29 réponses à ce sujet

[Talvaris]

I'm just curious if there is anyway you can convience Bhelen if you side with him to not execute him. I know in some videos I've seen on youtube. That there is a dialogue option to let Harrowmont retire since he was a honorable rival and I'm curious if this would spare him or if Bhelen is just going to kill him regardless of what you say to him?

[Kiwiya]

You have to marry them before you spare Loghain.

...j/k. I'd like to know this too.

[amillian]

tried that Bhelen killed him anyway. You'll notice it is not a persuade

[blademaster7]

Congratulations. Bravo. Now where are my troops?



Hahaha, I always pick that line so I can't say what happens.

[Talvaris]

Yeah I know just figure he might since you help him out but also thought he would just kill Harrowmont since he views him as a threat to his throne now. Just wanted to check since I wouldn't want my character backing someone like that especially when they have given up and said they will serve you or at least abide the decision that was made. Thanks for letting me know for sure he would just execute Harrowmont makes my decision as my character easier to pick who I will go with.

[Creature 1]

The masses of casteless dwarves of Orzammar flip you the bird for your misguided decision.

[Creature 1]

Edit:  If it's worth saying once, it's worth saying at least twice. . .

Modifié par Creature 1, 26 janvier 2010 - 10:03 .

[metatheurgist]

Bhelen is too much of an ass for me to support. The masses of casteless should learn that there's a world outside of Orzammar.

[ejoslin]

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

[Monica21]

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

This.

I went with Harrowmont on my first playthrough and didn't like how it played out in the epilogue. Not sure if Bhelen has a better one, but he's not one to capitulate.

[RangerSG]

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

This.

I went with Harrowmont on my first playthrough and didn't like how it played out in the epilogue. Not sure if Bhelen has a better one, but he's not one to capitulate.

Oh I don't know that Harrowmont's failure necessitates a civil war. If you took him into exile on the surface, that would be the end of the issue, I think. Bhelen just only thinks of one way to solve problems, murder.

[Treason1]

RangerSG wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

This.

I went with Harrowmont on my first playthrough and didn't like how it played out in the epilogue. Not sure if Bhelen has a better one, but he's not one to capitulate.

Oh I don't know that Harrowmont's failure necessitates a civil war. If you took him into exile on the surface, that would be the end of the issue, I think. Bhelen just only thinks of one way to solve problems, murder.

Welcome to dwarven politics.

[RangerSG]

Treason1 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

This.

I went with Harrowmont on my first playthrough and didn't like how it played out in the epilogue. Not sure if Bhelen has a better one, but he's not one to capitulate.

Oh I don't know that Harrowmont's failure necessitates a civil war. If you took him into exile on the surface, that would be the end of the issue, I think. Bhelen just only thinks of one way to solve problems, murder.

Welcome to dwarven politics.

True, except that if you ask around, you find out that even the dwarves who back Bhelen despise how far he will go to win. Even by their Byzantine standards, he's a worm.

[Xetirox]

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

Civil war? Probably not, but among the nobility, there's always been a sort of "cold" civil war going on. Bhelen's most noteworthy trait before setting himself up as candidate for king was his staying out of it, and I'd say his actions right now have put him to the forefront, and he knows it. Best thing to do is make an example out of Harrowmont to show what lies in store for his future political enemies should they decide to try anything.

Ruthless? Yes. Cruel? Indeed. Unfair? You bet. Necessary? Perhaps. Orzammar's court is so decadent at this point, it needs an iron grip on the balls to get it back in line.

Modifié par Xetirox, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

If we accept that reasoning, then every execution in-game is a smart move. Executing Alistair or Loghian are both then smart moves.

[nmal015]

ejoslin wrote...

Bhelen always executes Harrowmont. Rightly so. If he didn't, there would be a good possibility of civil war.

Why would there be civil war? Harrowmount readily accepts bhelen as king. Anyway, you kill bhelen the other way round and there is still civil war anyway. Bhelen is just being a paranoid dictator, i couldnt disagree with you more.

[MishenNikara]

RangerSG wrote...

Oh I don't know that Harrowmont's failure necessitates a civil war. If you took him into exile on the surface, that would be the end of the issue, I think. Bhelen just only thinks of one way to solve problems, murder.

OH YES because at no point do Harrowmont's lackeys try to kill you.  Nope not one bit.  They NEVER ambush you in the streets at any point.  Harrowmont is just as much of a corrupt politician as Bhelen.

[Creature 1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If we accept that reasoning, then every execution in-game is a smart move. Executing Alistair or Loghian are both then smart moves.

Yes, they are smart moves.  It would also be smart to execute Anora, if Alistair didn't wimp out on it. 

[earl of the north]

I'm not sure the whole 'going to surface loses you your caste position' is that solid anyway...your character (DN) can reclaim your caste after living on the surface, the dwarf army that aids you on the surface isn't likely to lose theirs, the dwarf guards on the surface outside the gates of Ozammar, the statues outside Ozammar would seem to suggest that the ban on going to surface is flexible when the nobility want it to be.



Anyway I assume Bhelen kills Harrowmont mainly as a warning to the rest of the nobility not to screw with him, rather than because of any threat from Harrowmont.

[melkathi]

MishenNikara wrote...

OH YES because at no point do Harrowmont's lackeys try to kill you.  Nope not one bit.  They NEVER ambush you in the streets at any point.  Harrowmont is just as much of a corrupt politician as Bhelen.

While killing Bhelen stopped his fanatic supporters from attacking you?
The fanatic supporters on both sides attack regardless of wether the person they support is still alive. On the contrary, a living Harrowmont could have helped smooth things over.
Just ebcause we can rationalize a course of action doesn't mean Bhelen is any less a murdering dictator.

[Allattar1]

Dwarven politics huh! They always axe so many questions,

[Rathenau_]

It would seem to me that Bhelen is by far the more competent of the two. It´s an disgrace to reject the castles from fighting the darkspawn even though they can join the legion of the dead and there is no incentive there. As Machiavelli so adequately wrote, and I´m probably doing him injustice by interpreting his words in this way, a ruler should be immoral and govern the way that is most effective. Having your greatest contender executed is a very rational decision and by no means murder.



As someone who does not believe in democracy, I think a country can only be effectively run by one competent ruler. All hail king Bhelen!

[ReubenLiew]

Allattar1 wrote...

Dwarven politics huh! They always axe so many questions,

*boo* *hiss*

[Monica21]

melkathi wrote...

MishenNikara wrote...

OH YES because at no point do Harrowmont's lackeys try to kill you.  Nope not one bit.  They NEVER ambush you in the streets at any point.  Harrowmont is just as much of a corrupt politician as Bhelen.

While killing Bhelen stopped his fanatic supporters from attacking you?
The fanatic supporters on both sides attack regardless of wether the person they support is still alive. On the contrary, a living Harrowmont could have helped smooth things over.
Just ebcause we can rationalize a course of action doesn't mean Bhelen is any less a murdering dictator.

That's exactlly the point though. If supporters of either party aren't hesitent about attacking a Grey Warden in the street then they'll attack anyone. Bhelen's decision lets everyone know how he deals with people who oppose him and as such, he has a firmer grasp on the throne.

[eschilde]

Um. About Civil War. If you pick Bhelen there's a random encounter with some Harrowmont supporters on the world map later.. so, there's still resistance even though he's dead. (I've only gotten this when I yelled at Bhelen for executing him, though, not sure what the exact parameters are.) I also haven't picked Harrowmont for king for awhile, but I want to say you also get jumped by Bhelen supporters in a random encounter if you pick Harrowmont. In other words, Orzammar is a lose-lose situation in any case, it's just that one ending is slightly better than another..