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#851
Hanako Ikezawa

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Could you explain more about how you're not represented?  Just so we can have a discussion on actual grounds rather than me trying to guess why you're not represented.  

Basically: 

 

Heterosexual LIs: 4

Homosexual LIs: 2

Bisexual LIs: 1

Pansexual LIs: 1

Asexual Lis: 0 

Demisexual LIs: 0

other sexualities: 0

 

I am in one of the ones that has 0. 

 

Even if a character is demisexual, they would still be in the straight, bi, gay category based of what Inquisitor they are attracted to

Not necessarily. Unless you mean that a pansexual is still bisexual since they are available to both male and female characters. Besides, any asexuality or demisexuality is seen as I said at best headcanon where the writer said "That's fine if you want". It's a fortunate byproduct of the writing, not the intent of the writer when the character was written. 



#852
Colonelkillabee

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They don't usually run around in nothing but a loincloth, making sexy poses.

I suspect that's because that's not what is necessarily considered sexy for men. When advertisers are putting men in poses vs females, you'll notice we have more men in business suits and whatnot than women.

 

Probably because again, part of the appeal of a man's sexy is what he does. A sexy man is a man of action. That's also why you see them in commercials running shirtless while playing sports. Not just to show off the ripples of his muscles.



#853
AshesEleven

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Basically: 

 

Heterosexual LIs: 4

Homosexual LIs: 2

Bisexual LIs: 1

Pansexual LIs: 1

Asexual Lis: 0 

Demisexual LIs: 0

other sexualities: 0

 

I am in one of the ones that has 0. 

 

 

 

 

Well they've said they're looking into asexual romances, they just want to get it right, though you CAN have a relationship with Dorian without sex (I think?   Right?)

 

And if I understand demisexuality (because to be perfectly honest I've never really encountered it and I'm now looking it up to get a better understanding), that can be interpreted.  I'm not sure how everyone being playersexual would somehow represent demisexuals, since it seems that being a demisexual is about having sex with people you connect with very strongly emotionally, and it says nothing about one's preferences.  



#854
Abyss108

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I suspect that's because that's not what is necessarily considered sexy for men. When advertisers are putting men in poses vs females, you'll notice we have more men in business suits and whatnot than women.

 

Probably because again, part of the appeal of a man's sexy is what he does. A sexy man is a man of action. That's also why you see them in commercials running shirtless while playing sports. Not just to show off the ripples of his muscles.

 

Yes there are differences, but women still appreciate seeing men with significantly less clothing. Your second paragraph shows that! :) I never said a sexy pose for a man is the same pose as it would be for a women. But it's also not the pose men in games are usually put in. 

 

Usually, "sexy characters" just means the women walk around in bikinis, whilst the men are fully clothed. Or if they do design them all to be attractive, the camera will hug the female characters a lot more than the men (think Miranda from Mass Effect, my straight female Shepard spent entire scenes staring at her ass, but not at the asses of any of the male characters)



#855
Hanako Ikezawa

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Well they've said they're looking into asexual romances, they just want to get it right, though you CAN have a relationship with Dorian without sex (I think?   Right?)

 

And if I understand demisexuality (because to be perfectly honest I've never really encountered it and I'm now looking it up to get a better understanding), that can be interpreted.  I'm not sure how everyone being playersexual would somehow represent demisexuals, since it seems that being a demisexual is about having sex with people you connect with very strongly emotionally, and it says nothing about one's preferences.  

Gaider also said later that about as far as they think they'll go with that is romances where sex isn't required. So that isn't the same as having an asexual character as an LI. Basically what we have now is as far as they are going according to him. 

 

Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with only having sex with people they have a strong connection with since there are those who still have casual sex despite being demi. It is they do not become sexually attracted to a person until they develop a strong connection. Once that happens, things like gender don't apply since they are attracted to the person because they are that person. To bring that back to playersexual, ignoring the whole thing about it being available for the player to see the character as they want(and thus is akin to a Schrodinger paradox: representation for everybody yet nobody) it resulted in a couple characters becoming attracted to Hawke because of Hawke rather than them being the right gender. Not that it matters since playersexuality doesn't exist anymore with every LI but Sebastian in DA2 being declared as bisexual. 



#856
Colonelkillabee

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Yes there are differences, but women still appreciate seeing men with significantly less clothing. Your second paragraph shows that! :) I never said a sexy pose for a man is the same pose as it would be for a women. But it's also not the pose men in games are usually put in. 

 

Usually, "sexy characters" just means the women walk around in bikinis, whilst the men are fully clothed. Or if they do design them all to be attractive, the camera will hug the female characters a lot more than the men (think Miranda from Mass Effect, my straight female Shepard spent entire scenes staring at her ass, but not at the asses of any of the male characters)

I do see your point, and honestly games if we compared men to women do tend to show sexy women more, one because the audience, and two...

 

Lets be real, women are a lot more aesthetically pleasing compared to men... I think even straight women realize that when they look at art and look at how elegant and flowing the female form is compared to the rigid stiff male figure with our harsh angles and so on, which I imagine isn't the easiest thing to transfer accurately on media. That's a small point though since I doubt that's actually stopping them in this day and age.

 

Though this point about Mass effect was brought up before, and Addai and others did bring up there's a lot of examples where they do this for men, like Kaidan apparently. But that's Bioware. Bioware's obviously different than other developers.

 

To sum it up, I agree there seems to be more sexualization of women in gaming than men. I personally think that's fine though, and think there's room for that while also promoting better written female characters. I'm sure you do of course as well and you weren't saying otherwise.

 

I just think the focus should be less about this group or that, and the quality of characters and the writing in general.



#857
AshesEleven

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Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with only having sex with people they have a strong connection with since there are those who still have casual sex despite being demi. It is they do not become sexually attracted to a person until they develop a strong connection. Once that happens, things like gender don't apply since they are attracted to the person because they are that person. To bring that back to playersexual, ignoring the whole thing about it being available for the player to see the character as they want(and thus is akin to a Schrodinger paradox: representation for everybody yet nobody) it resulted in a couple characters becoming attracted to Hawke because of Hawke rather than them being the right gender. Not that it matters since playersexuality doesn't exist anymore with every LI but Sebastian in DA2 being declared as bisexual. 

 

That sounds pretty dope.  Would be cool to see something like that, though again I don't think you need to have playersexual characters to do it.  I also don't think it's feasible to represent literally every sexuality, for obvious reasons.  You sort of have to prioritize the most popular ones, unfortunately.  



#858
Hanako Ikezawa

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That sounds pretty dope.  Would be cool to see something like that, though again I don't think you need to have playersexual characters to do it.  I also don't think it's feasible to represent literally every sexuality, for obvious reasons.  You sort of have to prioritize the most popular ones, unfortunately.  

Oh, you certainly don't need playersexual characters to do it. I was just saying that when playersexual system was in place some of the LIs got really close.

Yeah, and unfortunately that means people like me will always draw the short straw. But that was my point. You said everybody gets representation with set sexuality when that is not the case. It's just an unfortunate result of there only being so much room for romance content. 



#859
Abyss108

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I do see your point, and honestly games if we compared men to women do tend to show sexy women more, one because the audience, and two...

 

Lets be real, women are a lot more aesthetically pleasing compared to men... I think even straight women realize that when they look at art and look at how elegant and flowing the female form is compared to the rigid stiff male figure with our harsh angles and so on, which I imagine isn't the easiest thing to transfer accurately on media. That's a small point though since I doubt that's actually stopping them in this day and age.

 

Though this point about Mass effect was brought up before, and Addai and others did bring up there's a lot of examples where they do this for men, like Kaidan apparently. But that's Bioware. Bioware's obviously different than other developers.

 

To sum it up, I agree there seems to be more sexualization of women in gaming than men. I personally think that's fine though, and think there's room for that while also promoting better written female characters. I'm sure you do of course as well and you weren't saying otherwise.

 

I just think the focus should be less about this group or that, and the quality of characters and the writing in general.

 

No, I don't agree that having more sexualization of women than men is OK. If it's OK to do to one sex, it's OK to do to the other.

 

As a straight female, I would prefer to stare at men, women aren't "aesthetically pleasing" for me at all... I'm sure they are pleasing to straight males, or lesbian women, or anyone who is bisexual, but not to me. Give me some pretty men please! :)

 

I can't comment on Kaiden, as he was dead by ME3 in my game! I'd be very surprised if the camera did that in a normal cutscene.... (during a romance cutscene where you've shown interest in him is different)

 

Anyway, one of the main reasons I love Dragon Age is that it doesn't do this type of stuff, so yay for Bioware! 


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#860
AshesEleven

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Oh, you certainly don't need playersexual characters to do it. I was just saying that when playersexual system was in place some of the LIs got really close.
Yeah, and unfortunately that means people like me will always draw the short straw. But that was my point. You said everybody gets representation with set sexuality when that is not the case. It's just an unfortunate result of there only being so much room for romance content.


You're right, I guess what I meant is the majority, or people of the three "traditional" sexualities, get represented, which I prefer to the whole "no one is really represented".

#861
Colonelkillabee

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No, I don't agree that having more sexualization of women than men is OK. If it's OK to do to one sex, it's OK to do to the other.

 

As a straight female, I would prefer to stare at men, women aren't "aesthetically pleasing" for me at all... I'm sure they are pleasing to straight males, or lesbian women, or anyone who is bisexual, but not to me. Give me some pretty men please! :)

 

I can't comment on Kaiden, as he was dead by ME3 in my game! I'd be very surprised if the camera did that in a normal cutscene.... (during a romance cutscene where you've shown interest in him is different)

 

Anyway, one of the main reasons I love Dragon Age is that it doesn't do this type of stuff, so yay for Bioware! 

 

As a straight male, I have no problem admitting if a dude is aesthetically pleasing in art or not ;) It's not the same as sexual attraction.

 

I also didn't mean that men couldn't be sexualized, only that it was fine that women happen to be sexualized more, because it's entertainment and it happens because people with free will decided they wanted more sexy women in their game than dudes with their shirts off, etc.



#862
Panda

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As a straight male, I have no problem admitting if a dude is aesthetically pleasing in art or not ;) It's not the same as sexual attraction.

 

I also didn't mean that men couldn't be sexualized, only that it was fine that women happen to be sexualized more, because it's entertainment and it happens because people with free will decided they wanted more sexy women in their game than dudes with their shirts off, etc.

 

Well as straight female I also there is times when female characters are aesthetically pleasing. But I doubt they are the times most of straight male gamers think that. Like I like women in heavy armor and uniforms most, short haired, rather muscular etc.  Long haired women in revealing armor or dresses aren't my aesthetic of female characters. 

 

I still think there is too many sexualised women in games since it's pretty much used as default. I would want to see different kind of female characters as well. I think the current main demographic of games is more restricting than allowing to devs in terms of character creation.


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#863
Abyss108

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As a straight male, I have no problem admitting if a dude is aesthetically pleasing in art or not ;) It's not the same as sexual attraction.

 

I also didn't mean that men couldn't be sexualized, only that it was fine that women happen to be sexualized more, because it's entertainment and it happens because people with free will decided they wanted more sexy women in their game than dudes with their shirts off, etc.

 

I still don't find the female form pleasing in anyway, and prefer the male. I could just be a weirdo in that sense! :)

 

People with free will can create whatever they want. And then I'm free to criticize it like this! :) The argument "people can create what they want" could be applied to anything made though, no matter how innocent or problematic it is. 

 

I'd also point out that things like "make the characters more/less sexy" are usually not because the writers decided that, but because marketing/investors decided it.



#864
AresKeith

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Not necessarily. Unless you mean that a pansexual is still bisexual since they are available to both male and female characters. Besides, any asexuality or demisexuality is seen as I said at best headcanon where the writer said "That's fine if you want". It's a fortunate byproduct of the writing, not the intent of the writer when the character was written. 

 

Pretty much that, the same would happen with asexuals and demisexuals. Iron Bull is pansexual but he's still a bisexual romance option because he's attracted to a both genders. Regardless of what DG said Merrill is an example of a demisexual character who's also a bisexual romance 

 

Asexuals and demisexual can also be a straight romance or a gay romance option 



#865
Colonelkillabee

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I still don't find the female form pleasing in anyway, and prefer the male. I could just be a weirdo in that sense! :)

 

People with free will can create whatever they want. And then I'm free to criticize it like this! :) The argument "people can create what they want" could be applied to anything made though, no matter how innocent or problematic it is. 

 

I'd also point out that things like "make the characters more/less sexy" are usually not because the writers decided that, but because marketing/investors decided it.

It's not weird at all. I just look at this like a medium of art, and so while I'm not at all sexually attracted to men, I could for instance tell you if a shirtless picture of Solas was a good work of art or not. Actually, I could do this in real life too. George Clooney, Jason Momoa, obviously very good looking men.

 

But anyway, no matter. It wasn't much of a point anyway, and even though a lot of women say this too, it's just opinion.

 

As for that last part, I can see that.. it explains why they ruined Ashley and shoved her in a skirt and high heels. Even though she's a goddamn marine.



#866
Ynqve

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As a straight male, I have no problem admitting if a dude is aesthetically pleasing in art or not ;) It's not the same as sexual attraction.

 

I also didn't mean that men couldn't be sexualized, only that it was fine that women happen to be sexualized more, because it's entertainment and it happens because people with free will decided they wanted more sexy women in their game than dudes with their shirts off, etc.

 

This! I'm straight but I have no problem finding other women beautiful or aesthetically pleasing. For example: Cassandra is hotter than the sun. If I were a dude, I'd be all over her. Well, her and Dorian. 


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#867
Laurelinde

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Lets be real, women are a lot more aesthetically pleasing compared to men... I think even straight women realize that when they look at art and look at how elegant and flowing the female form is compared to the rigid stiff male figure with our harsh angles and so on, which I imagine isn't the easiest thing to transfer accurately on media. That's a small point though since I doubt that's actually stopping them in this day and age.

 

 

'Women's bodies are innately more aesthetically appealing' is straight-up a cultural/social construct, though.  It is in no way any kind of objective truth or fact.  It has not even been universally true in all cultures throughout history.  I hate to trot out the Ancient Greeks again because they get used as an example for everything, but they absolutely had at least as much of a respect/love/admiration for the male form as the female form, and it shows in their artwork and statuary.  

 

It's a belief that feeds on itself.  People believe women's bodies are more attractive/better suited to appealing to their audience -> women's bodies are used as decoration/sex appeal more often than men's -> people are accustomed to seeing women as aesthetically appealing/decorative -> people believe women's bodies are more attractive.  Combine that with, over the last few centuries in Western culture, a society where women were not encouraged to express sexuality or sexual desire, and many male relationships, even platonic ones, became suspect.  The imprisonment of people like Oscar Wilde and Alan Turing for 'sodomy'/homosexuality, the phenomenon of adding 'no (pejorative word for homosexual here)' after expressing an opinion about another man, the use of 'gay' and other words as pejoratives, used especially towards boys when I was growing up, the disdain that accompanies anything perceived to be feminine as weak, vapid, brainless and lesser - it all adds up to a situation where any kind of positive expression by a man about male bodies is strongly discouraged.  

 

The same wasn't true for me as a girl; I did get asked if I was a lesbian when I'd say I didn't care if I got married, and didn't want children, but it was never the same kind of stigma and bullying as the 'effeminate' boys at school got.  I can't ever recall meeting a woman who was uncomfortable expressing an opinion on another woman being pretty or beautiful, because there's no automatic assumption that the attraction is sexual (which probably makes life more difficult for lesbians and bi women since it's like they don't exist, but as I have only ever felt attracted to men I can't confirm that).  I have met multiple men who refuse to acknowledge other men as handsome, even as a thought exercise.  I think this is changing, again, but it hasn't totally gone away.

 

Edit: removing a filtered phrase and trying to explain it some other way!


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#868
Ynqve

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I wouldn't say that I think female bodies are more aesthetically pleasing. I do however think that women tend to have nicer/more interesting clothing. And that's completely due to cultural aspects. It's a shame, because men who dress well are super attractive. 

 

There's a reason why people look at the women at red carpet events. 


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#869
Liveshiptrader

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'Women's bodies are innately more aesthetically appealing' is straight-up a cultural/social construct, though. It is in no way any kind of objective truth or fact. y!

No it's actually a fact, like so many things are tastes are heavily influenced by procreation, women are judged more for there appearance because there health is most important as they have the most strenuous role in carrying the child.

It's also the reason why older women are less prevalent in the media.

#870
XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX

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Yep.  To be fair, it goes both ways, I've also known gay men who wouldn't get involved with a bi guy.  Hell, my last boyfriend, after I got married, said that if he'd realized I was bi at first he never would have dated me. This was after we had a six year-long relationship that was mostly good, and we're still friends.


Yeah, both straight & gay people can be hostile towards bisexuals, my "gold star" lesbian ex girlfriend never fully trusted me thx to my sexuality, kinda ironic that she cheated while i was faithful :mellow:


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#871
Laurelinde

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No it's actually a fact, like so many things are tastes are heavily influenced by procreation, women are judged more for there appearance because there health is most important as they have the most strenuous role in carrying the child.

It's also the reason why older women are less prevalent in the media.

 

Neither of those proves women's bodies are innately more attractive, it only attempts to explain why more priority is placed on attractiveness in a woman.  Nor does it explain how and why 'preferred' looks and body types/shapes have varied so wildly across time and space.  A 15-year-old size zero body is probably less physically fit to carry and bear a child than a size 10 twenty-five-year-old, for example.  In Renaissance Italy, the fashion was for women to pluck the hairs on their forehead.  Today that would look to us like a woman was balding.  In the 1920s the fashion was for women to have very slim, boyish figures with flat chests and narrow hips, and women who fit that mould were feted as attractive.  Other times, hourglass or pear shapes have been sought after.  Even today, people's tastes about what constitutes a beautiful or the most beautiful woman can vary widely.  

 

How healthy a person is perceived to look, consciously or unconsciously, does play a role in attraction, but it is not the only factor.  Evolutionary psychology is largely speculation in any case.  

 

As for older women, since most human interaction is not undertaken with the express intention of producing a child as a result, there is no earthly reason why older women (or anyone else) should be shown less.  People aren't just commodities, and women aren't worthless once they go through menopause.


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#872
BobZilla84

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I think i may be in the minority here but I love The Witcher games because Gerault's is a notorious playboy in the Novels/Stories which is funny as hell but in the games CDPR gave the player the Ability to be true to Geraults Character and sleep with every woman in sight or be a faithful lover with Triss he doesnt have to sleep with the prostitutes he is defined by the player.

Back on Topic:
Cassandra is a example of great Character writing she is a real Bad A## but her having a sensitive side was awesome she loves slaying Dragons and being read poetry by her Qunari Lover Adaar "My Inquisitor".

Joesphine is a fine way to make a proper NPC romance she is lovely & charming she is sweet and instantly likable and thats why I loved her being devoted to her family oh and her Dwarf lover Cadash"My Inquisitor"helps her family as well.
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#873
crimzontearz

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Well, she is passionate about finding non-violent ways to solve problems after she was traumatized by accidentally killing a friend while a bard.

And it is pretty epic how she interrupts the duel with you and that Antivan noble.

sexually/physically passionate


Not passionate about diplomacy.

#874
Hanako Ikezawa

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You're right, I guess what I meant is the majority, or people of the three "traditional" sexualities, get represented, which I prefer to the whole "no one is really represented".

I can understand that. 

Meanwhile I'm on the other side of the fence. The illusion of representation is better than none whatsoever. 

 

 

Pretty much that, the same would happen with asexuals and demisexuals. Iron Bull is pansexual but he's still a bisexual romance option because he's attracted to a both genders. Regardless of what DG said Merrill is an example of a demisexual character who's also a bisexual romance 

 

Asexuals and demisexual can also be a straight romance or a gay romance option 

True, but I'm referring to more the actual orientations rather than how the gameplay would classify them. For example despite The Iron Bull being treated as bisexual in the game, we know that he is actually really pansexual. 

Unfortunately, despite how well she fits WoG is that she is "just bisexual". Gaider was very adamant about that point. :(



#875
Colonelkillabee

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Yea I won't lie, I don't get the difference between bisexual and pansexual at all.

 

I see on google it says people attracted to any sex or gender identity... hows that different?