been devoted to them since KOTOR/Jade Empire days.

Yea same here.  I had been devoted since balders gate.  DA2 I was dissappointed but willing to forgive since they said they would make up for it with this game and go back to origins roots.  After those blatant lies, it went from disappointment to hate.  I'll never pre order again from them. 

[Beomer]

I don't know how is everyone so cool about all the stuff they cut that was shown in the promos and then later removed. When ME3's ending didn't live up to the promise, it made headlines. This case is not very different.
They showed us and told us that certain things were included. Then without specifying what didn't make it to the game they released the game and let everyone buy it, not bothering to clarify that a lot of stuff shown earlier hadn't been implemented. If this isn't false advertising, what is?
If I promise to sell a man a box full of apples tomorrow and take his money, then deliver only half a box and say that I'm sorry about the rest of the apples but I did not get the time to pick any more, I'm pretty certain he will ask for half his money back.
Sure showing a game feature in the promo does not mean the developer is bound to include that in the final game, but the least they could do is write a blog before release that 'Ok guys, these features we had shown have been cut. We're telling you because we're not thieves who are after your money, but honest game developers who love making games'.

[Eterna]

You use the word "trolled" but the correct word is "lied".