900 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

When the situation goes back and forth like this for almost a decade, that's when you should be thinking "Oh wait, maybe it's more complicated than we were thinking".

 

Cassandra's comments on the matter just confirmed that the Seekers weren't qualified for the task they were given.

 

Not arguing. She does say the Seekers leaders made the call. 

 

I was simply pointing out that the Seekers did investigate, but the leaders, meaning Lambert during the time period of DA2, made the decision not to interfere or act. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Not arguing. She does say the Seekers leaders made the call. 

 

I was simply pointing out that the Seekers did investigate, but the leaders, meaning Lambert during the time period of DA2, made the decision not to interfere or act. 

Don't forget that Meredith sent death squads to kill nonmages and usurped the viscount's seat in Kirkwall and turned it into a templar run police state. The fact that Lambert didn't intervene just proved Cole's point that Lambert used the rules to hurt people. After all, mages were being oppressed but Lambert didn't interfere because of the justification that the blood magic meant the mages deserved it. 

 

I laugh when templar supporters say Justinia deserved to be overthrown for corruption yet we have an example of corruption in the Seekers that caused this whole mess. Guess corruption is only wrong if it helps mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

double post 

[Lulupab]

Some text from codex in game:

 

"Under Lord Seeker Lambert's command, the templars sworn to protect all people - including mages - from the harmful effects of magic, have instead persecuted mages with such biased judgment as to worsen the problems they were meant to mitigate and the Rite of Tranquility intended as a tool of last resort to stop uncontrolled mages from hurting themselves or others, has instead been used for punitive and political purposes to silence dissent and inhibit civilized discourse whereas Andraste herself intended the relationship between mage and templar to be one of practitioner and protector, not prisoner and jailer, and this contract has been broken"

[dragonflight288]

Don't forget that Meredith sent death squads to kill nonmages and usurped the viscount's seat in Kirkwall and turned it into a templar run police state. The fact that Lambert didn't intervene just proved Cole's point that Lambert used the rules to hurt people. After all, mages were being oppressed but Lambert didn't interfere because of the justification that the blood magic meant the mages deserved it. 

 

I laugh when templar supporters say Justinia deserved to be overthrown for corruption yet we have an example of corruption in the Seekers that caused this whole mess. Guess corruption is only wrong if it helps mages.

 

Again, not arguing. 

 

That was one of my largest points of criticism of the templars in DA2 for five years. 

 

And the Seekers were clearly corrupt. Cassandra's personal quest shows this, especially in her discussion with the Inquisitor about the Book of Secrets at the end of it, and that the leaders kept things from the Divine, things that they knew they would be called out on, although she doesn't specify what these things are beyond the fact that the Seekers knew the cure for tranquility all along and chose not share it.

 

Based on that dialogue, the corruption seems to predate Lambert. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

"oppression in Kirkwall" the vast majority of mages there were blood mages with some wanting to create a new Tevinter, is no wonder the templars were more extreme there

[MasqureMan]

Nobody hates like family. It would be wise to keep that in mind if you were to take such an approach.

Maybe so, but the potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives. They're already at war, there's nowhere to go but up from here. 

[dragonflight288]

"oppression in Kirkwall" the vast majority of mages there were blood mages with some wanting to create a new Tevinter, is no wonder the templars were more extreme there

 

So the death squad killing non-mages in Act 3 is a form of charity or justice then? 

[raging_monkey]

So the death squad killing non-mages in Act 3 is a form of charity or justice then? 

both

[KaiserShep]

"oppression in Kirkwall" the vast majority of mages there were blood mages with some wanting to create a new Tevinter, is no wonder the templars were more extreme there

 

It's kind of a vicious cycle, no? The Kirkwall Templars treat the mages and others poorly, and some lash out because of that along with the rogue elements that cause trouble, then giving the Templars reason to keep going. They make mages tranquil despite passing their harrowing, and swagger about like they own the city, which they pretty much do since they determine who gets to become ruler of its government.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

So the death squad killing non-mages in Act 3 is a form of charity or justice then? 

Well, if they put themselves in harms way by defending criminals its on their head

[thesuperdarkone2]

Well, if they put themselves in harms way by defending criminals its on their head

So if crazy Meredith's rules were in charge and Bethany was taken to the Circle, you totally would be okay with the templars killing you and your entire family since they broke the law by harboring an apostate.

[dragonflight288]

Well, if they put themselves in harms way by defending criminals its on their head

 

But its not a templars authority to act on them because they are not mages. You need to go to the magistrate, and Kirkwall had one. 

 

There is no justice when the rule of law is ignored, especially so when it's ignored by those who are supposed to enforce it. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Maybe so, but the potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives. They're already at war, there's nowhere to go but up from here. 

 

Agreed. But you'd have to be careful of creating new problems on that road to betterment.

 

It would work for a while. But I am curious as to how it would fall apart if things fractured at a certain point.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

So if crazy Meredith's rules were in charge and Bethany was taken to the Circle, you totally would be okay with the templars killing you and your entire family since they broke the law by harboring an apostate.

Anyone can make bad choices, still need to pay for it tho

[dragonflight288]

Anyone can make bad choices, still need to pay for it tho

 

To the proper authorities. The templars only area of governing before Asunder was over magic. They had no authority over anyone else. 

 

Or even mages in Circle's for that matter as the Nevarran Accord said that the mages would be ruled by a governing body of enchanters, but would be observed by templars. And Gregoire says the templars role is merely to watch and advise and that the First Enchanter should have the final say. 

[Lulupab]

There is no moral reason to side with Templars, only liking them can cause you. And I base this on results under same circumstances.

 

>Siding with mages:

- You save as many mages as you can.

- Abominations, blood mages and crazed Templars, some even fallen to demons roam the city

- Avline and her guards defend civilians

 

> Siding with Templars

- Very little amount of mages survive

- Abominations, blood mages and crazed Templars, some even fallen to demons roam the city

- Avline and her guards defend civilians

 

 

Differences are bold.

 

As a side note, Hawke cameo if siding with Templars makes ZERO SENSE.

[KaiserShep]

Well, if they put themselves in harms way by defending criminals its on their head

One can be a criminal even if violating the most unjust laws. The truth remains that the Kirkwall Templars treat people like sh*t, and there is clearly no oversight over how they run their Circle. Their system was broken. Even if Anders didn't blow up the Chantry, it stands to reason that someone, even a non-mage, might have taken actions against the order because of how poorly they were regarded there. Remember, regular folks didn't trust the Templars either, because they were basically like a holy gestapo.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Meh....i generally sided with Templars & helped restore order from the demon summoning blood mages in the circle

[raging_monkey]

Even defualt hawke sides with magi

[dragonflight288]

One can be a criminal even if violating the most unjust laws. The truth remains that the Kirkwall Templars treat people like sh*t, and there is clearly no oversight over how they run their Circle. Their system was broken. Even if Anders didn't blow up the Chantry, it stands to reason that someone, even a non-mage, might have taken actions against the order because of how poorly they were regarded there. Remember, regular folks didn't trust the Templars either, because they were basically like a holy gestapo.

 

A pro-mage Hawke is asked to join an alliance of nobles who are working to oust Meredith from the Viscount's seat of power as part of a sidequest. 

[dragonflight288]

Meh....i generally sided with Templars & helped restore order from the demon summoning blood mages in the circle

 

Your game, your choice. 

 

I do find it interesting that the codex on the Champion in Inquisition, when siding with the mages, is written by a Templar Knight-Commander addressing a bunch of other templars, and even she calls Meredith's actions unjustified and supports the champion. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Even defualt hawke sides with magi

 

With Hawke being nothing more than a thug, I am not surprised.

[Panda]

There is no moral reason to side with Templars, only liking them can cause you. And I base this on results under same circumstances.

 

>Siding with mages:

- You save as many mages as you can.

- Abominations, blood mages and crazed Templars, some even fallen to demons roam the city

- Avline and her guards defend civilians

 

> Siding with Templars

- Very little amount of mages survive

- Abominations, blood mages and crazed Templars, some even fallen to demons roam the city

- Avline and her guards defend civilians

 

 

Differences are bold.

 

As a side note, Hawke cameo if siding with Templars makes ZERO SENSE.

 

I prefer siding with templars. Why? Cause siding with mages feels like utter failure to me. The one's I'm protecting turn against me and kill themselves, that's not good ending for me. I also believe less people in total die if you side with templars and order can be restored more easily.

 

Not a good choice but a better choice, at least for me.

[raging_monkey]

With Hawke being nothing more than a thug, I am not surprised.

he's thugnifficent