1820 réponses à ce sujet

[ReiKokoFuuu]

reading through these posts, i feel like the only person who doesn't know the difference between a male and female pov......

[Colonelkillabee]

I'd also still like consideration for both of these previous responses:
 

Spoiler

Ever thought that it's because it's different for men and women? Not all women are the same of course but I've seen this argument before, and a lot more men focus on individual body parts than women do generally. When they do surveys and such, women say they want to see full body shots so they can see a man's arms and broad shoulders for instance.
 
I know women like a man with a nice ass, but lol, women don't seem to like ass the way men do...
 
I don't think a game having a masculine pov is the same as not thinking women would play. People said this same thing about True Detective. It was just a story with a more masculine narrative.

Really, if you argue that games like the witcher don't give a damn about females, you're not much different than those saying females can't enjoy football. Lol my mom knows more about football than me, btw. Much more.
 
Point is, what's wrong with having things from a masculine pov, even if it is a majority. That's the game developer's choice. And women can enjoy it all just fine, just like men. I don't call out romance novels for generally being from a female POV. I enjoy them just fine, more or less, without saying they don't give a damn about men, even when what they say about us a lot of the time isn't very flattering.
 
Why is it masculinity that gets attacked for being what it is?

[AWTEW]

Really, if you argue that games like the witcher don't give a damn about females, you're not much different than those saying females can't enjoy football. Lol my mom knows more about football than me, btw. Much more.

 

Point is, what's wrong with having things from a masculine pov, even if it is a majority. That's the game developer's choice. And women can enjoy it all just fine, just like men. I don't call out romance novels for generally being from a female POV. I enjoy them just fine, more or less, without saying they don't give a damn about men, even when what they say about us a lot of the time isn't very flattering.

 

Why is it masculinity that gets attacked for being what it is?

 

Because it's a socio-cultural construct.

[Colonelkillabee]

reading through these posts, i feel like the only person who doesn't know the difference between a male and female pov......

To be honest, there really isn't. Which goes along with the point I made about females being able to enjoy things like football just like men.

 

It's only "male" and "female" because both sexes feed into the stereotypes of what is and isn't enjoyable for us. Hence why a mature game like Witcher with violence and sex is somehow insensitive to female gamers...

[Suketchi]

The problem isn't so much that Straight males don't get many options, its that Straight Females get more than everyone else.

 

What should have been done is scrape Solais's romance(Sorry to fans of it but it really wasn't necessary) make Scout Harding Romancable and have both her and Cullen be Bi. That way everyone gets 3 diverse options and its all fair.

 

Before someone says "Cullen was Straight in the first two games" yeah? so was Kaidan but that didn't stop Bioware from Making him Bi in Mass Effect 3.

 

(As a sidenote, I would be complaining if Straight Women got the Shaft instead)

 

[Colonelkillabee]

To be honest, there really isn't. Which goes along with the point I made about females being able to enjoy things like football just like men.

 

It's only "male" and "female" because both sexes feed into the stereotypes of what is and isn't enjoyable for us. Hence why a mature game like Witcher with violence and sex is somehow insensitive to female gamers...

 

 

Well, let me revisit that. There certainly is a male and female pov, it's just exaggerated immensely.

[nikki-tikki]

Yes, and the two male exclusive romances, Cassandra and Dorian, are probably the best ones in the game. (Other than maybe Solas. I've never done/watched that one, so I don't really have an opinion.)

 

Quality > quantity.

If you don't want your heart ripped out...don't do Solas' romance...

[ReiKokoFuuu]

Well, let me revisit that. There certainly is a male and female pov, it's just exaggerated immensely.

 

why can't we all just agree that everyone has their OWN pov instead of feeding these stereotypes?

 

for example, i like my fair share of bioware men, but there are definitely a lot of lovely ladies too and while i do value a character's personality far more than their looks, i'll readily admit that i've liked looking at both miranda's and dorian's...assets.  at the same time, a game's too boring for me without an abundance of violence and death, an engaging storyline and characters and good romances.  that's neither a male or female pov, that's MY pov.

 

watching everyone go back and forth on this topic is tiring

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah Jensen. That and his chin is so sharp I swear you could sharpen a knife on that thing. Ended up more fond of Pritchard (or however you spell his name).

I didn't mind Jenson. 

 

That said, my favorite character in that game by far was Faridah Malik. 

[Colonelkillabee]

why can't we all just agree that everyone has their OWN pov instead of feeding these stereotypes?

 

for example, i like my fair share of bioware men, but there are definitely a lot of lovely ladies too and while i do value a character's personality far more than their looks, i'll readily admit that i've liked looking at both miranda's and dorian's...assets.  at the same time, a game's too boring for me without an abundance of violence and death, an engaging storyline and characters and good romances.  that's neither a male or female pov, that's MY pov.

 

watching everyone go back and forth on this topic is tiring

Well first, because humanity loves putting things in categories.

 

Second because those categories aren't always 100 percent bullshit. In this case, it's not 100 percent bullshit. Is it true enough to say that a game favors males or females? No, lol. Maybe some extreme cases. GTA for instance, but even then it's not like a woman can't enjoy that game, and if they don't, it's not because the game hates females or doesn't care about them, it's because they simply don't like shooting random people and slapping prostitutes. LOL. And neither do I.

 

But, your pov does exist, while the "male" and "female" one does simultaneously. They're just not credible enough to really use as a guide without feeding inaccurate stereotypes. And even if those stereotypes have some truth to them, like men liking violence more than most women, which I personally think is true...

 

It doesn't really matter, because it's not a rule. You can't say all women dislike violence, or even most, so there's absolutely no merit in using these generalizations to argue that this medium or that hates females. Or otherwise.

[Panda]

You mean the game where you get to watch the sexiest man ever take his shirt off constantly, and where sorceresses manipulate kings and have immense power, and controls a large part of the narrative?

 

Ehhhhhhh, I don't know about that one. Witcher has a lot of female fans.

 

Geralt isn't attractive to me, I'm not into hunky types. I don't really find his personality that attractive either, pretty generic male hero. Also no he has had shirt all the time I have played the game and I haven't seen the sorceress, like I previously said I have just played first one,

 

The Witcher is full of interesting female characters, too, but the game got tarred as sexist and now in some quarters- BSN being no surprise here- it's considered such no matter what they do, simply because they represent a straight male perspective without apology.

And I'm not sure how one gets away from playing that game without finding Geralt a sexy beast.

BTW Mass Effect had the ass shot from game one. Everyone mentions Miranda, but the escort in ME1 gets up in your face and then the camera cuts immediately to a shot of her jiggling ass as she walks up some stairs. Then there's the lapdance minigame across the way. But I just shake my head and enjoy a good game anyway.

 

I'm talking about my own experience with the game. I started playing it with open mind. There isn't game that would have made me feel as uncomfortable and unwelcomed than Witcher this far, maybe I have been lucky.

 

Really, if you argue that games like the witcher don't give a damn about females, you're not much different than those saying females can't enjoy football. Lol my mom knows more about football than me, btw. Much more.

 

Point is, what's wrong with having things from a masculine pov, even if it is a majority. That's the game developer's choice. And women can enjoy it all just fine, just like men. I don't call out romance novels for generally being from a female POV. I enjoy them just fine, more or less, without saying they don't give a damn about men, even when what they say about us a lot of the time isn't very flattering.

 

Why is it masculinity that gets attacked for being what it is?

 

 

I have already stated what makes me uncomfortable and unwelcomed about the Witcher. So far only story has been likeable. But really if you are going to treat 80% of the women in the game sex objects I do have problem with it. This is not about male point of view or masculinity. This is about poorly written female characters whose only purpose is being one night stands for fanservice only for male players. The poorly writteness of these romances even goes against their own story and world.

 

Women do like same things that men do. But do you really think women should start liking badly written female characters? Fanservicey and poorly written one night stands that are cringe-worthy as best? Sexist environment that makes them feel uncomfortable?

 

I like violence in video games. Strategic battles. Crafting stuff. Getting immersed to story. Well written characters. Humour. Great aesthetics (not graphics cause they aren't same). I think these things I share with male gamers. Liking cringe-worthy fanservice and poorly written female characters? No that one I don't share with male gamers.

 

Yeah Jensen. That and his chin is so sharp I swear you could sharpen a knife on that thing. Ended up more fond of Pritchard (or however you spell his name).

 

Sarif the silver fox is the one you are supposed to be into

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Oh man, this thread again?

[Colonelkillabee]

I have already stated what makes me uncomfortable and unwelcomed about the Witcher. So far only story has been likeable. But really if you are going to treat 80% of the women in the game sex objects I do have problem with it. This is not about male point of view or masculinity. This is about poorly written female characters whose only purpose is being one night stands for fanservice only for male players. The poorly writteness of these romances even goes against their own story and world.

 

Women do like same things that men do. But do you really think women should start liking badly written female characters? Fanservicey and poorly written one night stands that are cringe-worthy as best? Sexist environment that makes them feel uncomfortable?

 

First of all, just like Geralt's obvious sexy, lol, what you're saying is subjective. Badly written women... for you.

 

Second of all, sex is kinda hard without temporarily treating someone as a sex object... and Geralt bangs a lot of women without having any attachment to them. That's who he is, he's a mercenary. He pretty much treats everything that way, from causes and jobs, to most women he gets sexually involved with. That's the story. That's what frustrates others about him. His witcher's code that makes him neutral and non committing, even Triss, who wishes he'd stick with her and only her, and in my game that's what happens.

 

You see that as a bad thing, but actually, a lot of women don't mind it at all, one because sex is fun, and two, because you don't HAVE TO TREAT THEM THAT WAY! That is entirely up to you! Geralt is as slutty as you make him.

[Colonelkillabee]

 

Also, I find it funny people have the nerve to talk about sexually objectifying women in Witcher with Isabella walking around in dragon age. If she can be considered a well written character despite how gross she is, I don't see the issue with witcher.

[Panda]

First of all, just like Geralt's obvious sexy, lol, what you're saying is subjective. Badly written women... for you.

 

Second of all, sex is kinda hard without temporarily treating someone as a sex object... and Geralt bangs a lot of women without having any attachment to them. That's who he is, he's a mercenary. He pretty much treats everything that way, from causes and jobs, to most women he gets sexually involved with. That's the story. That's what frustrates others about him. His witcher's code that makes him neutral and non committing, even Triss, who wishes he'd stick with her and only her, and in my game that's what happens.

 

You see that as a bad thing, but actually, a lot of women don't mind it at all, one because sex is fun, and two, because you don't HAVE TO TREAT THEM THAT WAY! That is entirely up to you! Geralt is as slutty as you make him.

 

I have talked about this all before but they are badly written cause majority of the women in the game exist to have sex with Geralt. They don't have any plot relevance.

 

I'm not talking on how Geralt treats women, I'm talking how developers do. They have made them only fanservice sex objects. I'm exclusing Tris and Shianni who have at least some kind of plot relevance although they are still both sexualised without reason.

 

Seriously do you think Witcher 1's sex is fun? Except how badly written it and flirts are? I mean yes for example in DA and ME series sex with person you have been dating whole game is fun. But in Witcher? Having sex with witch in the cave so she can that way prove her innocence? Having sex with Lady of the forest with nibbles so she can have baby with you but guess what- Geralt just 10 minutes ago declared that he's infertile. Good sexy times? Who in the world considers these as well written sex?

 

I do have one female friend who likes Witcher series. Because one elf in Witcher 2 with too hard name to remember. But does she enjoy badly written female characters that are treated as sex objects? No.

[Panda]

 

 

Also, I find it funny people have the nerve to talk about sexually objectifying women in Witcher with Isabella walking around in dragon age. If she can be considered a well written character despite how gross she is, I don't see the issue with witcher.

 

 

Lol this one too. Isabela was one I was saying isn't sexualised and sexually objectifying alongside with Catwoman. Sexy is not same as sexually objectivying and sexualised. Sexiness is part of her personality and what she enjoys, she's not used against her character and enviroment.

[Colonelkillabee]

I have talked about this all before but they are badly written cause majority of the women in the game exist to have sex with Geralt. They don't have any plot relevance.

 

I'm not talking on how Geralt treats women, I'm talking how developers do. They have made them only fanservice sex objects. I'm exclusing Tris and Shianni who have at least some kind of plot relevance although they are still both sexualised without reason.

 

Seriously do you think Witcher 1's sex is fun? Except how badly written it and flirts are? I mean yes for example in DA and ME series sex with person you have been dating whole game is fun. But in Witcher? Having sex with witch in the cave so she can that way prove her innocence? Having sex with Lady of the forest with nibbles so she can have baby with you but guess what- Geralt just 10 minutes ago declared that he's infertile. Good sexy times? Who in the world considers these as well written sex?

 

I do have one female friend who likes Witcher series. Because one elf in Witcher 2 with too hard name to remember. But does she enjoy badly written female characters that are treated as sex objects? No.

LOL this isn't a smutty romance novel, its a game. And they're minor characters that you're talking about. Honestly I think you're reading way too much into something that is just supposed to be a minor amusement, which yes it did amuse me. Especially the cards, lol.

 

And the developers are simply staying faithful to the character, as the game is based off of books, and they write that he banged a lot of weird ****.

 

 

Lol this one too. Isabela was one I was saying isn't sexualised and sexually objectifying alongside with Catwoman. Sexy is not same as sexually objectivying and sexualised. Sexiness is part of her personality and what she enjoys, she's not used against her character and enviroment.

 

LOL seriously, there's sexy and then there's Isabella. She's sexy yea, but she practically bangs everything that moves. She has an actual Itch named after her and from her own words says she casts a wide net...

 

That's gross as hell and is really no better.

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

In any role playing game more is always better than less.

Bioware chose to this time try to make things more "adult" with the inclusion of toplessness in the sex scenes.
While I applaud their desire to step away front he horrid "rolling around in your lingerie" from dao, I think they severely guide you carrot and stick into their definition of romance.

You can't be a "player" and so much of the game is invested in it that a player feels like they are skipping a large part of the game if their character is the other end.
Best option is still to add more options with a fade to black and let the player define his or her own characters actions. Have the core romances that can be defined as romances or just sex and some casual encounters- choosing not to "try out" the dalish maiden defines your char as much as trying her (or him).
Also the whole "triangle" is gone where characters approach you and force a decision-
Probably taken out because of another bioware fatal flaw in their decision to remove the "persuade/intimidate" options in the game.

[Colonelkillabee]

All that said, there are some instances in the first Witcher that makes you raise your eyebrows, and you can tell the writers probably knew that, as things are a bit more toned down for witcher 2.

 

But overall, this whole Anita Sarkeesian sex object crap is so overplayed and overstated that it no longer has any meaning, as I can reverse it and apply the same logic to make any game look objectifying and demeaning for men.

[Panda]

LOL this isn't a smutty romance novel, its a game. And they're minor characters that you're talking about. Honestly I think you're reading way too much into something that is just supposed to be a minor amusement, which yes it did amuse me. Especially the cards, lol.

 

And the developers are simply staying faithful to the character, as the game is based off of books, and they write that he banged a lot of weird ****.

 

 

 

LOL seriously, there's sexy and then there's Isabella. She's sexy yea, but she practically bangs everything that moves. She has an actual Itch named after her and from her own words says she casts a wide net...

 

That's gross as hell and is really no better.

 

I don't think there is any way we can see eye to eye.

 

Isabela wanting to have sex and liking sex is not sexually objectifying in no way. She's same as Zevran and Iron Bull. Are they sexually objectifying also? You might think it's gross and dislike it but that doesn't mean she is poorly written nor sexualised.

 

I'm talking about what made me uncomfortable about the game and what game has badly written and sexualised female characters I have seen and that's the Witcher. I'm not you and I can't play the game like you. If you like your badly written and gringe-worthy sex as feel free, but I can't be into that stuff nor the way the women are portrayed in the game.

 

I'm into other stuff alongside with lot of female players- that's why the game has got lot of critic about things I listed. Some female players do like Witcher, even it's cringe-worthy sex scenes but that doesn't change on what they are. Poor fanservice attempts.

[Colonelkillabee]

All those women for one reason or another wanted to have sex with geralt, so yea we're not going to see eye to eye. Men are put in really minor small roles that only serve to be killed or what have you as well. Moreso than female characters.

 

I could see if Witcher had only women like this, but that isn't the case.

 

You don't have to like the game, but this sex object stuff is really over thought and finds issues that aren't there. The devs wanted to stay faithful to the character and offer players the chance to bang a lot of skeezy women like he's said to do, so they put that in. Does every random piece of ass he gets really need to be that dynamic?

 

The characters that actually matter to the story are the ones who get better writing.

[BobZilla84]

In any role playing game more is always better than less.
Bioware chose to this time try to make things more "adult" with the inclusion of toplessness in the sex scenes.
While I applaud their desire to step away front he horrid "rolling around in your lingerie" from dao, I think they severely guide you carrot and stick into their definition of romance.
You can't be a "player" and so much of the game is invested in it that a player feels like they are skipping a large part of the game if their character is the other end.
Best option is still to add more options with a fade to black and let the player define his or her own characters actions. Have the core romances that can be defined as romances or just sex and some casual encounters- choosing not to "try out" the dalish maiden defines your char as much as trying her (or him).
Also the whole "triangle" is gone where characters approach you and force a decision-
Probably taken out because of another bioware fatal flaw in their decision to remove the "persuade/intimidate" options in the game.

Yeah I am for Artistic Intregrity and B-Ware writing awesome Stories/Characters but the issue is when they drastically take away the players Urgency and slowly remove more and more of the players Choice until you find yourself playing a very Non Bioware game "Little to No Player Choice and a lot of Railroading" like Dragon Age 2.

[In Exile]

You don't have to like the game, but this sex object stuff is really over thought and finds issues that aren't there. The devs wanted to stay faithful to the character and offer players the chance to bang a lot of skeezy women like he's said to do, so they put that in. Does every random piece of ass he gets really need to be that dynamic?

The book is badly written and objectifies women isn't really a defence. I mean, go on believing whatever you believe, but that's not really a defence. 

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

It's also a LOT easier to do sex scenes for the witcher since geralt is geralt.

You don't make your own character. The sex scenes would be along the lines and flavor fitting that characters personality. Which is defined from the source material as well as the games.

@bobzilla-
I totally feel that. Especially since I'm DAO they were able to make one of the most fantastically well written characters in gaming history- namely loghain.
And they had still enough options and player control to have a deep sense of immersion despite it not being sandbox.
There is a reason I feel many people connect to their wardens over any other protagonist characters in recent bioware games (including Shepard).

I think the warden is the last bioware character fans can feel they truly "own" in full. Dai is a step in the right direction but the dialogue selection not being layed out in full I feel plays into this a lot.

[Colonelkillabee]

The book is badly written and objectifies women isn't really a defence. I mean, go on believing whatever you believe, but that's not really a defence. 

Neither is making such statements about books you haven't even read. And this objectifying women thing because you can have sex with them thing is bull shiza. Especially when the books aren't at all like that.