900 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

so you think in the next game, wherever it is, the mages will be free in thedas... because thats the canon the writers at bioware have taken?

if we go to tevinter it will be easier to ignore cause it those southener issues and vint magi are already "free" hell they may go so far that its just a minor mention

[Master Warder Z_]

Tevinter is mage dominated. The Southerners wish to avoid this.
Kirkwall was one extreme but Tevinter is another.

Bingo.

[SnakeCode]

It's impossible for Cole to be bias or lie, if you played DA2 you'd know that this is the case with spirits like him. 

Spirits/Demons lie all the time. It's kinda like, their whole deal.

[raging_monkey]

It's impossible for Cole to be bias or lie, if you played DA2 you'd know that this is the case with spirits like him.

there are no spirits like him he's "unique"

[Kinsz]

And you are not biased? Cole read him like he does everyone else and he is always accurate. He is also incapable of lying.

Cole > You.

Also Cassandra has the same beliefs. Her quote "Lord seeker Lambert betrayed us all, there is no question".

Cole doesnt say that Lambert planned on overthrowing the Divine before the Asunder events though, i remember that banter very well , in fact go to 1:20:20 of this video . In the end however Lambert cared more about making an example of the mages than justice.

[I present Chuck Bass]

if we go to tevinter it will be easier to ignore cause it those southener issues and vint magi are already "free" hell they may go so far that its just a minor mention

we either are going to tevinter or to the Anderfels.  I want to go to the Rivain so badly though.

[Laughing_Man]

 ...Ser Barris as head templar, things are about as good as can be for the templars...

 

No matter your plan, if it is based on your trust in one man, you are in serious trouble.

What happens when his successor is a Meredith 2.0?

[Master Warder Z_]

o.o headcannon infects people like red lyrium.

[President of Boom]

Most convincing reasoning I have heard yet.* slow clap*

Yes.

[TheTsar_]

Spirits/Demons lie all the time. It's kinda like, their whole deal.

You are simply wrong in this case. 

"If Hawke listens to or attempts to make a deal with the sloth demon Torpor, Justice will object increasingly before turning hostile, resulting in Anders' death in the Fade. Neither is actually killed, however. If Hawke does not follow through on the deal and asks Anders why Justice couldn't have simply played along with it, Anders admits that a benign spirit is incapable of lying to maintain a ruse, and Justice is no exception"

[Laughing_Man]

Spirits/Demons lie all the time. It's kinda like, their whole deal.

 

Not exactly. They may not tell you the whole truth, but I don't think they outright lie.

 

I could be wrong.

[Panda]

Feel free, but pretty much in all endings templars get the stick and mages get better lives. Only the scale of that is different. 

 

Well I have to stop the catastrophe best I can then.

[SnakeCode]

And you are not biased? Cole read him like he does everyone else and he is always accurate. He is also incapable of lying.

Cole > You.

Also Cassandra has the same beliefs. Her quote "Lord seeker Lambert betrayed us all, there is no question".

The difference being that I qm merely giving my opinion on why I think Lambert was justified in his actions.

 

You presented something as fact, when I asked for irrefutable proof, you failed to deliver. You gave a biased characters account, which is neither irrefutable, nor proof.

[Kinsz]

You are simply wrong in this case. 

"If Hawke listens to or attempts to make a deal with the sloth demon Torpor, Justice will object increasingly before turning hostile, resulting in Anders' death in the Fade. Neither is actually killed, however. If Hawke does not follow through on the deal and asks Anders why Justice couldn't have simply played along with it, Anders admits that a benign spirit is incapable of lying to maintain a ruse, and Justice is no exception"

Correct , Cole cannot lie nor does he ever want to.

[Panda]

No one asked for retcons. All I said was that people suggested workable solutions in the past, solutions that afford mages most or many of their freedoms, and at the same time taking steps to minimize risks, if through education, specialized security forces, and using magic actually "to serve man" through healing and other services.

 

Mages are great as bogyman if you want to keep the peasants in line, but the potential for using magic to actually advance society and science *responsibly* - is almost unlimited.

 

Reformed circles in other words.

[dragonflight288]

Spirits/Demons lie all the time. It's kinda like, their whole deal.

 

Demons deceive, trick and try to one-up people, but a bargain struck is a bargain kept. Just not the way the mortal expects, usually. We see this with the Desire and Pride demon trying to trick Feynriel into accepting them and possessing him by playing on his desire for a father-figure or being a hero of the Dalish. 

 

I have yet to see a spirit embodying a virtue lie or deceive anyone. Valor in the mage origin outright states he'll kill you in the duel if you are unworthy to face the demon in his opinion. Justice in Awakening is very straightforward, and is the same in DA2 as Vengeance. It's Anders who lies to Hawke. 

 

As Solas points out, spirits and the Fade itself reflects the nature of those in the mortal world. A mortal bringing a corrupting influence will corrupt the spirit, whether by binding it and forcing them to do something against its nature, or in Justice's case, possessed Anders who in turn corrupted him from seeking Justice to seeking Vengeance for mages. 

 

If you're going to say spirits and demons both lie and cheat as their MO, then that statement requires proof. I have met you half way and showed two examples of demons trying to deceive a potential host. If a benign spirit is capable of deception, I ask for one example. 

[Kinsz]

The difference being that I qm merely giving my opinion on why I think Lambert was justified in his actions.

 

You presented something as fact, when I asked for irrefutable proof, you failed to deliver. You gave a biased characters account, which is neither irrefutable, nor proof.

Cole isnt biased , well not in a bad way anyways , he helps the people in need. He didnt say that Lambert wanted to overthrow the Divine before the Asunder events though , Lulu imagined that , here is a video of him talking about it , go to 1:20:20.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

Correct , Cole cannot lie nor does he ever want to.

Spirits have the limit of being bound by perspective though.

Their bias for lack of a better word prevents them from knowing anything beyond what they are bound to.

And that context colors all their views on anything and everything.

[dragonflight288]

Reformed circles in other words.

 

Which happens in pretty much every ending. 

 

There is no going back to the status quo, and I doubt that Bioware will retcon it so the option is available considering every ending pretty much says that doesn't happen. 

 

But reformed circles happen in plenty of the endings, so most people can get the ending they want either way.

[SnakeCode]

You are simply wrong in this case. 

"If Hawke listens to or attempts to make a deal with the sloth demon Torpor, Justice will object increasingly before turning hostile, resulting in Anders' death in the Fade. Neither is actually killed, however. If Hawke does not follow through on the deal and asks Anders why Justice couldn't have simply played along with it, Anders admits that a benign spirit is incapable of lying to maintain a ruse, and Justice is no exception"

Torpor certainly lies throughout that exchange though, hell remember mouse? The demon that pretended to be your ally, a mage who had failed his harrowing. Was that not all a lie?

[Kinsz]

Spirits have the limit of being bound by perspective though.

Their bias for lack of a better word prevents them from knowing anything beyond what they are bound to.

And that context colors all their views on anything and everything.

My point is , they dont lie in order to push some agenda like a human would , so sure Cole is biased in that he sides with the innocent's interests , is that a bad thing though?

[Panda]

Which happens in pretty much every ending. 

 

There is no going back to the status quo, and I doubt that Bioware will retcon it so the option is available considering every ending pretty much says that doesn't happen. 

 

But reformed circles happen in plenty of the endings, so most people can get the ending they want either way.

 

Well I was informed that Leliana's they didn't which is why she must not become Divine no matter the cost.

 

Good that they exist in most endings though. Hopefully I'll achieve one of those with reformed templar order as well.

[TheTsar_]

Spirits have the limit of being bound by perspective though.

Their bias for lack of a better word prevents them from knowing anything beyond what they are bound to.

And that context colors all their views on anything and everything.

Except Cole doesn't have that perspective, he simply knows. Most think of what Solas did as evil, but Cole doesn't. If Lambert wasn't a bad man, Cole would say so. 

 

 

 

SnakeCode, on 10 Jan 2015 - 7:44 PM, said:Torpor certainly lies throughout that exchange though, hell remember mouse? The demon that pretended to be your ally, a mage who had failed his harrowing. Was that not all a lie?

 

Do you not know what benign means?

[MisterJB]

It's not as if Cole couldn't erroneously interpret something or even interpret it in an ambiguous way. He doesn't like to hurt people but what if hurting some people saves others?

[Laughing_Man]

Reformed circles in other words.

 

It's better not to use the word "circle" if you are going to reform the system anyway.

First step is to fix something is to recognize that what was before is broken and needs fixing.