55 réponses à ce sujet

[fcedric]

i can imagine, then wanted us to discover this BIG MISTAKE after we have paid 79Euro for the game... And surely they didn't want to afraid Dragon Age Origins first hours players (dragon age fans which expect the same funcionalities they loved + newness (new things))

[gay_wardens]

this is nowhere near the only thing they need to fix

[JaegerBane]

What was the dev angry about? Seems like a strange response.

That does seem like a strange response, given how they laid out the spell system and they *must* have seen the issue in testing.

That said though, some devs get vocal when they see their work criticised, and sometimes they go overboard. I remember posting a scathing critique about the initial state FEAR 2 was released in, complaining about the enforced 16:9 aspect ratio putting big black bars across the top and bottom of the screen - only to have a dev have a serious meltdown over it where I was threatened with banning, my career potential questioned, he'd tell my mother about my behaviour etc etc etc.

Being a dev myself I know full well how this criticism can come across like, but when you make a design choice with such obvious holes then you can't expect the users to have much patience with it. It's exactly the same situation when they recycled dungeons back in DA2 - users have little to no patience with a feature that doesn't sound like it works, doesn't make sense regarding why it was introduced, then lo and behold, doesn't work. The 8 slot system has been directly ported from the the ME series, which had a max of 8 powers per character. This *had* to have been an obvious issue from the minute it was suggested.

[Salvo1]

I agree.  I was really shocked that it was removed.  8 spells is way too little in a game like this with so many ability trees and a specialization tree on top of that.  I thought including the radial spell menu would be common sense.

[JaegerBane]

Don't get me wrong, one can make a spell system work with 8 slots. Hell, blizzard managed it with 6 slots, and it worked brilliantly. However, it does come with the caveat that one designs the spell selection from the ground up with this in mind. What bioware did feels like they mashed the DA2 spell system together with ME3's shortcut system and drew a line under it. It doesn't feel like much thought went into its design.

[fcedric]

A simple radial spell menu, like in DAO/DA2/MEA/ME2/ME3 will solve the problem...
The radial menu already exist (L1- Potions), they just need to add a section in it with all the spells... 

 

If they don't return the Radial spells menu this month, in next patch i will never buy another Dragon Age... And i will go play Far Cry 4

[UnknownIntrigue]

Considering what I have read about this issue and all the people talking about it on the threads, and because myself agree with them. I am for the return of the Radial menu.

[hong]

I agree.  I was really shocked that it was removed.  8 spells is way too little in a game like this with so many ability trees and a specialization tree on top of that.  I thought including the radial spell menu would be common sense.

ppls really need to play Guild Wars. 10 classes, each with 70-100 skills, making for over 1000 skills in the game. And you could only have 8 active at any time. Not only that, but once you left town, you were stuck with whatever was on your bar. None of this respeccing-at-a-moment's-notice crap.

[AlexMBrennan]

Radial menus are designed for games that tie the mouse to the users viewport (typically First person and third person shooters) because you can't use the mouse to click on stuff at the bottom of the screen if moving the mouse simply changes where you are pointing your gun.

Now, ask yourself: Is Dragon Age Inquisition a first person shooter? No? Then you will agree that DAI does not need radial skill menus.
[unless you are talking about consoles, in which case I couldn't care less what pointless mechanics you need to make up for shooting yourself in the foot by insiting on playing an isometric RPG on a platform that doesn't have mouse support)

ppls really need to play Guild Wars. 10 classes, each with 70-100 skills, making for over 1000 skills in the game. And you could only have 8 active at any time. Not only that, but once you left town, you were stuck with whatever was on your bar. None of this respeccing-at-a-moment's-notice crap.

Or try Guild Wars 2 which has mostly removed these limitations (by giving you two equipped weapon sets to switch between during combat, and allowing you to change weapon sets and abilities as long as you are not in combat)

[Dominic_910]

Now, ask yourself: Is Dragon Age Inquisition a first person shooter? No? Then you will agree that DAI does not need radial skill menus.
 

No, i don't think i will agree. I like having access to more than 8 abilities and so do many others.

[hong]

Or try Guild Wars 2 which has mostly removed these limitations (by giving you two equipped weapon sets to switch between during combat,

GW1 allowed you to switch up to 4 weapon sets.

and allowing you to change weapon sets and abilities as long as you are not in combat)

And you are still limited to 9 skills at a time.

[Linkenski]

I vouch.

It feels more like it is unfinished than it feels like a conscious design choice as it is.

Why can we level so far beyond our 8 possible skills. It seems my character can use all activated abilities but only when I'm not controlling him. What a bummer.

[Rawgrim]

What was the dev angry about? Seems like a strange response.

 

He was having a bad day and took it out on me. A very bad day.

[JaegerBane]

Radial menus are designed for games that tie the mouse to the users viewport (typically First person and third person shooters) because you can't use the mouse to click on stuff at the bottom of the screen if moving the mouse simply changes where you are pointing your gun.
Now, ask yourself: Is Dragon Age Inquisition a first person shooter? No? Then you will agree that DAI does not need radial skill menus.

This is complete rubbish. Radial menus are designed to allow one to use a single button and a directional stick to choose from multiple options on screen, within a UI intended for viewing at a distance. That's it. It hasn't got anything to do with genres or viewpoints. Radial menus have been in everything from puzzle games to rts on console. It's the console controller equivalent to a mouse-driven drop down menu or icon list.

The underlying reasoning behind radial menus is that the spell system bioware implemented does not work properly when one can only have 8 active slots, as active abilities are prerequisites for passives in a game where you will have maxed out your available options by level ~13, and thus must start taking abilities you can't use to open up new avenues for points spending. It doesn't matter if DA:I was an FPS, an RTS or one of those weird Japanese porn games, the fact of the matter is that the UI is an obstacle to your in-game resource use.

[KaineT]

I support not so much as a radial menu as the ability to use more than 8 skills...
This isn't Guild Wars, which I am very much a fan of as well, this is Dragon Age. If I wanted to play Guild Wars/GW2 I'd play it.

Radial menus or at least spellbook access have been around since Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2... Why remove it now?

Please bring back to ability to use more than 8 spells, a lot of spells have utility or situational value in some tactical situations.

That said, what's the use of having a tactical cam/mode with limited spells/abilities and without any command cue?

 

P.S.

 

If they don't return the Radial spells menu this month, in next patch i will never buy another Dragon Age... And i will go play Far Cry 4

 

If I remember correctly, fcedric, the devs have stated this is the LAST DA installment... no more games after this one...
 

[Spirited Treasure]

I hated that radial menu.

[fcedric]

Radial menus are designed for games that tie the mouse to the users viewport (typically First person and third person shooters) because you can't use the mouse to click on stuff at the bottom of the screen if moving the mouse simply changes where you are pointing your gun.

Now, ask yourself: Is Dragon Age Inquisition a first person shooter? No? Then you will agree that DAI does not need radial skill menus.
[unless you are talking about consoles, in which case I couldn't care less what pointless mechanics you need to make up for shooting yourself in the foot by insiting on playing an isometric RPG on a platform that doesn't have mouse support)

Or try Guild Wars 2 which has mostly removed these limitations (by giving you two equipped weapon sets to switch between during combat, and allowing you to change weapon sets and abilities as long as you are not in combat)

NONSENSE You probably new to Dragon Age,because radial menu was in DAO/DA2/ME1/ME2/ME3

 

Radial spell menu is made to bypass the limitation of the lack of buttons... More spells than buttons = Radial Menu useful..

Mouse 2 button : DAI 20 spells ->  10 >2 = Radial spell menu useful necessary

PS4/PS3/XBOX controller : -> DAI 20 spells possible- controller 4 buttons x2 = 8 buttons  ->Spells= 20> 4 or 4x2 buttons = Radial spell menu useful necessary

 

Radial menu isn't the best solution, but if the AI/IA used the spells even if not mapped to controller buttons we don't desserve the Radial menu. And actually AI in DAI is limited to 8 spells... 

 

Spell mapped to controller AI use them, Spells not mapped AI don't use them... Even the AI don't use the spells if not mapped to button ... where is the logical in this ? AI don't have hands and fingers, AI don't need buttons ...AI is code...

This is why we want the Radial Menu ... Just to access all spells we unlocked... Or if not, limit us to LV10 ..

 

Understand why we need it now ? 

 

Why limiting us to 8 spells, the system in DAO/DA2 was working correctly... They also removed the tactics rows, which permitted :

- bypass the button limitation

- customize as you want the AI of compagnons...

 

 

I didn't knew they will not create a DA4, but of course if they do not listen their clients (custommers) gamers and didn't create satisfaction (instead of frustration), they should change occupation and do other thing than video games... Like Hot dogs for example

[AlanC9]

That does seem like a strange response, given how they laid out the spell system and they *must* have seen the issue in testing.

Once again I find myself wanting to see Bio's testing reports and who's filing them. Not that I expect their testing pool to resemble the BSN, of course.

That said though, some devs get vocal when they see their work criticised, and sometimes they go overboard. I remember posting a scathing critique about the initial state FEAR 2 was released in, complaining about the enforced 16:9 aspect ratio putting big black bars across the top and bottom of the screen - only to have a dev have a serious meltdown over it where I was threatened with banning, my career potential questioned, he'd tell my mother about my behaviour etc etc etc.

This sort of behavior strikes me as really dangerous for the company. It wouldn't take much for something like that to blow up on social media.

[AlanC9]

I
If I remember correctly, fcedric, the devs have stated this is the LAST DA installment... no more games after this one...

I don't recall that.

[fcedric]

If they do not plan DA4, why are they teasing us like this at the end of DAI...

But this is another debate, this topic is a petition for the return of Radial Menu...

And if possible a more customizable AI (Tactics rows) that have been stolen by Red Templ(biow)are

[JaegerBane]

This sort of behavior strikes me as really dangerous for the company. It wouldn't take much for something like that to blow up on social media.

Can't be helped, devs are human and as humans tend not to react well to being told years of their effort has resulted in something that needs x, y and z fixed. I've been in situations where I've wanted to punch certain users who are telling me that everything I've written is rubbish when I know full well there's reasons for the way things have turned out and the said users don't know about it because they're simply haven't got a clue how complicated the issue is, or how the data flow works.

That being said, there's a big difference between unfair or uninformed criticism and a user pointing out a feature that doesn't work, didn't sound like it would work when it first was announced, and the standing explanation being given is causing a spike in the BS readings. As a dev, you can't expect users to accept whatever you throw at them if it never made sense to begin with. The onus is kind of on the devs to prove that their design decision works if it differs from the previous system.

[KaineT]

I don't recall that.

I hope I'm wrong, I was watching one of the "dev dairy" type videos, I thought I remember some guy saying it will be the last. I could very well remember wrongly or it could have been another trilogy or it could very well be an old or outdated opinion. I'm unsure as I tried but I couldn't find that exact video again.

 

On the other hand... with the state DA: I is in... I'm tempted to say I have mixed feelings... lol

*braces for incoming stones*

[JohnstonMR]

I don't know that this would do any good, but I too want the radial menu back.  At the very least, I'd like to have the ability to store two or more "arrangements" of powers that I can switch on the fly. 

[fcedric]

Not even an answer from Bioware Team on this topic...

What the hell... Are us here only to pay cash game and shut up ? 

Where is the ME3 Bioware ? The Bioware which listen players and correct their errors ?

[AlanC9]

You should probably prepare for the answer to be "no."