1820 réponses à ce sujet

[Felis Menari]

It sure would be nice if the devs got around to finishing the (potential) romance with scout Harding. It's funny how some folks refer to her as the "Aveline" of DA:I, but there's one, very significant difference that gets overlooked; the chain of scenes and dialogue dealing with courting Harding have no conclusion, whereas those with Aveline most certainly do. The last thing Harding says relating to the romance is that she'll talk to you at the bar/inn later, which never happens. I suppose one could assume 'Oh, she's just showing her disinterest.". But ya see, this is a videogame we're talking about, where events, plots, and yes, romances require some semblance of a conclusion.

[Maverick827]

See I don't get posts like this... A game actually having more than one or two non-straight identified characters is pandering to SJW's? Really? These kinds people actually exist you know. It doesn't harm you to have them represented in game media. It does harm them to remain non-existent in such media. When you find yourself not represented at all... or represented poorly in popular media you are left as "other", "outside", "isolated". No one should be made to feel that way. More inclusion generally improves society IMO.
 
And you see absolutely nothing wrong with  "3 or 4 het romances for each gender" (for you)... "2 bisexual ones" (that you could possibly enjoy too) and "maybe 1 homosexual romance for both genders" (because why should anyone interested in pursuing a same sex romance have the same number of options that you enjoy right?)

Purely for the sake of argument, why "should" he do anything in "his" game (his words were "if I made the game") if he doesn't want to?

I don't believe any quotas should be met. I have no issue with a heterosexual person including only heterosexual romances in their work, a homosexual person including only homosexual romances, a heterosexual person including only homosexual romances, and a homosexual person including only heterosexual romances. I only stop here because the permutations start to get ridiculous when you add other sexualities. But you get the point.

I believe an artist should make what they feel like making, and either reap, suffer, or remain indifferent to the consequences (should that be a financially viable option).

[Nic Mercy]

Purely for the sake of argument, why "should" he do anything in "his" game (his words were "if I made the game") if he doesn't want to?

I don't believe any quotas should be met. I have no issue with a heterosexual person including only heterosexual romances in their work, a homosexual person including only homosexual romances, a heterosexual person including only homosexual romances, and a homosexual person including only heterosexual romances. I only stop here because the permutations start to get ridiculous when you add other sexualities. But you get the point.

I believe an artist should make what they feel like making, and either reap, suffer, or remain indifferent to the consequences (should that be a financially viable option).

 

There is no reason he "should" do something he doesn't like in "his" game. But I felt it important to highlight the clear bias being presented in the hopes that maybe... just maybe... that 1) the person I quoted or anyone else with similar views might see just how favored they already are and have been for decades in media and 2) that just because such diverse content actually has more than a token presence doesn't mean Bioware is catering to "social justice warriors" (a term I find ridiculously over used these days in many situations where it is completely unwarranted). Ultimately I believe this type of response is the "culture shock" of people who lead largely insular lives and are used to being the primary focus of most media, actually being exposed to types of people often outside their experience. For some strange reason many people tend to switch to "us vs. them" mode in such cases.

[LobselVith8]

It sure would be nice if the devs got around to finishing the (potential) romance with scout Harding. It's funny how some folks refer to her as the "Aveline" of DA:I, but there's one, very significant difference that gets overlooked; the chain of scenes and dialogue dealing with courting Harding have no conclusion, whereas those with Aveline most certainly do. The last thing Harding says relating to the romance is that she'll talk to you at the bar/inn later, which never happens. I suppose one could assume 'Oh, she's just showing her disinterest.". But ya see, this is a videogame we're talking about, where events, plots, and yes, romances require some semblance of a conclusion.

 

Yeah, it's a little strange that the romance conversation with Harding is basically left on a cliffhanger with no resolution, particularly as she's the closest that the player can come to a dwarven romance in three entire games, which is a bit ridiculous at this point.

[crimzontearz]

Yeah, it's a little strange that the romance conversation with Harding is basically left on a cliffhanger with no resolution, particularly as she's the closest that the player can come to a dwarven romance in three entire games, which is a bit ridiculous at this point.

Bioware has a tendency to think they know what is best even if sometimes it makes no sense and it us almost guaranteed to look quite silly at best or downright idiotic at worst...

Case in point (besides the ending of ME3)


Tali's face reveal....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Bioware has a tendency to think they know what is best even if sometimes it makes no sense and it us almost guaranteed to look quite silly at best or downright idiotic at worst...

Case in point (besides the ending of ME3)


Tali's face reveal....

I like Tali's face.

[Farangbaa]

-disgusted noise-

-snarls-

 

Deal. With.  It.

[Liveshiptrader]

There is no reason he "should" do something he doesn't like in "his" game. But I felt it important to highlight the clear bias being presented in the hopes that maybe... justmaybe... that 1) the person I quoted or anyone else with similar views might see just how favored they already are 

 

It needs to be said time and time again but this has nothing to do with fairness, when you or I donate then our thoughts are what that can do for others but speaking for myself when I go to buy a game for me I am concerned with whether I would enjoy it, if others enjoy that's good but that is not my main concern and I find it stupid to be told it should be.

 

I am not saying this is true for you but many people who bring up the idea of fairness are being disengenuous, rather than say they want something purely because they want something they say it should be included because of fairness, that's true entitlement, none of us are entitled to anything as far as games are concerned.

[Nic Mercy]

It needs to be said time and time again but this has nothing to do with fairness, when you or I donate then our thoughts are what that can do for others but speaking for myself when I go to buy a game for me I am concerned with whether I would enjoy it, if others enjoy that's good but that is not my main concern and I find it stupid to be told it should be.

 

I am not saying this is true for you but many people who bring up the idea of fairness are being disengenuous, rather than say they want something purely because they want something they say it should be included because of fairness, that's true entitlement, none of us are entitled to anything as far as games are concerned.

 

It shouldn't be your main concern... but it's not stupid to HAVE concern about others enjoying the game. Why? Because the more people who enjoy the game the more successful it will be and the more games the developers can produce in the future. It's really not that hard to grasp. If all someone cares about is what they like and don't like, and screw anyone else's possible enjoyment of the game, well that's just a pretty selfish and craptastic viewpoint to hold (not saying you specifically hold such a viewpoint).

 

If the sole reason that someone can't enjoy a game is because it has non-straight characters making up a more than miniscule portion of the cast then I believe such people need to expand their exposure to different people. While none of us are entitled to anything as far as games are concerned, games (and all other media) are a reflection of the world we live in to some degree. Game developers recognize that their media is a voice out in the world and many of them wish to be inclusive to more types of people and that is their right. Bioware is not obligated to include non-straight characters but they choose to because it expands the appeal of their game and lets them explore a wider array of characterization. Criticizing them because say only 80%* of the cast is straight instead of 95%* is pretty petty IMO (again not saying you specifically hold such a view).

 

The thing anyone whining about non-straight characters in most games often fail to take in to account is that these characters can often be ignored or not chosen to be part of the story to any great degree. But then of course they feel like they are somehow being cheated out of content because "the devs wasted time on this gay stuff when they could have made more for ME".  And they see nothing wrong with that self-entitled line of thinking.

 

As far as romance goes, in most cases you have to initiate any content that's romantically centered and these days the devs tend to make it fairly obvious when you're flirting (the little heart icon is kinda a dead give away right?) so it's not hard to avoid any "oops I hit on the gay dude" situations. But there's some people out there who get their ire risen just because these characters exist. ONE... ONE transgender character added to DAI... and bam its all "sjw's this and that" nonsense. Krem's inclusion did no harm to DAI and in fact added a very unique and interesting character. One that many people find memorable.

 

This isn't about fairness. It's about self-entitlement getting shot in the foot. People who expect  95%* of the content to be catered to them (because let's face it, it HAS been catered to most of them as long as they've been alive) are now suffering the "culture shock" of only getting 80%* of the content catered to them.

 

* all %'s are pulled out of my nether regions for my examples

[Farangbaa]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

[Nic Mercy]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

 

Agreed. Demonizing those that wish for inclusion of a variety of people into society will never make sense to me. And its not just the gaming scene... but the world at large that's in a bad state with that type of thinking.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

It comes from how some of them instead of being inclusive of all basically just targeted the ones they don't stand for with vitriol remarks. And since the most vocal of any side are the ones who become the symbol of that side it became attached to all of them. 

[Panda]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

 

I guess it depends on definition of it, I see it as bad thing but others might see me as SJW as well..

[Liveshiptrader]

Very little of this has to do with what I said but I'll have a go

 

It shouldn't be your main concern... but it's not stupid to HAVE concern about others enjoying the game. Why? Because the more people who enjoy the game the more successful it will be and the more games the developers can produce in the future. It's really not that hard to grasp. If all someone cares about is what they like and don't like, and screw anyone else's possible enjoyment of the game, well that's just a pretty selfish and craptastic viewpoint to hold (not saying you specifically hold such a viewpoint).

 

Stating the obvious but again wanting other people not to enjoy the game was never the point, you just added that to make it look like you had an actual point to make.

 

If the sole reason that someone can't enjoy a game is because it has non-straight characters making up a more than miniscule portion of the cast then I believe such people need to expand their exposure to different people.

 

This is a personnel view for you as an individual, you are advocating that it be forced on others, whether I agree or not is irrelevant, would you say that a woman that is uncomfortable with physical intimacy go out and seek romantic media? I wouldn't because that's her choice.

 

The thing anyone whining about non-straight characters in most games often fail to take in to account is that these characters can often be ignored or not chosen to be part of the story to any great degree. But then of course they feel like they are somehow being cheated out of content because "the devs wasted time on this gay stuff when they could have made more for ME".  And they see nothing wrong with that self-entitled line of thinking.

 

Whining? You or I can ask for whatever we want, we buy the game so it's not whining, whether we get it or not is another matter. If I want nothing but gays or no gays shouldn't matter.

 

As far as romance goes, in most cases you have to initiate any content that's romantically centered and these days the devs tend to make it fairly obvious when you're flirting (the little heart icon is kinda a dead give away right?) so it's not hard to avoid any "oops I hit on the gay dude" situations. But there's some people out there who get their ire risen just because these characters exist. ONE... ONE transgender character added to DAI... and bam its all "sjw's this and that" nonsense. Krem's inclusion did no harm to DAI and in fact added a very unique and interesting character. One that many people find memorable.

 

I personnelly agree with you that some people went overboard but the character was added just for the sake of having a transgender character which I don't agree with and if they hadn't been transgender you probably wouldn't even remember who they where, if you find the character interesting for being transgender fair enough but i can't think of any other reason why you would think they where interesting. Hardly a major issue in my eyes

 

This isn't about fairness. It's about self-entitlement getting shot in the foot. People who expect  95%* of the content to be catered to them (because let's face it, it HAS been catered to most of them as long as they've been alive) are now suffering the "culture shock" of only getting 80%* of the content catered to them.

 

Your right, it is about selfishness, this should only be about what we want, the difference is I admit that from my end and see nothing wrong with that. Let's describe the situation for what it was for me as an individual rather than your strawman, I expected something similar but not too similar to what had gone before, I bought this on remaining faith from previous games, I am voicing what I would have preferred for the next Bioware game, I have less faithl going in to the next one so I will scrutinize the product more before I decide to buy or not. Bioware have done nothing wrong and I have done nothing wrong.

 

I am fine with gay, lesbian, female content, I will say what my personnel grievance is, that fact that certain things where removed. It's funny that people get so hostile at that idea when these are the very same people who advocate for gay content when that may offend others.

[Liveshiptrader]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

 

Because it's the negative of social justice advocate, the idea that all causes under the banner of social justice are good is the problem, an actual problem with the activist scene.

[AWTEW]

I agree with everything you said, I really do. The thing is, saying "I don't think --- is attractive" or "This character is ugly" isn't an attack on someones sexuality, or gender. Even saying "We got the short end of the stick" though wrong, isn't an attack.

 

The problem is, most of the responses to these kinds of posts ARE. The "straight men are whiners/crybabies/are spitting their dummies out" posts are attacking both a persons gender and sexuality. Alas, i'm rambling, and getting back into the modding discrepancy territory.

 

I'll finish by saying that I agree that someones sexuality (or gender) should never be something that should be attacked. All posts/posters doing so should be dealt with accordingly, which is why I'm baffled that the attacks on "straight white males" are not only allowed to stand, but actually appear to be getting rewarded (via the person who's being attacked having their thread locked.)

 

 Except, that a lot of males have ( thanks to the multi billion dollar porn industry, and marketing and ect)  grown up being brainwashed with unhealthy  physical expectations of women. Women have had to compare themselves to these unrealistic standards for so long, that they inwardly hold a lot of resentment.  In a world that mostly caters to straight men, women are  socially expected to wear makeup every-day 365 days a year, if they wear singets and shorts they are imidiattly labelled a ****, and its perfectly fine to have a music video with over sexualised women, but when its in reverse then it's almost taken down straight away.

 

So when a group of men/men constantly more or less claim the same mass-marketed attributes,  as 'attractive' then of course they are going to get 'attacked' because those same attributes have brought a lot of self-doubt, anger, and resentment to many women.

 

Bioware has a tendency to think they know what is best even if sometimes it makes no sense and it us almost guaranteed to look quite silly at best or downright idiotic at worst...

Case in point (besides the ending of ME3)


Tali's face reveal....

 

Oh I remember that, the RAGE, the butthurt... WAS GLORIOUS!

[daveliam]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.

That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

I absolutely wear that title as a badge of honor. The idea that pointing out that someone is concerned about social justice is an insult shows exactly what's wrong with the industry right now in my opinion. It's why I find it so amusing when someone on the forums lobs it my way, intending it to be an insult. I'm like, "Uh, yeah, thanks. And your point on the actual matter at hand is....?"

[daveliam]

I am fine with gay, lesbian, female content, I will say what my personnel grievance is, that fact that certain things where removed. It's funny that people get so hostile at that idea when these are the very same people who advocate for gay content when that may offend others.

Can you clarify? What was removed and how does that relate to LGBT content?

[crimzontearz]

Except, that a lot of males have ( thanks to the multi billion dollar porn industry, and marketing and ect) grown up being brainwashed with unhealthy physical expectations of women. Women have had to compare themselves to these unrealistic standards for so long, that they inwardly hold a lot of resentment. In a world that mostly caters to straight men, women are socially expected to wear makeup every-day 365 days a year, if they wear singets and shorts they are imidiattly labelled a ****, and its perfectly fine to have a music video with over sexualised women, but when its in reverse then it's almost taken down straight away.

So when a group of men/men constantly more or less claim the same mass-marketed attributes, as 'attractive' then of course they are going to get 'attacked' because those same attributes have brought a lot of self-doubt, anger, and resentment to many women.


Oh I remember that, the RAGE, the butthurt... WAS GLORIOUS!

You....do realize I was talking about a ridiculously lazy design decision and the fact they lied about it right?

[Maverick827]

Except, that a lot of males have ( thanks to the multi billion dollar porn industry, and marketing and ect)  grown up being brainwashed with unhealthy  physical expectations of women. Women have had to compare themselves to these unrealistic standards for so long, that they inwardly hold a lot of resentment.  In a world that mostly caters to straight men, women are  socially expected to wear makeup every-day 365 days a year, if they wear singets and shorts they are imidiattly labelled a ****, and its perfectly fine to have a music video with over sexualised women, but when its in reverse then it's almost taken down straight away.
 
So when a group of men/men constantly more or less claim the same mass-marketed attributes,  as 'attractive' then of course they are going to get 'attacked' because those same attributes have brought a lot of self-doubt, anger, and resentment to many women.
 

 
Oh I remember that, the RAGE, the butthurt... WAS GLORIOUS!

Men are equally marketed with unrealistic standards, but no one ever seems to care about that.

[Panda]

I'm still very puzzled why many straight male gamers insist that there is universal standards of how female characters should look so they are attractive and sexy and why they have so strict view on what women should have and what not. I haven't heard anyone but straight male gamers to make lists on what character should not have to be attractive.

[crimzontearz]

Men are equally marketed with unrealistic standards, but no one ever seems to care about that.

yeeeeep

But hey appatently for is part of the power fantasy so it's cool

[Panda]

yeeeeep

But hey appatently for is part of the power fantasy so it's cool

 

It's more of the power fantasy cause it's not as much "you have to be like this and you can't be like this or girls won't like you" and more of living up to power fantasy that guys have for male gender.

 

Of cource some of that can be that you have to be certain ways to attract women but not as much as women got.

[Maverick827]

yeeeeep
But hey appatently for is part of the power fantasy so it's cool

If I'm being honest, I believe that men are portrayed less realistically than women these days. There are many people who are just naturally "skinny." We all know these people, we all hate these people. They eat fast food every day, never exercise, and are still always in shape. That's the standard women have to live up to - just being skinny.

No one naturally looks like Chris Hemsworth. Looking like that for the average man takes far more effort than simply "staying skinny" for the average anybody.

There is something to be said that men can "get away" with being out of shape more than women. There are many more Kevin Jameses then there are Melissa McCarthies. But that's a bit different of an issue than living up to beauty standards.

I have a feeling I might be met with hostility here, though, because men are traditionally not allowed to be vocal about body issues. I'm not trying to turn this into some sort of contest, it's just that I logically believe it to be more difficult to be a giant mass of muscle than it is to be skinny if only because one can naturally be obtained and one cannot.

[SnakeCode]

I like how Social Justice Warrior is somehow a bad thing.That really shows just how bad things are in the gaming scene

I disagree here. Though I wouldn't consider it an insult, and consider myself on their side on certain issues (I'm all for continued and hopefully increased LGBT and female friendly content.) I would hesitate to take being compared to the likes of Sarkeesian, Mackintosh. Wu etc, as a compliment.