79 réponses à ce sujet

[papercut_ninja]

I would guess that transgender people want to play interesting characters, just like everyone else...if a character is interesting and happens to be trans, they will play it...just like I would...

[Volcanthe]

See, therein lies a problem. There's more than just the binary when it comes to transgenderism and gender identity. I'm nonbinary, which means I don't identify as a man or woman. As I don't give a hoot what pronouns are used when referring to me, it's easy enough for me to RP as a nonbinary character in some games. Any time I'm shoehorned into having my female character wear overly feminine clothing, I ditch the character and roll a male. Thinking on it, I have actually rolled males for most of the games I've played over the past years. There's certainly less instances of sashaying about and even less instances of the dreaded DD chest bumps when rolling a male character.

 

Onto the question: I would love to play a trans character even if a nonbinary identity would be too difficult to implement. I play games to escape but I also play characters that I identify with on one level or another. For all the cries of pandering, knowing that a big company doesn't see how I feel as abnormal or unnatural is a good thing and by having an option where I could express some of those feelings in the role of a main character would be amazing. As it is, I'm okay with the level of inclusion in today's games. If a greater level of inclusion were on the table, I'd be delighted and thoroughly interested to see how it turns out. If it isn't, well I'm not going to cry about it, I'll just stick with the way I play already.

[Reguire]

Transgender option requires more voice acting so drains more money from the budget. So if you want this you have to sacrifice some other feature

[Mathias]

No we don't need this option. It's unnecessary funds they'd have to pour into, when they can use that budget for something more constructive. Just play the gender you feel you are on the inside. Krem added nothing to the game besides "Hey look! We're representing the trans community in Dragon Age."

I can't describe much about Krem's character besides she's a transgender and has a tough personality, compared to someone like Harding who's a much more interesting character.

[berelinde]

Transgender option requires more voice acting so drains more money from the budget. So if you want this you have to sacrifice some other feature

No, it does not require more voice acting, no more than it would take to voice any protagonist. All it requires is the ability to select a voice, which we already have. Trans people aren't some mutant species with unique vocal chords. They have the same vocal range as cis-gendered people.

[Giantdeathrobot]

If I can play as a race that doesn't exist or be a blood mage, I can't see how playing a trans character is out of line. After that, it's a question of ressources and RP: progressive as Thedas is on such matters, trans characters are still rare and the world would need to react accordingly in order to be convincing.

[Elsariel]

No, it does not require more voice acting, no more than it would take to voice any protagonist. All it requires is the ability to select a voice, which we already have. Trans people aren't some mutant species with unique vocal chords. They have the same vocal range as cis-gendered people.

Well, I think they would have to record some additional lines for a trans character. Unless it's ok to go through the whole game without any acknowledgement whatsoever.

[Qun00]

Of course it is. We're in a forum, discussing an RPG game that has mages, dragons, demons and elves. What did you expect to find, mate?

Fair enough.

I'd place that and deluding yourself into believing you're something trapped in whatever under the same category.

[ReiKokoFuuu]

i wouldn't mind an extra option such as an androgynous character (for those of us who identify as non-binary), but i think it's easy enough to create an androgynous looking character with the current CC.  i choose my characters' genders based on who i intend to romance.  if the LI is bi, then i go with whichever gender i feel like at the moment. 

 

i would think that transgender people would just prefer to play the gender they identify as.  in short, i don't think such an option is needed.

[DarkSun09]

Fair enough.

I'd place that and deluding yourself into believing you're something trapped in whatever under the same category.

Pfft. And you are an authority on the topic, are you? How can you just dismiss what other people feel and belittle their struggles like that? You can't know. You don't walk in their shoes. And apparently, that means you can't learn to empathize either. All this hostility and scorn simply because you can't wrap your head around the fact that people can never and will never fit into your neat little labels. How small and bland the world must look through your eyes. I almost pity you, but I don't think people like you deserve even that. Just go be judgy judge somewhere else, mate.  

[DarkSun09]

Transgender option requires more voice acting so drains more money from the budget. So if you want this you have to sacrifice some other feature

 

I don't see how additional voice acting is required to play as a trans character. Plus, I hear Bioware is playing around with the idea of letting players alter the pitch of their character's voice to allow for an even deeper level of customization. So if something like that is in the works, and implemented in future games, you can conceivably make a trans character (like Krem) and give him a deep feminine voice to accent that identity.  

 

No we don't need this option. It's unnecessary funds they'd have to pour into, when they can use that budget for something more constructive. Just play the gender you feel you are on the inside. Krem added nothing to the game besides "Hey look! We're representing the trans community in Dragon Age."

I can't describe much about Krem's character besides she's a transgender and has a tough personality, compared to someone like Harding who's a much more interesting character.

 

Not asking if we need this option. I'm wondering if people even want this option. So far, I've only heard cis people express that they are interested in playing a trans hero/heroine (for the sake of role-playing an interesting character if nothing else)... but many trans folks seem adverse to the idea because they would just rather play as the gender they are on the inside. Thus I'm scratching my head, wondering if all those cis folks even speak for the trans community when they expressed a desire for this added option.   

[TeraBat]

I'm a cislady, and I'd play for the experience of it, as long as it were well-done. It's not something I am demanding, but I am a lot more likely to purchase a game where this is even an option. Why? Because someone who has gone so far as to create a story for a trans* protag, especially a vg protag with all the player projection that entails, is someone who is not afraid to think outside the box and take risks. If they're defying convention enough to write a trans* protag, there are also probably a lot of other conventions being defied in the game, and I'd love to see what they made. 

 

One thing I will bring up, is that there is already a game where you can play as a trans* person, dys4ia by anna anthropy. It's pixel-based, so the graphics aren't anything fancy, but it's gotten some very good reviews. It's based on the creator's own experience of gender transition and focuses squarely on that aspect of being trans*. 

[Reguire]

Alright then. I don't want a trans option. If you wanna play as a trans just picture your character as a trans.

[SirGladiator]

I would assume that people that like to pretend to be the sex they aren't in real life, would also like to do that in a game as well.  However in the case of a game, they can accomplish that simply by choosing to play as the sex they want to play as.  Nothing complicated about it unless you just want it to be .

[TeraBat]

I actually think it would be very cool to play a genderfluid or nonbinary character. So many of our preconceptions and expectations are built up around gender, even among the most progressively-minded. It would be an incredibly interesting experience to play a character who had no self-concept of gender, and to whom other people related without having gender-based expectations. That's actually one of my biggest disappointments regarding Mass Effect - too many bipedal aliens with binary gender systems (yes, yes, asari, I know, but they're still conventionally feminine rather than being genderless). 

[Qun00]

Pfft. And you are an authority on the topic, are you? How can you just dismiss what other people feel and belittle their struggles like that? You can't know. You don't walk in their shoes. And apparently, that means you can't learn to empathize either. All this hostility and scorn simply because you can't wrap your head around the fact that people can never and will never fit into your neat little labels. How small and bland the world must look through your eyes. I almost pity you, but I don't think people like you deserve even that. Just go be judgy judge somewhere else, mate.

The problem is, society considers it a sin to disagree with the gay community on any subject.

Any concept created by them has to be taken as absolute truth.

Consider this: Why does one have to believe in everything they believe in?

The member Tera refers to those that do as progressive. But this isn't so much progress as it is being simply dragged into it for the sake of being politically correct.

It is fear, and nothing else.

But, unnecessary. You can be friends with a muslim without believing that Allah is the one true God.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

thats something that annoys me to.

yeah things could be better but stop treating us like freekin snowflakes.

 

I appoligise if i strawman here.

but i feel we all each play genders we feel sute our characters regardless of our own gender or sex. 

[DarkSun09]

The problem is, society considers it a sin to disagree with the gay community on any subject.

Any concept created by them has to be taken as absolute truth.

Consider this: Why does one have to believe in everything they believe in?

The member Tera refers to those that do as progressive. But this isn't so much progress as it is being simply dragged into it for the sake of being politically correct.

It is fear, and nothing else.

But, unnecessary. You can be friends with a muslim without believing that Allah is the one true God.

Society considers it a sin to be hateful and intolerant. Disagreeing with someone about some ideology or religious view is one thing, but if you make offensive remarks about another person's identity, then yeah, you're going to get called out for it. I think that's very fair. What I find most distasteful is when the privileged majority--the bullies of the world--start playing the victim because the people they pick on refuse take their abuse with more grace. You expect, what, to just be able go on some forum, say a bunch of racist, homophobic, or misogynistic crap... and people will just "respectfully disagree" with you? Or meekly turn the other cheek? Hah. Don't be ridiculous. 

 

Yes, you can be friends with a Muslim person without believing that Allah is the one true God. But that is a concept, an ideology, that you're disagreeing with. What you are saying when you declare that trans people are just "deluding" themselves into thinking they are trapped in the wrong body, is belittling their very identity. And that is neither a constructive criticism, nor a simple disagreement over ideas. That is an insult, and... it's just plain rude, man. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

They usually want to be either a guy or a girl.

Including the detail that character X used to be something else wouldn't make a whole lot of difference.

I can see the crazier types who want to identify as neither having trouble, but I don't see the need to feed everyone's fantasies for the sake of being politically correct.

 

This.

 

If you want to think your character was something else before, you can already do that.

 

Players who want a dick on their female character should play Skyrim and download some of its more...creepy mods for that.

[Arpokarpasz]

Next class in DA-universe: Trans-Gender - special abilities such as:"Crossdressing" and "Genderbender". Would be interesting to play as a transgendered char - have done it in p&p (not DA), if it's done well, it's fab.

[Qun00]

Society considers it a sin to be hateful and intolerant. Disagreeing with someone about some ideology or religious view is one thing, but if you make offensive remarks about another person's identity, then yeah, you're going to get called out for it. I think that's very fair. What I find most distasteful is when the privileged majority--the bullies of the world--start playing the victim because the people they pick on refuse take their abuse with more grace. You expect, what, to just be able go on some forum, say a bunch of racist, homophobic, or misogynistic crap... and people will just "respectfully disagree" with you? Or meekly turn the other cheek? Hah. Don't be ridiculous.

Yes, you can be friends with a Muslim person without believing that Allah is the one true God. But that is a concept, an ideology, that you're disagreeing with. What you are saying when you declare that trans people are just "deluding" themselves into thinking they are trapped in the wrong body, is belittling their very identity. And that is neither a constructive criticism, nor a simple disagreement over ideas. That is an insult, and... it's just plain rude, man.

Is this not an ideology? A man made belief?

Homosexuality has always been present in human history, but this nonsense about being neutral gendered or fluid is a recent concept from the last few decades.

Something some people decided to call a condition rather than an idea.

We could do with some more civility, I can give you that. But the subject itself is a different story.

The most anyone can ask of others is to be polite.

I wasn't, I know.

But point is, demanding that everyone should agree with their concept of gender is to force an ideology on people.

[DameMagpie]

The member Tera refers to those that do as progressive. But this isn't so much progress as it is being simply dragged into it for the sake of being politically correct.

 

 

 

Vilifying the good intents of people to foster simple kindness , yes, it's simple, and just a kindess. This in disrespect of others has become it's own movement. Suddenly political correctness infringes on the individualism of mean people. Dude it is not political. it is just a kindness. If you don't want your individualism infringed upon you wouldn't post. You just want to hurt people  

[DarkSun09]

Is this not an ideology? A man made belief?

Homosexuality has always been present in human history, but this nonsense about being neutral gendered or fluid is a recent concept from the last few decades.

Something some people decided to call a condition rather than an idea.

We could do with some more civility, I can give you that. But the subject itself is a different story.

And a few hundred years ago people didn't know there are such things as bacteria and germs. The more progress we make as a species, the more we learn about ourselves and the world around us. As much as we know now, we don't know all there is to know about gender identity and human sexuality. 

 

And honestly, I don't understand this thing about being "gender neutral" or "gender fluid" either... but because I don't know, I keep an open mind. I listen, and put genuine effort into better understanding. Sure, I have my confusion and my doubts, but that is why I don't make grand declarations about what is real and what is not. I may not understand people who are gender neutral, but I don't go around saying they are deluding themselves, either, as you have said of trans people. 

[Qun00]

And a few hundred years ago people didn't know there are such things as bacteria and germs. The more progress we make as a species, the more we learn about ourselves and the world around us. As much as we know now, we don't know all there is to know about gender identity and human sexuality.

And honestly, I don't understand this thing about being "gender neutral" or "gender fluid" either... but because I don't know, I keep an open mind. I listen, and put genuine effort into better understanding. Sure, I have my confusion and my doubts, but that is why I don't make grand declarations about what is real and what is not. I may not understand people who are gender neutral, but I don't go around saying they are deluding themselves, either, as you have said of trans people.

As oppressed as gay people have been, they always knew what they were.

But only now, after thousands of years does this group decide they're non-gendered or what you'll have it?

It's commendable that your approach is to wait and listen, but that loses meaning if the only acceptable outcome is to nod your head.

What makes this not as black and white as it may seem is that part of it does have to do with a disagreement of ideas.

They believe gender is malleable. I don't.
So, what happens then? Do I have to agree with their concept?

That isn't an easy question to answer. That is, to find the middle ground. A true middle ground.

[DarkSun09]

As oppressed as gay people have been, they always knew what they were.

But only now, after thousands of years does this group decide they're non-gendered or what you'll have it?

It's commendable that your approach is to wait and listen, but that loses meaning if the only acceptable outcome is to nod your head.

What makes this not as black and white as it may seem is that part of it does have to do with a disagreement of ideas.

They believe gender is malleable. I don't.
So, what happens then? Do I have to agree with their concept?

That isn't an easy question to answer. That is, to find the middle ground. A true middle ground.

That's fine, man. Then just say you don't believe it and leave it at that. I can respect that. It's only when you start deriding people who claim such an identity for themselves that we have problems, because, really, you've no right to do that.

 

My own response to the whole gender fluidity thing is to say I don't understand it enough to agree or disagree. "I don't know" is a perfectly reasonable answer, you know. Too many people in this world like to attach absolutes to things they know nothing about.