51 réponses à ce sujet

[Godeskian]

So during my entire run I made a point of always suggesting that people should be forgiven, my character is so paragon her teeth should make a bling noise every time she smiles.

In fact, when Leliana was beating herself up over her sentries, i told her to value their lives more and to see them as people, not disposable pawns.

And yet when I did her personal quest, when I picked the 'don't kill' option, she refused and slit Natalie's throat anyway, and then yelled at me when I suggested that she didn't owe the divine anything anymore.

The fact that she said 'now, after all you've done you'd ask me to let go', back at Skyhold she then reads me the riot act about how she's a ruthless person and that's all she will ever be.

And I'm baffled. Did I miss a conversation flag somewhere? Did I execute someone I shouldn't have? I always thought I'd played a pretty damn friendly character and Leliana has always seemed pretty friendly to me, but here it's like she's been hardened ala DA O

Any thoughts, because this isn't the Leliana I've seen for most of the game.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well it is bad mechanic if you skip early conversation about her killing another spy or just won't do anything she will ignore you and kill her.

[Colonelkillabee]

She's stupid. I don't wonder why stupid people are stupid and do stupid things.

[Godeskian]

Well it is bad mechanic if you skip early conversation about her killing another spy or just won't do anything she will ignore you and kill her.

 

Wait, what conversation about her killing another spy?

[Godeskian]

She's stupid. I don't wonder why stupid people are stupid and do stupid things.

 

Uhm, okay. She's one of my favorite characters and I've invested a lot of time across two games making sure she remembers that she's a decent person.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Uhm, okay. She's one of my favorite characters and I've invested a lot of time across two games making sure she remembers that she's a decent person.

Did you skip or tell her to kill the spy in Haven. If you don't do that conversation and tell her to spare him, she's hardened. Also, don't listen to bee, he's just a Leliana hater.

[GT409]

Wait, what conversation about her killing another spy?

It's at the beginning of the game, right after you are allowed to wander around Haven freely. A scout will tell Leliana the Inquisition has a traitor. You can say, "kill him", "don't kill him", or don't get involved (she has him killed).

You have to say "don't kill him" if you want her to spare Natalie during her quest.

[MissDragon]

You should speak to Leliana  as soon as you get to Haven. After speaking to her, back away but stop and watch. Someone will approach her....wait till they start talking then click on Leliana.

 

During that next bit of dialogue you have the option to stop her from killing the person she wants killed. 

[Steelcan]

Uhm, okay. She's one of my favorite characters and I've invested a lot of time across two games making sure she remembers that she's a decent person.

she keeps trying to tell you that she really isn't one though

 

from Marjoline, to left hand of the Divine, to slaughtering the opponents of the Inquisition, she is not rainbows and kittens

[Colonelkillabee]

Uhm, okay. She's one of my favorite characters and I've invested a lot of time across two games making sure she remembers that she's a decent person.

Your bad, then, lol. That last assumption was your first mistake.

[Godeskian]

Did you skip or tell her to kill the spy in Haven. If you don't do that conversation and tell her to spare him, she's hardened. Also, don't listen to bee, he's just a Leliana hater.

 

 

It's at the beginning of the game, right after you are allowed to wander around Haven freely. A scout will tell Leliana the Inquisition has a traitor. You can say, "kill him", "don't kill him", or don't get involved (she has him killed).

You have to say "don't kill him" if you want her to spare Natalie during her quest.

 

 

You should speak to Leliana  as soon as you get to Haven. After speaking to her, back away but stop and watch. Someone will approach her....wait till they start talking then click on Leliana.

 

During that next bit of dialogue you have the option to stop her from killing the person she wants killed. 

 

Thank you all.

 

In my case I only returned to Haven twice before moving to Skyhold, the first time she was praying and angry about the Maker letting Justinia die, and the second time was the generic conversation wheel. Somewhere I must have missed a trick.

 

I shall attempt on my next playthrough, to make Leliana the woman I remember her being.

 

Many thanks to you all.

 

Of course now I'm thinking I should probably have supported Cassandra for the Divine. This is going to be fun.

[Mushashi7]

You are sure that you softened her in Haven, and interupted the conversation (between her and the agent in the tent) telling her not to kill the traitor agent?

This point is very important for her behavior onwards.

[LobselVith8]

Wait, what conversation about her killing another spy?

In Haven, one of her agents runs up to her and tells her about a traitor; if you let her kill the traitor, it hardens her personality.

[Godeskian]

Your bad, then, lol. That last assumption was your first mistake.

 

 

she keeps trying to tell you that she really isn't one though

 

from Marjoline, to left hand of the Divine, to slaughtering the opponents of the Inquisition, she is not rainbows and kittens

 

If she's not a decent person because she kills people, then neither is my Warden, neither is my Hawke, or my inquisitor, or any companion I've had over these three games. She'll have to do more than kill people and be a spy to convince me she can't be a decent person.

 

Still, I appreciate your perspectives.

[Godeskian]

You are sure that you softened her in Haven, and interupted the conversation (between her and the agent in the tent) telling her not to kill the traitor agent?

This point is very important for her behavior onwards.

 

 

In Haven, one of her agents runs up to her and tells her about a traitor; if you let her kill the traitor, it hardens her personality.

 

 

Missed that conversation entirely. Which of course explains what happened. Thank you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well i prefer her softer as well for single reason cus at least that stupid ass listen to superior orders otherwise her writers pet status gives her plot armor so i can't do nothing about it.

[Steelcan]

If she's not a decent person because she kills people, then neither is my Warden, neither is my Hawke, or my inquisitor, or any companion I've had over these three games. She'll have to do more than kill people and be a spy to convince me she can't be a decent person.

 

Still, I appreciate your perspectives.

the difference is that the Warden and Hawke tend to be killing people because they are either

 

A. Trying to kill them

B. Trying to kill others

C. Evil

 

Leliana as a spymaster was dealing with what people might do or what they think.  I know that she suggests kidnapping children in DA:I to keep opponents in line.

[wright1978]

Personally I adore hardened Leliana.

[Colonelkillabee]

If she's not a decent person because she kills people, then neither is my Warden, neither is my Hawke, or my inquisitor, or any companion I've had over these three games. She'll have to do more than kill people and be a spy to convince me she can't be a decent person.

 

Still, I appreciate your perspectives.

I think she's not decent because she sells her dreams as visions for self worth when she had none and I think she's just an attention hog, something like Vivienne. Never liked her ever since that moment. Not to mention she was rather pathetic around Marjolaine. I get you and others like her. I don't. *shrug*

 

And I get that you'll likely interpret her dream thing differently. That's how I see it.

[Hazegurl]

she keeps trying to tell you that she really isn't one though

 

from Marjoline, to left hand of the Divine, to slaughtering the opponents of the Inquisition, she is not rainbows and kittens

Basically, which is why I don't buy the Diplomatic Divine Leliana ending. I don't think she'll ever remain that way. In DAO you have to keep reminding her that she's a good person, and now in DAI?? Honestly, get the message already. Leliana enjoys killing people and that's never going to change. The Quizzy can't watch over her and remind her of her goodness forever.

[Godeskian]

Well i prefer her softer as well for single reason cus at least that stupid ass listen to superior orders otherwise her writers pet status gives her plot armor so i can't do nothing about it.

 

Hah, fair enough. I actually don't mind her ignoring my  orders, my Inquisitor is a very forgiving type, I mind what it did to her mindset though.

 

 

the difference is that the Warden and Hawke tend to be killing people because they are either

 

A. Trying to kill them

B. Trying to kill others

C. Evil

 

Leliana as a spymaster was dealing with what people might do or what they think.  I know that she suggests kidnapping children in DA:I to keep opponents in line.

 

Ah, but she only does that if you do let her harden. In fact that conversation happens immediately afterwards. If you remind her to be more human, and less like a game of thrones character, I have my doubts she'd still order said kidnapping.

 

And the truth is that both the warden and Hawke can make a lot of questionable, if not borderline sadistic decisions. Mine didn't, and I don't like my partymembers making them, certainly not because I missed one conversation fifty hours ago.

 

 

Personally I adore hardened Leliana.

 

Fair enough. I can't get over the the dissonance of 'let's kidnap a cleric's nephew for leverage' in one sentence, and the next she's speculating on whether her friend the Warden is okay. It's just weird to watch her bounce back and forward between attitudes.

 

I think she's not decent because she sells her dreams as visions for self worth when she had none and I think she's just an attention hog, something like Vivienne. Never liked her ever since that moment. Not to mention she was rather pathetic around Marjolaine. I get you and others like her. I don't. *shrug*

 

And I get that you'll likely interpret her dream thing differently. That's how I see it.

 

To each their own. It's an RPG, with many paths and interpretations. Yours is no less valid than mine.

[Godeskian]

Basically, which is why I don't buy the Diplomatic Divine Leliana ending. I don't think she'll ever remain that way. In DAO you have to keep reminding her that she's a good person, and now in DAI?? Honestly, get the message already. Leliana enjoys killing people and that's never going to change. The Quizzy can't watch over her and remind her of her goodness forever.

 

Ah, but is she that way because she is naturally that way, or because she happens to be good at it and everyone wants her to do it because of that.

 

One interesting thing about the hardened route is that there is a conversation where she pretty much says that everyone has always used her for her killing talents. Presumably if she becomes Divine, there's no longer anyone who can tell her what she should be doing.

 

I do love these sorts of debates.

[Colonelkillabee]

I do love these sorts of debates.

Thanks for not overreacting Sometimes people take dislike of characters waaay too seriously.

[Hazegurl]

Ah, but is she that way because she is naturally that way, or because she happens to be good at it and everyone wants her to do it because of that.

 

One interesting thing about the hardened route is that there is a conversation where she pretty much says that everyone has always used her for her killing talents. Presumably if she becomes Divine, there's no longer anyone who can tell her what she should be doing.

 

I do love these sorts of debates.

No, a hardened Leliana will tell you flat out that she held herself back. She took the job of the Left Hand because she wanted it and the Divine's regrets were pointless and actually allowed her to let go of her own. No one made her a killer but herself.

 

She's not being steered towards any course she doesn't already wish to be on, except the course of "goodness" that the Warden and then the Quizzy try to push her to if they choose to.  DAO and DAI is like what? Over a decade? And she's still killing people, spying, and doing dirty work for people she could have just said no to. She's didn't learn anything from your Warden in DAO because that's not the person she wants to be. Hence why your Quizzy needs to go out of his/her way to tell her not to kill people.  That choice was one she was going to make on her own without you. So yeah, good luck babysitting her when she sits on the Sunburst Throne.  lol!

[Godeskian]

Thanks for not overreacting Sometimes people take dislike of characters waaay too seriously.

 

I just can't get too worked up about differing interpretations of a fictional character. Who'se to say if my interpretation is better than anyone elses. 

 

In my games, I'm big on second chances, or as many as people need.