102 réponses à ce sujet

[xROLLxTIDEx]

How does this build work if you have 2 archer team mates, both with willpower 70+, putting everything down as fast as you can get to it?

And i'm going to try your build. WB, fc, ice mine, and whichever?

[Drasca]

Does it act as a detonator for anything?

 

Mind Blast is indeed a detonate, and with fortifying blast, provides barrier as well. Mind Blast's upgrade, Fortifying blast provides barrier per enemy hit, and works ideally since this playstyle revolves around clustering enemies.

 

How does this build work if you have 2 archer team mates, both with willpower 70+, putting everything down as fast as you can get to it?

And i'm going to try your build. WB, fc, ice mine, and whichever?

 

Splendidly, run to the back and pull the last mob while archers fire on enemies chasing you.

 

However, you're wrong on multiple points: False assumption of availability of over geared-promoted archers, and the archer rate of kill  within a competent group.

 

How many 70+ willpower end-game gear archers do you regularly play with? For me, I only know one of that's regular (myself), and another that doesn't play with me that often anymore (he who shall not be named by me).

 

Archers are not the fastest killers when it comes to clustered aoe enemies, due to bad angles / line of sight issues, non-crits, etc. They do spam Archer's Lance, but it is highly dependent on the team composition,  crit/cunning, and terrain. High cunning teams & long hallways are ideal. Corners are not.

 

In no particular order, the burst AoE kings are reavers (rage/mighty blow), katari (charge/mighty blow), necromancers (walking bomb / fade cloak), elementalists (fire mine), arcane warriors (fade cloak / stone fist), (Templar Wrath/Purge) and occasionally assassin deathblow underneath static cage/Pull.

 

For Demons with archers around: I play like I do my AW and all CQC kits. Run into the demon mobs, fade cloak and blow them to smithereens with aoe. Demons are the one enemy type where playing defensively is a bad idea due to ice mine.

 

Venatori/Templars: Archer DPS interrupted by shields, bad angles and return fire. Have them stand by in firing positions ideal for longshot during large pulls. Firing blindly will get them killed by enemy archer / horror fire.

 

Of course, my policy for pugs who are idiots and get themselves killed is: Don't follow, and let them die / ragequit. Win afterward, either solo or with better players. I do not support or entertain soon-to-be-dead pugs that don't listen.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Actually i do play with guys who do run archers and they have stacked that many promotions. I'm speaking from experience.

Archers consistently kill faster than any other character over the course of 5 zones. You can have certain situations where reavers or walking bomb can kill targets faster, but if you have good high level archers, the archers will thin the ranks leaving few aoe clusters left alive.

During speed runs 2 nights ago, captain said his willpower was 88, silver said his was 95. I have to take into account that my team mates kill things really, really fast.

[Boatzu]

Actually i do play with guys who do run archers and they have stacked that many promotions. I'm speaking from experience.
Archers consistently kill faster than any other character over the course of 5 zones. You can have certain situations where reavers or walking bomb can kill targets faster, but if you have good high level archers, the archers will thin the ranks leaving few aoe clusters left alive.
During speed runs 2 nights ago, captain said his willpower was 88, silver said his was 95. I have to take into account that my team mates kill things really, really fast.

I have similar stats to your friends and I would say gl holding aggro to stand still with fade cloak. Your best bet if you are playing with someone with such high stats is to play more support based necro and gather exp that way. Source: i am voldemort

[Drasca]

Archers consistently kill faster than any other character over the course of 5 zones.

You can have certain situations where reavers or walking bomb can kill targets faster,

but if you have good high level archers, the archers will thin the ranks leaving few aoe clusters left alive.

 

This is the part where you must adjust your team playstyle. As I declared earlier, if archers are thinning the ranks, then you must run past the easy adds, and nuke the primary mob groups with AoE. "Certain situations" are a lot.

 

If you're equally end-game geared as a high level aoe nuker (templar / reaver, etc mentioned previously), and you are speed running with your pals, you should be running to the biggest mobs and nuking them to bits.

 

Archers are inherently stationary and reactive for archer's lance to work. They will always lag behind more aggressive close combat players.

 

If you're lagging behind in a speed run group, you're just not playing aggressively enough. Leeroy Jenkins all the time, leaving behind enemies in your wake, because your allies can mop them up along the way.

 

I don't know what platform you play, but there's no way to directly challenge "what is better" and show you unless we're in the same game. I've had archer spam around, and I've had many other forms of high burst aoe damage around me too. In speedrun groups, don't stop for adds, I just let them follow me, as everything gets nuked to pieces along the way.

 

My primary advice to you around fast-killing teammates is to play more aggressively.

[Drasca]

 I would say gl holding aggro to stand still with fade cloak

 

Depends if there's area CC available. All archer group? No necros. Area CC via Keeper SC or AW Pull: Run directly inside the mobs. Keeper/AW/etc not playing aggressively? Tell'em to L2P more aggressively.

 

Run and stand still inside the SC/Pull, blow everything up in less than 6 seconds, faster than archers can line up long shot, run to the next mob. Speed groups spend more time running than killing. Learn to run aggressively.

[akots1]

I've tested this build of OP extensively in a few silver and gold games and can say that I'm sorry it does not work for me. The combo (freezing + mind blast + spreading the freeze) is very unreliable and ice mine is extremely unreliable off host. Even on host it has a lot of issues apparently due to small radius of mind blast or some other targeting problem. It looks good on paper but without normal video, I cannot tell what I'm doing wrong and I think it might work with more willpower and more constitution but then, anything would work. I suspect that mind blast works only if the enemies are actually trying to attack you personally and not just happen to run through its small area of effect. They do get stunned but upgraded MB does not detonate and does not give barrier if they are not aiming at you. It means if somebody aggro's the spawn, all your efforts are futile and necromancer might be better off with any other powers but ice mine or mind blast.

[Drasca]

I've tested this build of OP extensively in a few silver and gold games

 

This is a perilous build. Did you watch the teaser videos? They're linked on my signature under favorite skills.

 

 

I cannot tell what I'm doing wrong

 

Yeah, its hard to show you without playing in game or showing me video of what you're doing. That's the problem of the medium. Feel free to add me on Origin if you'd like, if you're on PC.

[Drasca]

People use Gold as an alternate name for Perilous.

 

I might note (not directed at you, Drasca) that it annoys me to no end. This is not ME3MP. There is not Silver or Gold difficulty, and by using those terms you confuse people that have not played ME3.

 

I know, but gold feels like threatening to me right now.  Silver's easy mode routine, and SP is bronze. Lol

[akots1]

Aside, (again, not directed at you Drasca) I still hate the comparison. I played ME3MP for some 1,200 hours and have absolutely no issue with using DAMP's terminology. Why do people feel the need to be "hipsters" by using terms from a completely different game made by BioWare? It doesn't make you cool... It just confuses people.

 

/rant

Lol, gold is shorter to type and that other word, I always misspell. Same for silver and bronze and whatever.

[akots1]

Wow... Yeah, sorry, that's a really... I mean really... poor excuse. ...
Yes, I'm being a bit of a ******.

Yes, you are a bit of a *****, I second that notion. Being a ***** and being lazy to type is a bit of a ***** difference.

[akots1]

Not really. Being lazy and deliberately confusing people is being a ****** just as much as someone calling you on it. At least I am honest enough to admit I'm being a ******. You seem to be unable to take a few extra milliseconds to type four extra letters. Do I go out of my way to insult people? No, I don't. I only am blunt and to the point when the situation merits it, as it does now.

 

Moral of the Story: This isn't ME3. If you want to play Bronze, Silver, or Gold, go play ME3. There are still quite a few people playing. If you want to play Routine, Threatening, or Perilous, then you are in the right place. Trying to use ME3 terms in DA only confuses people and/or makes you look foolish.

Oh, man, you really are a *****, and an one at that! So much hate, such a passion, I admire, I really do. You even hereby ban me from the forum. No, I'm wrong, form the Origin itself.

 

 

... I laugh a lot and will frequently make jokes about people here on BSN. Specifically those that get closed-minded about how the game should be played and/or adopt an arrogant attitude toward other players. Seriously, if I was actually a funny person, I might be able to make a living off the material people provide here. ...  Nothing against you all personally. The truth is that it's my way of venting frustration when I feel someone is being bull-headed and not listening to me or others. ...

/Angry Elcor mod off.

[silencekills]

That title sounds really frickin' familiar, but I can't peg it.

[SiLve]

it´s a nice build... very common these days.. i skip the icemine tho... its not very handy.. atleast for me ( i do play my ele with firemine tho.. idk why i dont like the icemine maybe it is except the freeze totaly useless... and even on per. mobs dieing ... fast lol ).

 

about the archer stuff... well.. maybe some ppl should simple check what willpower does.. and how much it affects the skills of the archers.....still ... 1 archer is np for that build.. 2 archers.. and well you can lean back ( aslong they do have the right gear ). 

 

but anyways...who is saying necro > archer.. is just a fanboi or met just bad gear/skill/skilled archers.

 

i like both classes.. both have pros and cons... no wait the archer doesn´t... and necros cons is the lack of massive spike damage. 

[Drasca]

about the archer stuff... well.. maybe some ppl should simple check what willpower does.. and how much it affects the skills of the archers.....

 

but anyways...who is saying necro > archer.. is just a fanboi or met just bad gear/skill/skilled archers.

 

i like both classes.. both have pros and cons... no wait the archer doesn´t... and necros cons is the lack of massive spike damage. 

 

There is no true scotsman? I am a true scotsman, with 90+ willpower, end game gear, etc, and I say so.

.

 

Hint: Willpower doesn't affect Archers as much as you think it does due to how the damage bonus of Archer's Lance works. AL BD is additive, not multiplicative, to AP%

 

Archer does not provide signifigant support exp. Necro builds with support in mind(blast) provides upward of 10k+ per run. Archer teams are the typical 20-25k exp. Necro / Keeper teams are 30-40k+ per run.

 

Archers provide line multitarget damage with limited archs and secondary+ hits bypassing obstacles. They do not provide burst aoe damage.

 

Necros provide burst AoE, and way more spike damage for AoE than Archers do. Archers can LS spam a single target conditionally, and AL conditionally.

[Drasca]

That title sounds really frickin' familiar, but I can't peg it.

 

Ever heard of the anime & manga Freezing? They're also on tv tropes, and the does not like being touched idea is listed. Maybe you're also thinking of the live action movie the Untouchables. It is a cultural idea that's quite common.

[JRandall0308]

While on this topic, thoughts on replacing Ice Mine with Fade Step + Frost Step? (Would have to steal a point from somewhere else, maybe Unsullied Victim.) I am finding the rhythm with Ice Mine tough to manage.

[KalGerion_Beast]

While on this topic, thoughts on replacing Ice Mine with Fade Step + Frost Step? (Would have to steal a point from somewhere else, maybe Unsullied Victim.) I am finding the rhythm with Ice Mine tough to manage.

Frost step doesnt trigger ice armor... I found your other point!

[DrKilledbyDeath]

While on this topic, thoughts on replacing Ice Mine with Fade Step + Frost Step? (Would have to steal a point from somewhere else, maybe Unsullied Victim.) I am finding the rhythm with Ice Mine tough to manage.

I like fade step on my Necro a lot. Things running at you, just fade step real quick and now they are frozen and you have damage resistance. It hits pretty hard too.

[Drasca]

While on this topic, thoughts on replacing Ice Mine with Fade Step + Frost Step? (Would have to steal a point from somewhere else, maybe Unsullied Victim.) I am finding the rhythm with Ice Mine tough to manage.

 

I've done it, and recommended it on my list of alternative skills to mix in, listed on my favorite builds thread in my signature. It works ok, but you will lose Ice Mine Freeze support exp, and winter's stillness every time you FS. Keep that in mind. If you're willing to trade high end burst damage and living on the edge nature of the class.
 

I would sooner trade MB than IM.

 

For a very kite-y, less burst damage / no freeze build, have both Spirit Mark and FS. Again, less support exp, and less dps, but it flows fine and you'll survive due to guaranteed self revive if you have Heal on Kill and a Pet up (don't dismiss your pets with SM unless you have another lined up).

 

 

I like fade step on my Necro a lot. Things running at you, just fade step real quick and now they are frozen and you have damage resistance. It hits pretty hard too.

 

If they're running at you with an IM at your feet, they'll be frozen, and ripe for the FC WB Det WB combo. BOOM everything is dead. If not, you can kite right back until you have FC.... which just means another combo --> kill.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

If they're running at you with an IM at your feet, they'll be frozen, and ripe for the FC WB Det WB combo. BOOM everything is dead. If not, you can kite right back until you have FC.... which just means another combo --> kill.

Interesting. Perhaps I will sub winters grasp and fade step for the mine and cloak and see how it goes. Honestly I could live with only using walking bomb, getting my crits with it around 1000. Wish I had more promotions.

[Fiddzz]

About to prestige my Necro, i'll try this out!

[ottffsse]

I find winter stillness dodgy on the necro as because you do not have barrier standing still is generally a very very bad idea. but I will try it out and see if it makes IM/WB/FC/?? build more effective and fun. and if I do make a more "stationary" aoe damage build I use IM/FC/WB/Blizzard usually- but that means unsullied victim goes out the window and power of the dead only comes in at lvl 20 if at all. Yes she's pretty untouchable - except for arrows, I hate arrows.

 

Playing perilious against vents  IM/FC/FS/WB build.

 

Stupid WB did not tag the target once or twice and nearly got me killed, but FC saved me there both times. 

 

Oh, and I ran into a druffalo in a later game but manged to down it easily by alternating fs and fc as it was going for me. I can upload more installments later but it's basically the same strategy as in the excerpt. It's pretty methodical, sort of like playing assassin, except you use fade cloak instead of stealth. - lay an ice mine, disable the enemy, go in for the kill. oh and when facing soft elemental damage targets like spellbinders and wraiths I found that of course by standing on an ice mine you can effectively tank them, even on perilious. That's also how I now take out those pesky despair demons out as running after them or fade steping to them generally just leads to more grief. Just make sure you are not in range of its ice beam attack. I just stand on the ice mine and engage it in a duel. If it decides to knock me down with its own mine attack, I fade cloak. 

[Drasca]

I switch up the last skill depending on my preference. I sometimes go MB, sometimes horror, sometimes SM. I don't stand still all the time, just when it is most advantageous to do so. Done FS before too, its ok but doesn't work with the aggressive kill them all playstyle that's advantageous with IM that I prefer. More surviveable if you mess up obviously, but killing speed goes down.

 

I hate arrows.

those pesky despair demons

 

 

Arrows: Cover for LoS pulls and/or FC / Freeze.

Despair Demons: Horror is awesome against these.  Again, I like to switch up the 4th skill, and adjust as needed. I'm used to taking cover / circle strafing them during ice beams, and jumping their ice mines though.

 

Don't need either skill, as I have non-ability counters but they're useful.