44 réponses à ce sujet

[Raze48]

Currently level 16, full KE with Winter's Grasp and Upgraded Barrier from Spirit tree... REALLY not seeing the "OPness" of KE. In fact it takes about 2 hits to knock out my Barrier and my damage on normal mobs is like 200-300 per hit which is just sad. I do so little damage I can't keep a single Barrier up based on damage unless I get to cut through a Guard or Barrier, and if more than one mob turns on me my Barrier gets chewed and I'm dead... Really not getting it. Or did Bioware stealthily nerf a SP game class for the sake of MP "buy our micro crap" balance?

 

Currently using a 97 DPS Tempest Staff, and wearing some normal crafted Battlemage Armor... Starting to wish I would have stuck to my DW or Archer toon I usually go with...

[Rynas]

1. Get close to mobs.

2. Hit upgraded Fade Cloak.  Boom-boom fills up your barrier.

3. Spirit Blade whenever Fade Cloak is down to recharge it (with Clean Burn).

4. Repeat until everything is dead.

 

Anything else is just gravy...

 

[Edit] Shameless self-promotion here.

[Raze48]

Fade Cloak is hitting for about 600-700 normally which is NOT even close enough to fill a Barrier bar, and if it does it's still being burned in a blink of an eye.

[stop_him]

Based on my limited experience with KE, I don't think you really need Winter's Grasp. The Fire Tree is much better. You want to max damage--that's the fire tree. I got flashpoint, clean burn, chaotic focus, and 2x fire mine. For the spirit tree, I just went with regular barrier early on. I never did max out the KE tree--that last spell isn't all that great anyway. 

 

After that, try to make a rogue armor with snoufleur (sp?) material to get cunning or critical hit increase + attack% increase and critical hit bonus increase. Every swing of my sword hit for at least in the 1,000 damage range, and fire mine was in the 10,000 damage range. I hope to get a superb sturdy prowler coat/armor schematic some time.

[Rynas]

Fade Cloak is hitting for about 600-700 normally which is NOT even close enough to fill a Barrier bar, and if it does it's still being burned in a blink of an eye.

 

600 should be the bare minimum possible with a 97 DPS staff.  Do you have any other offensive stats?  Crit, attack, crit damage, etc.?

 

It hits much harder than SB, and you take 0 damage to barrier while it's active.  It also saves you damage by knocking stuff down.  If you hit multiple enemies with it regularly, you should be able to keep barrier up.  Big damage + damage immunity + knockdown makes it one of the most powerful abilities in the game, and it has a short cooldown.  Until you get better gear, it's the best main spell for KEs.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

 What rynas said, abuse the hell out of fade cloak. also, farm obsidian and silverite  for their respective guard generation mastercrafts, 8 guard generation per hit to fall back on in case your barrier does die for whatever reason. It's an extra layer of protection if you feel you need it.

[Rynas]

Heal 15-25% of damage taken over 10 seconds can also be pretty powerful.  Fade-Touched Iron, Paragon's Luster, Dawnstone, or Everite.

[DorianBR]

With the passive in fire tree that reduces cooldown every time you cast a spell, you can cast Fade Cloak again a couple seconds after it ends, if you're spamming your sword attack. Enemies will never have enough time to eat through your barrier

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Inferno is better and yes it's OP when I can pop barrier and fade cloak then go two hit anything up to 2 levels above me and, maintain my barrier. No one hit does not fully recharge it but, with KE, it's plenty to keep it going, I never loose all of it UNLESS I cast one of my inferno spells that burns off 50% of my barrier to boost spell power. And with inferno, if you get a crit, then cooldown is gone with the next swing so, all enemies can do is hack at your barrier, which you can up faster than they can remove and, in no time they are dead anyway. Usually only need to pop barrier once per enemy unless it's a boss or dragon, then you need to pop it a bit more.

 

KE has no effect on the ranged spells, only way to see it's power is in melee combat - a KE is a melee mage and, if you get silverite so you can wear heavy armor, since most mobs prefer to attack Quizzy, you are nearly a tank and, can certainly fight right beside your warrior and, come out of it with  more health left than the warrior.

[JaegerBane]

Currently level 16, full KE with Winter's Grasp and Upgraded Barrier from Spirit tree... REALLY not seeing the "OPness" of KE. In fact it takes about 2 hits to knock out my Barrier and my damage on normal mobs is like 200-300 per hit which is just sad. I do so little damage I can't keep a single Barrier up based on damage unless I get to cut through a Guard or Barrier, and if more than one mob turns on me my Barrier gets chewed and I'm dead... Really not getting it. Or did Bioware stealthily nerf a SP game class for the sake of MP "buy our micro crap" balance?
 
Currently using a 97 DPS Tempest Staff, and wearing some normal crafted Battlemage Armor... Starting to wish I would have stuck to my DW or Archer toon I usually go with...

The first thing to remember is that lot of people who were whining about how OP the spec was, frankly, were jumping on the bandwagon. Played perfectly it does have a never-ending barrier, but to hear some of these people talk, you'd think it was basically God mode with no effort - it isn't. Many of them were talking crap. As well as this, I believe bioware nerfed barrier strength in general (why they did this is anyone's guess, but hey ho)

The main trick with the KE is that you have to be causing sufficient damage to stay afloat - that means putting some thought into how you Attack. Spamming spirit blade will never fill your shield bar, but Lightning Cage + Energy Barrage certainly will, and with that full barrier you can drop an immolate or a fire mine to rack up the damage and replace the barrier you spent. Its a question of getting into the cyclic mindset where everything you do is causing another link in the chain to trigger.

It's a much more interesting class than it was given credit for.

[sergel02]

I heard of more defensive builds using the ice tree (like that ice armor). 

 

The nice thing with KE is that you got some variety with how you build. You don't even need to take Fade Shield, but I think it helps you out now. I did find that there is risk in not taking it, as you do get hurt a bit, which is why frost step can be nice to get out of melee if you need it. 

 

You want to do a lot of damage if you take fade shield, and like the others said, fire is a great way of doing that. Some like the Distortion Field and Fire mine combo, since getting things to actually walk over the fire mine can be a pain sometimes.

[Xhaiden]

KE's opness comes from a combination of certain passives. Specifically the fire tree. Which lets you stay practically immune to damage most of the time by reducing the cooldown on Fade Cloak. Combined with Fire Mine you can refill your barrier to full easily enough. By itself, KE isn't quite as op but it has a pretty low skill ceiling to be effective which is why it gets a lot of flak. You can just hold down spirit blade ftw 99% of the time.

[Rynas]

You can just hold down spirit blade ftw 99% of the time.

 

Not on Nightmare with a 97 DPS staff.

[samb]

I have to agree.  While KE can become invincible it doesn't really kill stuff very fast.  Spectral sword only does like 700-900 damge while my rogue can deal 2400-2600 with each hit of hidden blades.  I might be called steamroll, but it is about as slow as well.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

The first thing to remember is that lot of people who were whining about how OP the spec was, frankly, were jumping on the bandwagon. Played perfectly it does have a never-ending barrier, but to hear some of these people talk, you'd think it was basically God mode with no effort - it isn't. Many of them were talking crap. As well as this, I believe bioware nerfed barrier strength in general (why they did this is anyone's guess, but hey ho)

The main trick with the KE is that you have to be causing sufficient damage to stay afloat - that means putting some thought into how you Attack. Spamming spirit blade will never fill your shield bar, but Lightning Cage + Energy Barrage certainly will, and with that full barrier you can drop an immolate or a fire mine to rack up the damage and replace the barrier you spent. Its a question of getting into the cyclic mindset where everything you do is causing another link in the chain to trigger.

It's a much more interesting class than it was given credit for.

Indeed, I am glad someone else sees this as well. I get so tired of people just saying, spam spirit blade, this class is all about just spamming spirit blade. It's just repeated rhetoric from people who do not know how to play the class. The blade by itself does not do enough damage to sustain the barrier, you have to weave in other abilities to keep things going, I mix in fire mine, fade cloak or static cage etc for flavor. The class can be as dynamic as you want it to be if people would stop repeating preprogrammed nonsense.

[Xhaiden]

Indeed, I am glad someone else sees this as well. I get so tired of people just saying, spam spirit blade, this class is all about just spamming spirit blade. It's just repeated rhetoric from people who do not know how to play the class. The blade by itself does not do enough damage to sustain the barrier, you have to weave in other abilities to keep things going, I mix in fire mine, fade cloak or static cage etc for flavor. The class can be as dynamic as you want it to be if people would stop repeating preprogrammed nonsense.

 

Dynamic as you want it to be is the exact problem though. Its dynamic as you want it to be not dynamic as it needs to be. Which is honestly my problem with it. The class is effective with 1-2 buttons and Spirit Blade, while not the highest damaging ability, deals the best damage type, deflects projectiles and annihilates barrier/guard. When you combine this with damage to generate barrier you need to be constantly dishing it out to maintain defenses and Spirit Blade negates one of the single most dangerous types of attacks for a mage ( Especially on nightmare ): Projectiles. So you also need to keep swinging to maintain ranged defense.

 

By combining everything into one spell which is essentially just an auto attack along side a damage = defence mechanic they inadvertantly encouraged spamming it. KE would have been better served by having Fade Step be an active blcking ability like shield blocking which could deflect projectiles. That drained mana to absorb hits. So KE wasn't relient on constantly dealing damage to generate barrier and the playstyle had more dynamic / depth to it.

 

Same with Disruption Field. That should have been a second melee strike ability for more variety. There's plenty of CC to go around in the other mage trees.

[draken-heart]

basically, if the KE is built right, it can dish out hundreds of damage, while being able to do the tank's job.

[Duelist]

I haven't played Knight Enchanter and probably won't (nothing against it, mages in general don't interest me) but I'm curious: does FF change things at all for KE?

[1G86]

If FF is Similar to DAO and DA2 it might be very painful to your Warriors. Imagine eating away at the Guard of your Tank if both of you are fighting in Melee when you swing SB. Or stepping into a Fire Mine fueled by Chaotic Focus. Never entertained the thought of enabling FF. From what I understand it's one-sided. If enemies could kill their mates by accident, it might be something interesting.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

after i got the spec after skyhold ive been soloing the game with a  number of staves and armors 

with spirit blade

clarity

and fade sheild 

on nightmare

 

for most builds to solo you need anywhere from 15 - 22 points

KE? 3 

 

that's why it's OP

it's boring and you gotta outsmart the AI 

 

i'm 90 hours in with so much kiting but ive killed the abyssal high dragon with nothing but auto attack and spirit blade 

[Nen_Rx]

Currently level 16, full KE with Winter's Grasp and Upgraded Barrier from Spirit tree... REALLY not seeing the "OPness" of KE. In fact it takes about 2 hits to knock out my Barrier and my damage on normal mobs is like 200-300 per hit which is just sad. I do so little damage I can't keep a single Barrier up based on damage unless I get to cut through a Guard or Barrier, and if more than one mob turns on me my Barrier gets chewed and I'm dead... Really not getting it. Or did Bioware stealthily nerf a SP game class for the sake of MP "buy our micro crap" balance?

 

Currently using a 97 DPS Tempest Staff, and wearing some normal crafted Battlemage Armor... Starting to wish I would have stuck to my DW or Archer toon I usually go with...

Your staff is too weak. Your barrier fill (which makes it OP utilizing Fade Shield) is based on a percentage dealt by your damage output based on your staff DPS. My Seer Staff is a 207 DPS. I have pumped a ton of crit chance and damage to where I am hitting more crits than not with spirit blade at 1.2K to 1.5K a swing and getting 4K decloaking.

 

That is how you make it OP. Go craft a real staff and pump up the Crit Chance/Damage on armor and staff. You'll never lose barrier by doing the cloak, melee, decloak, melee, rinse/repeat technique.

[draken-heart]

Your staff is too weak. Your barrier fill (which makes it OP utilizing Fade Shield) is based on a percentage dealt by your damage output based on your staff DPS. My Seer Staff is a 207 DPS. I have pumped a ton of crit chance and damage to where I am hitting more crits than not with spirit blade at 1.2K to 1.5K a swing and getting 4K decloaking.
 
That is how you make it OP. Go craft a real staff and pump up the Crit Chance/Damage on armor and staff. You'll never lose barrier by doing the cloak, melee, decloak, melee, rinse/repeat technique.

You cannot put Crit chance on armor, except through Cunning.

[Nic Mercy]

You cannot put Crit chance on armor, except through Cunning.

 

While you're technically correct that you can't add straight up crit % Cunning is the next best thing and basically IS adding crit %. Creating medium armor with snoufleur leather so any class can use it and then then of course socketing it with prowler armor arms with cunning and hunter coat legs with cunning can create a set of armor that provides a significant amount of crit % from armor alone. With that said, as a mage, if you can acquire the schematic for the Seer Staff, you shouldn't need to resort to this. The medium armor route is worthwhile when trying to build up your crit % early on however and can serve for a large portion of the game until the Seer schematic is acquired.

 

At its best you could use the Sturdy Prowler Armor schematic as the base and the above mentioned addons and get a maximum potential of 41 cunning (if you use 10% more stats masterwork... otherwise max is 39 I believe) on that armor... thats 20.5% crit chance (or 19.5% without 10% masterwork)) which is nothing to sneer at.

 

Using the above armor WITH a tricked out Seer staff (167 dps with a superior spirit rune cause anything that gives you 207 dps is giving you a fake dps number that only applies against specific targets, and 6% attack, 38% crit chance and 53% crit damage bonus) gives you a grand total of 68% crit and 94% crit damage (add in two 20% crit damage rings to make things ever more ridiculous) which will generate some hefty barrier as a KE. You probably don't NEED that high a crit rate though and could probably swap out some of it for more crit damage to make the crits even bigger. If you want to be even more insane... use a fade-touched silverite on the armor instead of the 10% (I used a 10% on the staff in this example however). You'll be generating tons of barrier and guard and probably never take damage again.

 

As a side benefit the armor actually looks decent and isn't some wacky clown color combo either

[draken-heart]

While you're technically correct that you can't add straight up crit % Cunning is the next best thing and basically IS adding crit %. Creating medium armor with snoufleur leather so any class can use it and then then of course socketing it with prowler armor arms with cunning and hunter coat legs with cunning can create a set of armor that provides a significant amount of crit % from armor alone. With that said, as a mage, if you can acquire the schematic for the Seer Staff, you shouldn't need to resort to this. The medium armor route is worthwhile when trying to build up your crit % early on however and can serve for a large portion of the game until the Seer schematic is acquired.
 
At its best you could use the Sturdy Prowler Armor schematic as the base and the above mentioned addons and get a maximum potential of 41 cunning (if you use 10% more stats masterwork... otherwise max is 39 I believe) on that armor... thats 20.5% crit chance (or 19.5% without 10% masterwork)) which is nothing to sneer at.
 
Using the above armor WITH a tricked out Seer staff (167 dps with a superior spirit rune cause anything that gives you 207 dps is giving you a fake dps number that only applies against specific targets, and 6% attack, 38% crit chance and 53% crit damage bonus) gives you a grand total of 68% crit and 94% crit damage (add in two 20% crit damage rings to make things ever more ridiculous) which will generate some hefty barrier as a KE. You probably don't NEED that high a crit rate though and could probably swap out some of it for more crit damage to make the crits even bigger. If you want to be even more insane... use a fade-touched silverite on the armor instead of the 10% (I used a 10% on the staff in this example however). You'll be generating tons of barrier and guard and probably never take damage again.
 
As a side benefit the armor actually looks decent and isn't some wacky clown color combo either

You may not have noticed where I ALREADY put the cunning thing in my post. No need to explain it to me.

[JaegerBane]

Dynamic as you want it to be is the exact problem though. Its dynamic as you want it to be not dynamic as it needs to be. Which is honestly my problem with it. The class is effective with 1-2 buttons and Spirit Blade, while not the highest damaging ability, deals the best damage type, deflects projectiles and annihilates barrier/guard. When you combine this with damage to generate barrier you need to be constantly dishing it out to maintain defenses and Spirit Blade negates one of the single most dangerous types of attacks for a mage ( Especially on nightmare ): Projectiles. So you also need to keep swinging to maintain ranged defense.

By combining everything into one spell which is essentially just an auto attack along side a damage = defence mechanic they inadvertantly encouraged spamming it. KE would have been better served by having Fade Step be an active blcking ability like shield blocking which could deflect projectiles. That drained mana to absorb hits. So KE wasn't relient on constantly dealing damage to generate barrier and the playstyle had more dynamic / depth to it.

Same with Disruption Field. That should have been a second melee strike ability for more variety. There's plenty of CC to go around in the other mage trees.

Yes and no. Spirit blade was always going to be the central focus of the class, so it's not surprising it's both a defensive and offensive lynchpin. Did they overdo the focus? Perhaps, but there's a big difference between that and claiming the class just spams it without thinking. You cannot simply click spirit blade forever and have the game just play itself. It needs a very specific build - including spells from other schools - to get into a state where it can reliably rotate through spirit blade/fade cloak and maintain its barrier. Once you get to the stage where you're building a character with the express intention of synergy and power, you can't then start complaining about power. I suspect the main issue with KE is that it's a spec for a class that has to retreat everytime it takes a hit, and for whatever reason, the most vocal can't handle the idea of that switch. I didn't hear anyone screaming their heads off about how OP shield wall is when you can position it in such a way to take 1 damage per tick against a dragon, or tempests using their insane flasks of lightning/focus to slay dragons in minutes.

As for Disruption Field... Tbh, it's both an underrated spell and an oddball. It's as much a shield as it is crowd control and tends to reward experimentation over mindless spamming, which makes sense given the same people who whine about spirit blade spamming are also the ones whining about how useless Disruption Field is.

And speaking of crowd control... I'd have to disagree that there was plenty to go around. Outside of the Specs, crowd control spells in this game are generally poor deals. Static Cage gains it's popularity from its upgrade (which changes its function), Winter's Grasp is considered little more than an early game choice and flashfire is a joke. The reason all the specialisations have their own CC methods is because they can't rely on the standard schools.