102 réponses à ce sujet

[TheThirdRace]

For the deniers, I've seen Drasca play that build and it works wonderfully. It's a case of "try it before dismissing it". No need to go on with a long debate on which build is the perfect optimal one, it works, it's all that matters...

[Drasca]

If you are standing still then you are just not playing a necromancers to her full potential.

 

Hahaha, I say that about the fade stepping blizzard casters. I don't stand still all the time, just when positioning mobs to their doom, exploding at my feet in an explosively frozen hell.

 

If you need to frost step, that means you need to buy time and you're not doing enough damage, or cannot prevent enough damage. Ice mine virulence means mana efficiency vice blizzard (which doesn't even freeze until most of the mana bar is gone), and more walking bombs / fade cloaks is the damage prevention / damage dealing that fade steppers never have.

 

By the time a blizzard / fade stepper is developed and fighting, I've already killed everything three times over.

[Drasca]

Elementalist is a 'stand still and cast' class and benefits from ice mine a lot more than the Necro.

 

If only elementalist had virulence, I would take ice mine + armor every time. Sadly it does not, which opens up opportunities for the Necromancer to shine.

 

Blizzard is trash. It takes forever to freeze, it costs excessive mana due to preventing mana regen, and the chill effect doesn't slow down enemies nearly enough.

 

Virulence freeze primes an entire room for AoE detonation.

 

If you're frost stepping, your enemies are spread out and you are not achieving critical mass for damage.

 

If you have static cage or pull of the abyss from allies, you are not frost stepping, you are casting damage spells and staffing... and this is where winter's stillness / gathering storm comes in.

[chich]

See above. Winter's stillness. They don't have the same cooldown due to the fact that winter's stillness is in effect. While Fade Stepping, Winter's stillness is not in effect. While stationary you can spam fade cloak and walking bomb 40% faster than fade steppers. Even faster while staffing with gathering storm instead of fade stepping.

 

With the cooldown amulet, I can spam FC every 10 seconds. With WS, I can do it every 6 seconds, initiating battle with FC, and finishing them off with FC. Three 1000x spirit damage fade cloak casts in 12 seconds, which does double to important demons, vs two fade steps that do 300x cold damage. What does more damage... 3000x spirit damage, or 600x cold, even if you double hit both times with frost step it'd be 12x at the most. Vs spirit weak enemies, it'd be 6000x weapon damage vs 1200x. Less vs cold resistent enemies, despair demons, bears, etc.

 

All human perilous mob groups die within 10 seconds or less. Demons die quickly, but not as quickly due to wraiths and despair demons being spread out.

 

 

 

Maybe I am wrong but for me winter stillness is about mana regen so it doesn t decrease your cooldowns .... 

[Drasca]

Maybe I am wrong but for me winter stillness is about mana regen so it doesn t decrease your cooldowns .... 

 

You are wrong. Go play with more spells in less time. Easily test-able.

[J. Peterman]

We used to have a way of settling disputes like this in the ME3 forum....

 

THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!

[Nova Rayne]

We used to have a way of settling disputes like this in the ME3 forum....

 

THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but we're on the DAI forums now. The times have changed. Now we just Static Cage.

[J. Peterman]

Yeah, but we're on the DAI forums now. The times have changed. Now we just Static Cage.

 

[III Poison III]

Penguin is correct. You should be very mobile as a Necromancer, always on a kill streak, freezing and horrifying archers and thinning the ranks. Cast bomb first and then freeze and then horror as the bomb starts to explode everywhere, all while you're making you way to the back of the group to mop up.

[lpconfig]

We used to have a way of settling disputes like this in the ME3 forum....

 

THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!

Thunderdome is what those red templar behemoths do.

[BeardyMcGoo]

I just recently promoted my necro and i'm specifically not going to make it this build because of the "my build is the best, any other build/or skill placement is trash" attitude in this thread. I'll probably go fade step/spirit mark/flashfire/blizzard, while making sure to take winter stillness ASAP.

[gay_wardens]

im straight up dropping fade cloak for winter stillness + blizzard + walking bomb

 

its just way too tempting to spam the hell out of fade cloak

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

We used to have a way of settling disputes like this in the ME3 forum....

 

THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!

 

 

How is it that I've had 4 excuses to use this in the last week? 

[teos]

thanks a lot for your build im looking forward to try it on the next promotion is very different from the previous ones

[Drasca]

 

its just way too tempting to spam the hell out of fade cloak

 

Why you no like boom? Bwahahaha.

 

I had to drop Spirit Mark for the same reason, not because it is 'ineffective', but because I want to be a poke-demon master instead of trying to kill them. Terror demon, I choose you! Use Troll pop-up!

 

Red Shadow, use diving knives!

[-PenguinFetish-]

Blizzard is trash. It takes forever to freeze, it costs excessive mana due to preventing mana regen, and the chill effect doesn't slow down enemies nearly enough.

 

Death Siphon. Also, cast walking bomb before activating. Then frost step through stuff (no mana cost). Everything is now dead. It also progressively slows until frozen.

 

If you have static cage or pull of the abyss from allies, you are not frost stepping, you are casting damage spells and staffing... and this is where winter's stillness / gathering storm comes in.

 

I tend to not rely on my team to run certain kits to be optimal.

 

If you're frost stepping, your enemies are spread out and you are not achieving critical mass for damage.

 

You realise frost step can be directed through multiple enemies right? Walking bomb spreads through an area anyway so spread out enemies are irrelevent.

 

 

You are on PC. Post a video. I have no idea why people make guides without them. It will give your guide a lot more credibility.

[Drasca]

You are on PC. Post a video.

 

Got any advice on how to set video capture / upload up? You could make a guide to making guides, ha!

[IanLai]

fade cloak is very inconsistent especially off host and situational .  only AW is necessary.

if you want to effectively use fade cloak you need to be close to enemies. blizzard is a better choice in this case.

 

ice mine i never like it . 3 sec delay + no damage + 1enemy frozen . if you only want ice armor . blizzard is much better

but i really don't think ice armor is a must. not bad but not 100% need.

useful for range attack which can be deadly on perilous.

you won't be tank on perilous. lower difficult even don't need

 

virulence is another passive that sounds great but seldom work.

you really need a good timing on this to work. and hope your teammate not steal your kill

because you need to be the one who kill the enemy or  this passive not trigger.

unlike death siphon, anyone score a kill you get benefit

the only status effect is  frozen from winter grasp (i forget there is a chilled effect? who need multiple chilled when you get blizzard).

you need to spam your auto attack until the target nearly die and than winter grasp

you can't do walking bomb because you don't get enough mana to do winter grasp afterward.

it is only useful at the beginning of the engagement .it sounds great if you can freeze all enemies .

but i never see anyone can do it on perilous or threatening . when every teammate either spam AoE or archer 1 hit knock down.

you may be able to do a 1,2 time per match. that is already very good imo.

[IanLai]

You are on PC. Post a video. I have no idea why people make guides without them. It will give your guide a lot more credibility.

because not everyone get a good internet upload rate ( i only 60 kB/s)

the knowledge about compression of video

good video card for both recording and playing at the same time

 

i appreciate your video guide for the contribution and helpful knowledge. but i am sorry i don't watch your video

i only watch your verbal guide and people discus/argue with it. because not everyone speak native english

something can be more helpful inside the discussion.

you may even find some of your old video on builds already not optimal as you discover more in the game

and i really not interest in sitting for 5/10 mins listen to a lecture

just my sense . but i appreciate your work and some people must find it helpful. but video may be not as useful as people think

[Drasca]

I mean, seriously, have any of you played upgraded Flashfire with the Virulence passive? Everyone thinks it's bad, and never touches it.

 

Oh, I am definitely not part of that 'everyone' groupthink. FF was next on my list for 20+ second aoe fear via virulence. Should work great with this build, as a horror replacer. Tempted to get pyromancer along with it too.

[Artillis22]

I simply love blizzard, was doing a solo run of threatening diff with my necro and whenever I came up on a grouping id cast walking bomb then manualy detonate it imediately getting walking bomb on several targets then cast blizzard almost right on them but more between them and me then hide around a corner.  They would all come toward me into the blizzard taking 150% cold weapon damage a second on top of the walking bomb damage and clump up together in the blizzard because they were getting slowed by it and the several that got the first helping of walking bomb would start exploding and getting it on the rest and all pretty much die before their extra cold slow moving butts could make it to the other side of the blizzard.  If a few did make it id manualy stop the blizzard and recast it near me in the doorway to give me the 50% damage reduction and more slowing / damaage on them and walking bomb  if more then one made it or just staff them to death.  Oh and since the life steal / mana steal has a long range I'd be full life / mana even with blizzard by time any "if any" made it to me.

 

Also the life / mana drain from death siphon is a 10% life 20 mana gain not 10 mana gain like a previous poster mentioned.  Also winters stillness does state it reduces cooldowns in the upper wording but not by how much, which I never noticed in the fine print tell the debates of this thread.

 

However with my play style I never have cooldown or mana issues and rack up the kills just fine.  So yes if you want to play a more stationary necro the original posters set up would be good.  Me as well as a good majority of people prefer a more mobile necro so the original posters set up would not be good if you like staying mobile.

[IanLai]

I mean, seriously, have any of you played upgraded Flashfire with the Virulence passive? Everyone thinks it's bad, and never touches it. Pro Tip: Cast Walking Bomb, then Flashfire on a single target. Because of the mechanic of Walking Bomb, Virulence should always trigger (as somewhere you are counted as getting the kill because of the explosion, even if a teammate actually got the kill). Watch the Fear and Curse spread like a pandemic. It's amazing, yet no one talks about it. How I found out about it? Testing different builds.

 

With that said, no one wants to listen to a lecture, which is why I have been morphing my build guides week to week into something a bit less dry and a bit more entertaining. It's helped a lot. I also try to incorporate as much information visually so that people could understand the concept even with their sound off.

 

nice advice about flash fire with virulence

i do it with winter grasp with virulence in b4 .

but on paper still the same as winter grasp. 65mp is huge for single target .  and it does not cause burning DoT

difficult to work together with walking bomb because  you don't get enough mana to cast both

need a few sec to restore your mana.

as status effect for multiple foe is useful on engagement only. no reason to do it when there is 1,2 left

and the engagement time , you can't benefit from death siphon . this mean you need to wait for restoring mana while doing auto attack

i get a staff for 150 dps . still not fast enough to do this. either teammate shoot the same target or whatever reason

 

can't trigger virulence.

 

Here is the thing: I am pretty sure Penguin does things like me (correct me if I'm wrong Pegnuin). I spend usually a week or two building, promoting, and rebuilding my kits to find the optimal build for a specific role. Many of the characters can be built for various roles, which is why I have been receiving compliments from people just for not calling my videos "best builds". There are no "best" builds.

that's why i say the build is always changing and the video may not be updated as the discussion

video is useful . but  not always be the best choice.

it is good to watch pengnuin or your video. because you are helping. not show off

that's why i appreciate this kinds of behaviour