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Should mages be free?


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#551
thesuperdarkone2

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Yes.

 

Skyrim became independant during the interregnum when Ocato was assassinated.  They thought Mede I would be an ok guy so decided to rejoin the empire when he took power.

They've also done fine during the periods between the first and second empire, and the second and third empire.

 

 

Speaking of that decree of monument.  To put in perspective how the imperials treated refugees from a large scale disaster...

 

 

"That is vexing," agreed Scotti, sympathetically. "To the east, the Khajiiti are burning everything, and to the west, the High Elves are waging war. I don't suppose the borders to the north are clear?"

"They're even worse," replied Mallon, finger on the page, still distracted. "The Cyrodiils and Redguards don't want Bosmer refugees streaming into their provinces. It only stands to reason. Imagine how much more criminally inclined they'd be now that they're homeless and hungry."

 

To be fair though, they are bosmer refugees.  Perhaps they didn't want to risk another Gaenor incident.

 

This is a silly assertion, claiming you know what spells their magical units used. We don't know, simple as that. What we do know is that the Nords' distrust of magic didn't mean that they couldn't stop the Aldmeri armies from retreating. It also doesn't mean, as I've already pointed out with the courtmages, that they are above enlisting magical talent when they need it.

 

The Nord's distrust of magic seem to be very selective, and doesn't include restoration and enchanting, and possibly destruction.

The priests in Skyrm appear to be expected to be trained in Restoration, and there is a reference to "Battle Maiden", which is how Snow-Shod describes his daughter. Her role in the Stormcloak army was to use her healing training to help the soldiers. Guards also express a very positive view of restoration, saying that there should be more people trained in it. And guards seem to have no problem with destruction as long as you don't burn down houses. Really, the Redguards seem to be more hateful of magic than the Nords are, given the views of a Redguard mage.

 

Quote:

"I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked. My family didn't approve of my vocation, so I had to come to Cyrodiil for my education. I admit... I still have strong prejudices against necromancy, summoning, and illusion. Profaning the remains or souls of the dead is just wrong. And I'm uneasy about tampering with other's minds and trafficking with Daedra."

 

I think people are overstating the Nords' distrust for magic, especially since the evidence seem to be that they distrust certain types of magic(I'm guessing Conjuration and Illusion primarily. Conjuration because of the Oblivion Crisis and daedra in general, and Illusion because it tampers with the mind), but not all types. Some are encouraged. So the claim that the Nords won't have magic, if the Stormcloaks win, can be easily dismissed when you look at the evidence. 

 

Edited to put in links to source my claims.



#552
Warden Commander Aeducan

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For a man who claim to fight for Skyrim, and for every Nords. He do more harm than good for Skyrim, and divide his people. Ironic isn't it. He might as well hand independence Skyrim to the Dominion on a silver plate.

#553
thesuperdarkone2

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Colonelkillabee's arguments:

 

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index



#554
thesuperdarkone2

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For a man who claim to fight for Skyrim, and for every Nords. He do more harm than good for Skyrim, and divide his people. Ironic isn't it. He might as well hand independence Skyrim to the Dominion on a silver plate.

The Empire is the Best Chance for a Victory Against the Thalmor

 

Is it? Are you sure about that? Because I see a few problems with this. First problem is that the Empire has alienated the Redguards by their actions in the great war, and abandoning their province to the Thalmor. That's going to be an issue when the Thalmor come to fight, because Hammerfell in an Empire Victory unless provoked will likely see no reason to help Cyrodiil if attacked. They'll have Skyrim, and maybe High Rock, but High Rock has been quiet so we don't quite know that for sure, and The Empire will be fighting the Thalmor on a one on one front. Now, in the event of a Stormcloak victory, lets say that Cyrodiil is attacked. Ulfric has made it clear that he intends to take the fight to the Thalmor. And he has been seeking help from High Rock. High Rock may also just be staying quiet to see who will win the great war. If so, that would mean maybe they'll help either side regardless. Also, Hammerfell is much more likely to side with Skyrim than it is the Empire due to being abandoned. So in the event of a Stormcloak victory, the Redguards have a higher chance of being in the fight. This would put the Thalmor on a multiple front war, and as your high school history class teachers will tell you:

 

http://i.imgur.com/OvC261R.png

 

http://s678.photobuc...addb71.jpg.html

 

Tdroid, on 23 Aug 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:snapback.png

Reading the Brief History of the Empire, which tells a short version of the history of the Septim Empire up until a certain point, should give you ample reason to distrust the Elder Council with leadership. http://www.uesp.net/...y_of_the_Empire

 

 

DovahNerevarine, on 23 Aug 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:snapback.png

The Alessian Order was pretty much the Thalmor of the First Era. The Dirennis of High Rock weren't exactly friendly to the Nords, in fact when they being trying to expand into parts of Skyrim they massacred many Nords in entire regions including the ones they took in High Rock. However once Kjoric the White was killed in battle against the Alessian Emporer Goreius, the Nords who have also been weakend from the War of Succession and the defeat at Red Mountain had to choose between an Altmer Hegemony with plenty of Nord blood on their hands or a crazy fantical Wimperial faction that wishes to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat or else destroy them.

Knowing how Nords are with religion, they chose to side with the Dirennis who've been quite successful then at beating the Alessians and thus the combined force join to completely destroy the Alessians at Glenumbria Moors. The Imperials got their asses handed to them so hard that the Alessians wouldn't fight another war for the next 600 years (they fought against Red Eagle and the Reachmen this time who still handed them their asses though were ultimately defeated). Hoag Merkkiller was sadly killed in battle ironically fighting alongside the mer against fellow humans.

Treng is going to slit his throat when he hears about this.  rofl.gif



#555
Guest_Imanol de Tafalla_*

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The Empire is a sinking ship.  The sooner Skyrim abandons it, the better.



#556
Augustei

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I leave for 5 mins to find darkone spamming heresy by the bucketload, those links have links to links man! It'll take me ages to read all that Heretical nonsense... If i can stomach such sickening Blasphemy in the first place that is

 



#557
Master Warder Z_

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I've actually got an old blog I wrote about the legitimacy of the Nord cause...

#558
thesuperdarkone2

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I leave for 5 mins to find darkone spamming heresy by the bucketload, those links have links to links man! It'll take me ages to read all that Heretical nonsense... If i can stomach such sickening Blasphemy in the first place that is

 

I've been part of Stormcloak vs Imperial debates for longer than you can imagine! Just as Colonelkillabee. I know him from the bethesda forums. Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned.



#559
thesuperdarkone2

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I've actually got an old blog I wrote about the legitimacy of the Nord cause...

Never thought I would ever see eye to eye with warder on anything.



#560
Colonelkillabee

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I see the same thing going on in every conversation. Stormcloaks offering support and lore and links, and Imperials TL;DR'ing to dismiss the logic and reason.

 

Let me contribute to the fire then just to show how much Stormcloaks actually research our position, because it IS more credible:

 

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index

 

This is my blog, and my "Stormcloak Bible". Enjoy.



#561
Colonelkillabee

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Colonelkillabee's arguments:

 

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index

 

 

Oh lol someone actually beat me to the punch :lol: Oh I remember you from BSF now, lol :lol: Hello!



#562
thesuperdarkone2

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Oh lol someone actually beat me to the punch :lol: Oh I remember you from BSF now, lol :lol: Hello!

Yeah, funny how we met here. It's warpenergybot


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#563
Colonelkillabee

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Yeah, funny how we met here. It's warpenergybot

Oh really? So that superdarkone's your account too, or is that someone else on bsf?



#564
Colonelkillabee

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Also, glad to see you man, we missed you in the roleplay :)



#565
thesuperdarkone2

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Oh really? So that superdarkone's your account too, or is that someone else on bsf?

Yeah, I'm warpenergybot. The bethesda boards got a little boring for me so I came here. 

 

Yeah, real life stuff got in the way of the role play so I didn't have as much time as before. Still, nice to see a cross-forum friend. Still, its late so I'm off to bed.



#566
Colonelkillabee

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Yeah, I'm warpenergybot. The bethesda boards got a little boring for me so I came here. 

 

Yeah, real life stuff got in the way of the role play so I didn't have as much time as before. Still, nice to see a cross-forum friend. Still, its late so I'm off to bed.

Lol you can say that for me too, more or less. Banned, ha. Goodnight :)



#567
Lulupab

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Aldmeri dominion is united, and the empire is the same. Either race breaking away from these alliances is free food for the other.



#568
Augustei

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I see the same thing going on in every conversation. Stormcloaks offering support and lore and links, and Imperials TL;DR'ing to dismiss the logic and reason.

 

Let me contribute to the fire then just to show how much Stormcloaks actually research our position, because it IS more credible:

 

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index

 

This is my blog, and my "Stormcloak Bible". Enjoy.

Pftt you wish, I went and had dinner and now I'm reading. Not far in yet but thus far all ive read is "The Imperials are more racist" to summarize, Though not far in yet so hopefully I can expect more. Arguments based around Morality and Emotion are of little interest to me tbh, Lets hope theres some cold logic ahead.

Edit: Okay now i'm encountering alot of opinion and conjecture, like this Stormcloak High Rock Alliance because "High Rock has been quiet"



#569
Colonelkillabee

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You're not far in at all then or you missed the point. Only reason I bring up racism is because the Imperial supporters always always always do first.



#570
Augustei

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Making me go to tumblr was a low blow btw, this place is evil

Also wish they'd make up their mind about the lore regarding the legions response to the oblivion crisis because its highly conflicted, actually around Ocato in general. Some sources claim him incompetent others a very skilled leader. Ocato was unwilling to withdraw any of the legions from the provinces because of the political shitstorm this would cause, other sources claim otherwise



#571
Colonelkillabee

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My corner's much nicer ;) Less fake transgender OTPs that dont exist bs, and more Stormcloaks and Cassandra.



#572
Lulupab

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There has been a lot of conflicts between Nords and Bretons. I don't see an alliance happening between them and more importantly I'm not seeing Bretons going against the empire.



#573
Colonelkillabee

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Making me go to tumblr was a low blow btw, this place is evil

Also wish they'd make up their mind about the lore regarding the legions response to the oblivion crisis because its highly conflicted, actually around Ocato in general. Some sources claim him incompetent others a very skilled leader. Ocato was unwilling to withdraw any of the legions from the provinces because of the political shitstorm this would cause, other sources claim otherwise

The general rule is the latest entries supersede the older ones. They basically retconned oblivion's version. Lol, low blow.



#574
Colonelkillabee

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There has been a lot of conflicts between Nords and Bretons. I don't see an alliance happening between them and more importantly I'm not seeing Bretons going against the empire.

There's been conflict between a lot of nations that are allies later. Nords sided with the Direnni Altmer against the Alessian order. The Nordic king then? Hoag "Merkiller" lol. And then TESO came along... any alliance is possible. High Rock has no reason not to join, and their conflict back then was within Skyrim ages ago.



#575
Augustei

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Eww don't bring the lorerape that is TESO into this