1820 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

True.  The last two pages have just been gross, though, so it got me a little riled up.

 

In my defense, I did say both sides would benefit from this.

 

I am interested in hearing more about how you think that men are objectified in almost every single game.  I don't see that at all, but I'm willing to hear your thoughts on it.

Er, I said earlier. The nameless droves of men that you routinely kill in almost every videogame. You literally violate them with violence. It's permissible to destroy them. There is no need for concern for them at all. Their feelings, agency, experiences, you don't need to care about any of them, and you're honestly not meant to.

[Colonelkillabee]

snip

While you do have a point about change in our society, our society has already laid the groundwork for natural change to come in entertainment fields. Women are taking up spaces in gaming a lot more than in the past, same for minorities, because the game developers want to include them, and because more and more of them are becoming a part of the actual gaming industry.

 

We're already seeing change come now. There's not much need to do anything more beyond support what games you like, and don't buy the ones you don't.

[Panda]

No... what it means is that I understand that these things are just for entertainment, and if I can get that despite how gross the male treatment is by your logic, you should be able to do the same in reverse.

 

I didn't switch topics, I showed my point with an example. Common place in debating.

 

Both issues are actually same in topic of devs not writing enough female characters in the games.

 

I don't have any problem killing things in the games cause they don't have genders in the moment of battle. Enemy is enemy.

 

I want more female enemies but I doubt any of the people here seriously think male characters are misstreated cause you kill them more than enemies in games where you don't even get many female characters. I mean just freaking demand more female characters in the game like female gamers do as well if you want there to be more equal gender killing ratio for god sakes.

[pdusen]

I'm just thankful that everyone has at least two options, personally.

[Colonelkillabee]

Um... if killing any gender in any game is offensive in any manner, then why play these types of games in the first place?

 

Maybe the offended parties are better off playing games such as the Sims, Tetris, Plants vs Zombies, etc...?

Indeed. Plenty of games out there for everyone really, without trying to make developers do this or that.

 

I don't enjoy listening to Lil Wayne talk about eating ***** or nikki minaj talking about her big ass, so I listen to Metallica or Mos Def.

[daveliam]

Er, I said earlier. The nameless droves of men that you routinely kill in almost every videogame. You literally violate them with violence. It's permissible to destroy them. There is no need for concern for them at all. Their feelings, agency, experiences, you don't need to care about any of them, and you're honestly not meant to.

 

Sorry.  I read "objectified" and interpreted it as "sexualized".  That was my confusion. 

 

I totally agree with your point.  There need to be more female goons and female villains in games as well.  If someone made that thread (which someone did a few months ago), I would (and did) support that idea.

 

I see the parallels:  men are objectified as meat-bags to kill and women are objectified as sex-objects to lust after.  But just because one complains about one of those issues, it doesn't make them a hypocrite by not directly complaining about the other as well.  Both conversations are important and have their place.  This conversation was about sexualized females.  The dismissal of these posters' complaints by using the male objectification as a tool to discredit them was blatant and lazy.  Particularly when one of those posters then went on to admit that he didn't even care about male objectification. 

[Ynqve]

Um... if killing any gender in any game is offensive in any manner, then why play these types of games in the first place?

 

Maybe the offended parties are better off playing games such as the Sims, Tetris, Plants vs Zombies, etc...?

 

You have no idea how many character's I've murdered in the Sims. 

 

"Yes, go for a swim. That's it, use the trampoline! Ooops, I accidentally removed the ladder. What are you going to do now, little Sim? Muahahahhahahaha" 

[SnakeCode]

And yet you used it as a way to belittle posters who disagreed with you. I get that you weren't 100 % serious with everything you posted, but I'm with daveliam. I thought it was disrespectful. As I said, I think the issues with the way we portray the legions of nameless goons that only exist to get slaughtered is an important discussion to have. But it has nothing to do with female characters and how they're over sexualized. You can talk about how these nameless goons are a symbol of a destructive male gender role, and thus connect it to the discussion about sexism. But that's not really what you guys were talking about, was it? 

I don't believe I belittled anyone in this thread, and if I did that was certainly not my intent.

 

But again, where was this lecture when people were belittling the OP? 

 

Oh, and funnily enough the sexualization of women ISN'T even what this thread is about. It was a guy complaining (rightly or wrongly) about how (he felt) men have the short end of the stick romance wise. He was attacked and the thread was then hijacked and became about how women have it worse in gaming. 

 

Also, I believe the word you're looking for is disposable, not destructive.

[Panda]

For those who are offended that majority of people you kill in video games are male, you have two options:

 

1) Demand more female enemies and less male enemies in the games.

2) Demand that all violence in the games stop.

 

That's no-brainer for me.

 

And if you are into this one just for joke, then stop bothering me thanks.

[Colonelkillabee]

Both issues are actually same in topic of devs not writing enough female characters in the games.

 

I don't have any problem killing things in the games cause they don't have genders in the moment of battle. Enemy is enemy.

 

I want more female enemies but I doubt any of the people here seriously think male characters are misstreated cause you kill them more than enemies in games where you don't even get many female characters. I mean just freaking demand more female characters in the game like female gamers do as well if you want there to be more equal gender killing ratio for god sakes.

I DON'T WANT THERE TO BE MORE EQUAL GENDER KILLING...

 

The point was that equality of gender in these kind of roles doesn't at all matter. And people not seeing them as mistreated is just typical societal double standards really.

[LOLandStuff]

You have no idea how many character's I've murdered in the Sims. 

 

"Yes, go for a swim. That's it, use the trampoline! Ooops, I accidentally removed the ladder. What are you going to do now, little Sim? Muahahahhahahaha" 

 

It can't be helped.

 

They basically exist just to make them miserable.

[Ynqve]

I don't believe I belittled anyone in this thread, and if I did that was certainly not my intent.

 

But again, where was this lecture when people were belittling the OP? 

 

Oh, and funnily enough the sexualization of women ISN'T even what this thread is about. It was a guy complaining (rightly or wrongly) about how (he felt) men have the short end of the stick romance wise. He was attacked and the thread was then hijacked and became about how women have it worse in gaming. 

 

Also, I believe the word you're looking for is disposable, not destructive.

 

I have no idea how the thread got hijacked, and honestly I don't care. Point was that it had nothing to do with the current discussion. And I'm pretty sure I meant destructive. "Disposable gender role" doesn't really make sense xD

[Panda]

I DON'T WANT THERE TO BE MORE EQUAL GENDER KILLING...

 

The point was that equality of gender in these kind of roles doesn't at all matter. And people not seeing them as mistreated is just typical societal double standards really.

 

I want there to be more equal gender killing.

 

I want female characters to be mistreated as horribly as these poor nameless male characters you are talking about.

 

I want that mistreatment cause to me that isn't misstreatment. Just bunch of more male characters who are strong and someone you have to beat? That's opposite of mistreatment. Where is my equal gender killing? Where are the poor nameless female characters just waiting for PC to misstreat them and kill them? Yes please, sign me up.

[Fandango]

Sorry.  I read "objectified" and interpreted it as "sexualized".  That was my confusion. 
 
I totally agree with your point.  There need to be more female goons and female villains in games as well.  If someone made that thread (which someone did a few months ago), I would (and did) support that idea.
 
I see the parallels:  men are objectified as meat-bags to kill and women are objectified as sex-objects to lust after.  But just because one complains about one of those issues, it doesn't make them a hypocrite by not directly complaining about the other as well.  Both conversations are important and have their place.  This conversation was about sexualized females.  The dismissal of these posters' complaints by using the male objectification as a tool to discredit them was blatant and lazy.  Particularly when one of those posters then went on to admit that he didn't even care about male objectification.

Or just maybe people could stop faffing endlessly over these non-issues! That some games have sexy (or even over-sexualised) male\female characters is absolutely fine. That some games require the player slaughter a bunch of male goons is absolutely fine. That some games are developed with a particular demographic in mind is absolutely fine. Come on now!

[Colonelkillabee]

I want there to be more equal gender killing.

 

I want female characters to be mistreated as horribly as these poor nameless male characters you are talking about.

 

I want that mistreatment cause to me that isn't misstreatment. Just bunch of more male characters who are strong and someone you have to beat? That's opposite of mistreatment. Where is my equal gender killing? Where are the poor nameless female characters just waiting for PC to misstreat them and kill them? Yes please, sign me up.

 

LOL there's always the Witcher.... they're not killed, but lol apparently people think they're mistreated, so there you go.

 

Anyway, that's enough on that point from me for now. I don't think having equal gender killing is realistic, because it doesn't match up with real life. Only reason I brought up male deaths is because it shows that these roles serve a purpose and it's all to entertain, and doesn't matter. Especially when there are well written male and female characters in gaming for people to play.

[SnakeCode]

I have no idea how the thread got hijacked, and honestly I don't care. Point was that it had nothing to do with the current discussion. And I'm pretty sure I meant destructive. "Disposable gender role" doesn't really make sense xD

Yes it does. All a gender role is, are things considered socially appropriate for people of a specific sex. Disposability certainly fits in to that.

[TevinterSupremacist]

No one who is concerned with equal representation is  a hypocrite for trying to tackle a single issue of it, that happens to face on one gender or the other. This is perfectly ok , you don't have to deal with every issue at the same time, at all times.

 

Hypocrisy starts coming into play when people try to say that games are less accessible or user-friendly to women than to men, because of mostly treating them like sex-objects, while at the same time the game treats men mostly as meat-bags for kill but this somehow doesn't play a role in user-friendliness/accessibility.

 

It's ok to focus on one issue, but saying that it favors the one over the other requires you to either be blind or hypocritical.

[Ynqve]

Or just maybe people could stop faffing endlessly over these non-issues! That some games have sexy (or even over-sexualised) male\female characters is absolutely fine. That some games require the player slaughter a bunch of male goons is absolutely fine. That some games are made with a particular demographic in mind is absolutely fine. Come on now!

 

They aren't non-issues. Just because you can't see them it doesn't mean they don't exist. 

[Ynqve]

Yes it does. All a gender role is, are things considered socially appropriate for people of a specific sex. Disposability certainly fits in to that.

 

Aye, and desposability is a destructive aspect of a male gender role. That's my point. 

[Colonelkillabee]

No one who is concerned with equal representation is  a hypocrite for trying to tackle a single issue of it, that happens to face on one gender or the other. This is perfectly ok , you don't have to deal with every issue at the same time, at all times.

I called Panda a hypocrite for seeing females as being objectified, but not males. At the time she said she didn't see it that way, and has repeated that sentiment despite claiming to want equal gender killing.

[Fandango]

They aren't non-issues. Just because you can't see them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

And what is it that you think I cant see here Ynqve?

[Colonelkillabee]

And what is it that you think I cant see here Ynqve?

That entertainment has to be taken super super serial.