900 réponses à ce sujet

[AshesEleven]

I think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying there aren't mass murderers that are mages, I'm saying that there are mass murderers that aren't .

 

Thedas with it's Circles sort of reminds me of German Nazi setting to be honest

 

Right, okay.  Phewf.  I thought you were being dense.

 

I definitely think the Circles need reform, but I don't think they should be abolished.  There should be places where mages go to train and learn how to master their magical talents.  They should, however, be able to visit their families, or go outside the Circle, or whatever.  

 

Templars should still exist in some capacity, but should exist as protectors of mages, as their ideal suggests, not remain as jailers.  Maybe also have templars in villages and cities in case mages attack or there's some magical disaster what not.  

 

Perhaps the Templar Order could also be composed of trained Mages (like Knight Enchanters?) who have the power to stop other mages if they go crazy.  That way, you're not putting all the power in the hands of non-mages.  

[Br3admax]

I think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying there aren't mass murderers that are mages, I'm saying that there are mass murderers that aren't .

 

Thedas with it's Circles sort of reminds me of German Nazi setting to be honest

Good old Godwin. Never fails us.

[I present Chuck Bass]

But the Templar seek the right of annulement everytime Blood Magic is Involved . They didnt do squat in DAO when it happen....

 

And there is more to this issue then 'Oh is Magic Bad?' . There is the right of annulement issue . There is the Harrowing issue and then there is the Tranquil solution issue . 

 

It isn't just about letting mage be free . It is a whole system of control and abuse . There are good Mages who want to learn and live happy and safe with everyone else . And ya also have peoples who don't want Magic at all , yet they are shoved in the same category as everyone just because of Magic . 

 

So I dont think this issue is cut and clean as just 'Letting the Mage be free' . the whole system should be seen for what it is and find a solution for each issue that appear . 

 

But let take your idea out : let say the Mage live in a circle free , study and have all freedoms . And templar live elsewhere under the chantry and are there if anything ever Happen . 

 

Do you really believe , that the chantry or the Templar would just go their merry way and Let them be free ?? when the chantry tied the duty of a Templar to a Holy institution and that if ya go against it you are undoing the Maker will ?? 

 Lets just agree there is no simple or even good answer to the problem . The problem is finding what is best, because no matter what someone is going to get the short end of stick.

[AlexiaRevan]

 Lets just agree there is no simple or even good answer to the problem . The problem is finding what is best, because no matter what someone is going to get the short end of stick.

Well at least....for once this topic didnt go on fire ! I say that   

[raging_monkey]

Well at least....for once this topic didnt go on fire ! I say that 

ikr its actually civil XD

[Lulupab]

The mages "govern themselves" if the epilogue is any judge. I didn't get any "absolute freedom" vibe from College of Enchanters in epilogue.

[I present Chuck Bass]

Right, okay.  Phewf.  I thought you were being dense.

 

I definitely think the Circles need reform, but I don't think they should be abolished.  There should be places where mages go to train and learn how to master their magical talents.  They should, however, be able to visit their families, or go outside the Circle, or whatever.  

 

Templars should still exist in some capacity, but should exist as protectors of mages, as their ideal suggests, not remain as jailers.  Maybe also have templars in villages and cities in case mages attack or there's some magical disaster what not.  

 

Perhaps the Templar Order could also be composed of trained Mages (like Knight Enchanters?) who have the power to stop other mages if they go crazy.  That way, you're not putting all the power in the hands of non-mages.  

 I agree, Mages should be allowed to marry, have kids, come and go every once in awhile. Mages need to feel like the circle is a home, a haven from anti-mage hate, and a place for them to grow in their magic.Templars should not be jailers like you said, they should be called in when needed, and they should be fellow mages not drugged non mages who don't understand the perspective of a mage. 

[I present Chuck Bass]

The mages "govern themselves" if the epilogue is any judge. I didn't get any "absolute freedom" vibe from College of Enchanters in epilogue.

 is this if Leliana is the divine???

[raging_monkey]

The mages "govern themselves" if the epilogue is any judge. I didn't get any "absolute freedom" vibe from College of Enchanters in epilogue.

if anything i got a isolationistXaqetarian fraternity vibe

[Lulupab]

 is this if Leliana is the divine???

 

yeah if you make Leliana Divine the epilogue says the mages will govern Themselves in the college.

[ThreeF]

 I don't know about that, close to half of the mages want circles, no jews wanted concentration camps. The Nazi's goal was to eliminate the Jews, the circle doesn't want to kill mages, some templars do but the circles aren't there for that.

 

I'm not referring to Circles per se but to the mindset of the general population.

 

I'm referring  to the propaganda that was presented to the general population in that time, how it set a certain mindset that was followed by the results that it followed.

 

If you read old papers and stuff it's all "Jews are evil", "You can't trust a Jews" etc. The propaganda played on people's economical situation, gave them reasoning and created a certain climate and mindset that allowed for things to happen. 

[raging_monkey]

is this if Leliana is the divine???

yes but only if sided with magi if my memory serves me proper

[Lulupab]

if anything i got a isolationistXaqetarian fraternity vibe

 

I think there will be some degree of isolation at least. 

[I present Chuck Bass]

yeah if you make Leliana Divine the epilogue says the mages will govern Themselves in the college.

 even if you didn't disband the templars and allied with them?

[MisterJB]

 I agree, Mages should be allowed to marry, have kids, come and go every once in awhile. Mages need to feel like the circle is a home, a haven from anti-mage hate, and a place for them to grow in their magic.Templars should not be jailers like you said, they should be called in when needed, and they should be fellow mages not drugged non mages who don't understand the perspective of a mage. 

 

Non-mages are selected to police and punish because they have a vested interest in protecting non-mages from mages. What assurances can be given that mages will have the same interest and not always take the side of mages because "they understand the perspective of a mage"?

[ThreeF]

Good old Godwin. Never fails us.

Never.

[MisterJB]

The mages "govern themselves" if the epilogue is any judge. I didn't get any "absolute freedom" vibe from College of Enchanters in epilogue.

 

If the mages govern themselves then they have as much freedom as they give themselves. That is absolute freedom limited only by how much they fear non-magical retaliation.

Also, it's not "the" epilogue, it's "an" epilogue. The College of Enchanters may not exist at all.

[I present Chuck Bass]

Non-mages are selected to police and punish because they have a vested interest in protecting non-mages from mages. What assurances can be given that mages will have the same interest and not always take the side of mages because "they understand the perspective of a mage"?

 i don't know if they are anything like vivienne, then they will put the crackdown on their fellow mages when needed. Mages hate blood magic and when mages break the rules more than anyone else, so i think they could do a fair job policing that. If not thats why you have the seekers always watching, always ready to pounce.

[Lulupab]

Non-mages are selected to police and punish because they have a vested interest in protecting non-mages from mages. What assurances can be given that mages will have the same interest and not always take the side of mages because "they understand the perspective of a mage"?

Double standard and bias at its best.

Thinks "Non-mages are selected to police and punish because they have a vested interest in protecting non-mages from mages" while doesn't agree that mages want to be alive and they know they have no hope of winning a war against none-mages so they will keep their own bad eggs in check for survival alone if nothing else. (and there are plenty more reasons) Both can fail and succeed at equal chance. I don't need to remind you how spectacular the none-mage punish and police failed.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Would be stupid giving dangerous walking weapons absolute freedom to do whatever they want

[AshesEleven]

 Lets just agree there is no simple or even good answer to the problem . The problem is finding what is best, because no matter what someone is going to get the short end of stick.

 

There will also always be people who abuse their position, whether that be mages or Templars, or normal people.  That's why Templars SHOULD exist, because there's not much that can kill a crazy, power-hungry mage save a Templar or another mage.  But the ranks of the Templars shouldn't just be non-Mages.  

[MisterJB]

Double standard and bias at its best.

Thinks "Non-mages are selected to police and punish because they have a vested interest in protecting non-mages from mages" while doesn't agree that mages want to be alive and they know they have no hope of winning a war against none-mages so they will keep their own bad eggs in check for survival alone if nothing else. (and there are plenty more reasons) Both can fail and succeed at equal chance. I don't need to remind you how spectacular the none-mage punish and police failed.

 

Yeah, this knowledge they don't stand a chance really helped prevent the mage rebellion.

And it's not ke the options are between "war" and "well behaved mages who stay out of non-mage's lives". There's plenty of room to be abused here.
 

[Lulupab]

If the mages govern themselves then they have as much freedom as they give themselves. That is absolute freedom limited only by how much they fear non-magical retaliation.

Also, it's not "the" epilogue, it's "an" epilogue. The College of Enchanters may not exist at all.

 

So? Are you claiming tarts who don't know anything about magic know how much of it is safe? If anything mages can decide that better than anyone.

 

We are talking about mage freedom and its directly related to Leliana so its a know epilogue that its we are talking about. 

[I present Chuck Bass]

Would be stupid giving dangerous walking weapons absolute freedom to do whatever they want

 

true, but the current system detained them so much, that it all just exploded... and the rebellion happened as a result. It's exactly why firework warehouses are a horrible idea. 

[MisterJB]

So? Are you claiming tarts who don't know anything about magic know how much of it is safe? If anything mages can decide that better than anyone.

I'm proving you wrong and that self-ruled mages means mages without restrictions. That is all.