1820 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

No, although you disagree with me on old women in the the Witcher (everyone of them has exactly same model as well so variety, where?).

They have certain models that repeat, yes, but there is a middle aged townswoman as well as the elderly woman. TW2 expanded this so that the older women do have real variety and interesting character models. The Witcher has some of the best character modeling in RPG's, especially in TW2, so your criticisms are really, really off base.

Spoiler

Witcher 1:

 

Witcher 2:

 
I don't find any shots of them, but in TW2 there are the older women in the village like the chief's wife and older female innkeepers as well as a middle aged madam. These all have different personalities, too, some positive, neutral or negative- as good characters should.

Even the "sexualized" characters have really cool character designs. Triss has some of the best female concept art I've ever seen.

 

I do want variety. I want sexy and non-sexy female characters. I want one's that are like Merrill, Isabela, Cassanda etc. I don't want sexualised one's. And I don't want what I want (that sounds weird but in sense you are talking about).
 
Although you can't see my points don't claim I'm going with my preferences here cause I'm not. If I were the outcome would be quite different.

 Wait... Isabela is not sexualized? I think you've got an arbitrary mindset and it's actually hard to follow what you're criticizing and what's "acceptable." Except Bioware= good and everything else bad.
 

Sexualised characters pretty much mean not well-written characters so better would be cut those things from games.

That's... what?

[Panda]

They have certain models that repeat, yes, but there is a middle aged townswoman as well as the elderly woman. TW2 expanded this so that the older women do have real variety and interesting character models. The Witcher has some of the best character modeling in RPG's, especially in TW2, so your criticisms are really, really off base.

I don't find any shots of them, but in TW2 there are the older women in the village like the chief's wife and older female innkeepers as well as a middle aged madam. These all have different personalities, too, some positive, neutral or negative- as good characters should.

Even the "sexualized" characters have really cool character designs. Triss has some of the best female concept art I've ever seen.
 

 Wait... Isabela is not sexualized? I think you've got an arbitrary mindset and it's actually hard to follow what you're criticizing and what's "acceptable." Except Bioware= good and everything else bad.
 

That's... what?

 

I can't comment on game I don't know about. I already have said that good if Wither 2 has done better. Too bad Triss in my game didn't look like that.

 

Sexy doesn't meant sexualised. Isabela is sexy. Does how she is designed and animated go against her personality and environment?

 

No I have taken examples from Bioware's games as well. Mostly Mass Effect since I think they did poorer job in designing and animating female characters.

[Addai]

Sexy doesn't meant sexualised. Isabela is sexy. Does how she is designed and animated go against her personality and environment?

So you get to decide what an NPC's personality is, not the designer?

[Ynqve]

I think y'all are having a discussion about semantics. I don't think that sexualized means the same thing to Panda. And yes Panda, sexy does mean sexualized. Sexualized means that you've added a sexual dimension to something, it doesn't say if it's bad or good. 

[Panda]

I think y'all are having a discussion about semantics. I don't think that sexualized means the same thing to Panda. And yes Panda, sexy does mean sexualized. Sexualized means that you've added a sexual dimension to something, it doesn't say if it's bad or good. 

 

Words when used in different contexts and by different people might be defined differently. I have defined what I mean sexualised when the talk is about video games and when I use the word I use it by definition I know about.

 

I don't think anyone can argue against that female characters are portrayed more sexy and attractive in games even when it means that their design and animation would go against their personality and environment than male characters. They are dressed in more revealing clothes as well. Also gender ratio of the games is skewed often to 5:2 male/female characters, sometimes even more.

 

And when devs try to change this thing people have problem with it. Not sexy enough, not conventionally attractive, too many female character etc.

 

I can give one example and then I'm out at least for while, I'm tired on repeating same things and being misunderstood:

 

THis is male robot in the game:

 

 

Female robot in same game:

 

 

Notice how female robot is still made human like and attractive when male robot doesn't look like human at all.

 

I could continue this by posting half human-half animal pictures as well etc. to point out differences but maybe this is okay.

[BobZilla84]

Panda there can be well written unique and sexy characters heres a few.
Mass Effect Series:
Mass Effect 1 Ashley Williams
Jack

Dragon Age Series:
Morrigan
Leliana
Aveline
Cassandra

The Witcher Series:
Triss

I loved Miranda as well as Jack and I hated what they did to Ashley in Mass Effect 3 and I didnt care for Isabella or Merrill in Dragon Age 2 you see my point is everyone has different tastes.

[Lebanese Dude]

Panda there can be well written unique and sexy characters heres a few.
Mass Effect Series:
Mass Effect 1 Ashley Williams
Jack

Dragon Age Series:
Morrigan
Leliana
Aveline
Cassandra

The Witcher Series:
Triss

I loved Miranda as well as Jack and I hated what they did to Ashley in Mass Effect 3 and I didnt care for Isabella or Merrill in Dragon Age 2 you see my point is everyone has different tastes.

 

I find the lack of men in your list disturbing.

[BobZilla84]

I find the lack of men in your list disturbing.

Oh I can probably make a list with Attractive guys thats well written as well if you would like.

[Lebanese Dude]

Oh I can probably make a list with Attractive guys thats well written as well if you would like.

 

I was just pointing out that male characters are being left out

[Ynqve]

Words when used in different contexts and by different people might be defined differently. I have defined what I mean sexualised when the talk is about video games and when I use the word I use it by definition I know about.

 

I don't think anyone can argue against that female characters are portrayed more sexy and attractive in games even when it means that their design and animation would go against their personality and environment than male characters. They are dressed in more revealing clothes as well. Also gender ratio of the games is skewed often to 5:2 male/female characters, sometimes even more.

 

And when devs try to change this thing people have problem with it. Not sexy enough, not conventionally attractive, too many female character etc.

 

I can give one example and then I'm out at least for while, I'm tired on repeating same things and being misunderstood:

 

THis is male robot in the game:

 

Spoiler

 

Female robot in same game:

 

Spoiler

 

Notice how female robot is still made human like and attractive when male robot doesn't look like human at all.

 

I could continue this by posting half human-half animal pictures as well etc. to point out differences but maybe this is okay.

 

Alright. Stop it, right there!

 

There's no need to preach to me. Have I ever said anything to indicate that I'm one of those who don't get the problem with female representation? No. I'm tired of seeing over sexualized female characters when it's not called for. I don't want female characters to be used only as t&a. I want female characters to be characters first and female second. I want female characters to have the same range in personality and appearance as their male counterparts. And I've been quite vocal about how I feel.

 

Here's the thing. You can't make up your own definition of words. That's bad communication. Maybe you wouldn't have to repeat yourself so much if you just used the common definition of the word sexualized? Arguing about semantics is pointless, so let's not do that.

 

I'm in camp 'Sexualization isn't necessarily bad. Bad sexualization is bad', and nothing is going to change that.

[BobZilla84]

I was just pointing out that male characters are being left out

Oh yeah I know I was just messing with you.

[BobZilla84]

Male Mage Hawke/Fenris is the Best Romance in Dragon Age 2 in my very humble opinion.

[Panda]

Panda there can be well written unique and sexy characters heres a few.
Mass Effect Series:
Mass Effect 1 Ashley Williams
Jack

Dragon Age Series:
Morrigan
Leliana
Aveline
Cassandra

The Witcher Series:
Triss

I loved Miranda as well as Jack and I hated what they did to Ashley in Mass Effect 3 and I didnt care for Isabella or Merrill in Dragon Age 2 you see my point is everyone has different tastes.

 

Bioware in general does good job in writing female characters and I know what every has different tastes. Sometimes they have bumbs on unnecessarily sexualising them (from these I'd say Morrigan's outfit since it's cold in Ferelden Swamp so I don't think the design fits environment and kind Jack with her outfit as well though it kinda suits her though personality (it just looks very uncomfortable)). 

[Panda]

Alright. Stop it, right there!

 

There's no need to preach to me. Have I ever said anything to indicate that I'm one of those who don't get the problem with female representation? No. I'm tired of seeing over sexualized female characters when it's not called for. I don't want female characters to be used only as t&a. I want female characters to be characters first and female second. I want female characters to have the same range in personality and appearance as their male counterparts. And I've been quite vocal about how I feel.

 

Here's the thing. You can't make up your own definition of words. That's bad communication. Maybe you wouldn't have to repeat yourself so much if you just used the common definition of the word sexualized? Arguing about semantics is pointless, so let's not do that.

 

I'm in camp 'Sexualization isn't necessarily bad. Bad sexualization is bad', and nothing is going to change that.

 

Hmm I guess I could have made seperate post on that, the first paragraph was more of aimed to you when other in general was talking about what I'm talking about with these issues.

 

Words aren't anything set in stone which is why you first define the words so people stay in same page with you. I think that's how communication goes.. well at least in academic discussion ^^;

[Maverick_One]

Bioware in general does good job in writing female characters and I know what every has different tastes. Sometimes they have bumbs on unnecessarily sexualising them (from these I'd say Morrigan's outfit since it's cold in Ferelden Swamp so I don't think the design fits environment and kind Jack with her outfit as well though it kinda suits her though personality (it just looks very uncomfortable)). 

You mean she couldn't of wore it as a way to get my HoF to take one look at her and want to do the DR when she eventually offers, just to get some of that? Nor to make Alistair desire her if the HoF was a chick, or opposed to sleeping with her? Morrigan sexualizing herself would benefit her in regards to getting her way when it comes to the DR, would it not?

[Ynqve]

Hmm I guess I could have made seperate post on that, the first paragraph was more of aimed to you when other in general was talking about what I'm talking about with these issues.

 

Words aren't anything set in stone which is why you first define the words so people stay in same page with you. I think that's how communication goes.. well at least in academic discussion ^^;

 

Yes but this is the BSN. We're nowhere near having an academic discussion. xD

 

Which is why it's better to just use the common definition of the word. You can make the same arguments and people will have an easier time understanding you.

[BobZilla84]

Bioware in general does good job in writing female characters and I know what every has different tastes. Sometimes they have bumbs on unnecessarily sexualising them (from these I'd say Morrigan's outfit since it's cold in Ferelden Swamp so I don't think the design fits environment and kind Jack with her outfit as well though it kinda suits her though personality (it just looks very uncomfortable)).

Yeah but you can change Morrigans outfit to plain Mage Robes and Jacks outfit suits her personality and Character I never changed her outfit it just felt right to me unlike the unnecessary changes that Ashley underwent in Mass Effect 3.
Mass Effect 1 Phoenix Armor Ashley=Sexy
Mass Effect 3 Catsuit Ashley=Stupid

[Panda]

You mean she couldn't of wore it as a way to get my HoF to take one look at her and want to do the DR when she eventually offers, just to get some of that? Nor to make Alistair desire her if the HoF was a chick, or opposed to sleeping with her? Morrigan sexualizing herself would benefit her in regards to getting her way when it comes to the DR, would it not?

 

Well the thing is that she weared the outfit all the time and still wears it. It suits to her and her personality but I think it's bit fanservicey, it could have designed to be more warm taking in accord her environment.

 

Yes but this is the BSN. We're nowhere near having an academic discussion. xD

 

Which is why it's better to just use the common definition of the word. You can make the same arguments and people will have an easier time understanding you.

 

Common definition might still mean something different to people, especially when I have to translate the word in my native language and then wonder which translation person meant (most words have multiple translations). I was mainly talking about bad sexualisation. I could have used sexual objectification as well but the word seems to hold too much, hmm weight here, so I chose this one instead.

[Ynqve]

Common definition might still mean something different to people, especially when I have to translate the word in my native language and then wonder which translation person meant (most words have multiple translations). I was mainly talking about bad sexualisation. I could have used sexual objectification as well but the word seems to hold too much, hmm weight here, so I chose this one instead.

 

Oh I get that (I'm not a native speaker). But using the common definition is a way to reduce the risk of being misinterpreted. And I did get that you were talking about bad sexualization, but I can see why people raise some eyebrows when you say that sexy isn't sexualized when in fact it is. It's just that when you use the word sexy, you mean good sexualization. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

[Maverick_One]

Well the thing is that she weared the outfit all the time and still wears it. It suits to her and her personality but I think it's bit fanservicey, it could have designed to be more warm taking in accord her environment. 

With other female characters I could see this but this is Morrigan we are talking about the one who said.  "Men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: one, that she is weak, and two, that she finds him attractive."

[I present Chuck Bass]

You guys just sound like little children right now. Honestly I'm so tired of hearing about how women are treated in the game industry and how every women character is overly sexualized...it's rubbish. Let's be honest, many Bioware characters are just reflections of a certain "type" of a person in society. But this is a dragon age inquisition forum... Not a " let's complain about the treatment of women in the game industry forum". The fact is of the more prominent female characters, there is no problem with sexualization with Josephine,Cassansdra, Leliana, Sera, Scout Harding, Dagna, Mother Giselle, Fiona.... I could keep going. Yes vivienne shows of her curves to the max and cleavage.. And it goes well with her character. And yes Morrigan is almost naked up top, but she grew up away from common society in the wilds so she doesn't view the whole matter the same. Plus it also goes well with her character again....
Just like Iron bull being topless does his character justice.

It's one thing to complain and another to make the same points over and over again in different threads in a forum about a game that doesn't have this issues.

[Lady Lemonade]

I actually agree with panda that there is a difference between sexy and sexualized. Example: I think most people would agree that Elena Fisher from uncharted is a sexy woman. Yet the game does not sexualize her.

[Lebanese Dude]

Male Mage Hawke/Fenris is the Best Romance in Dragon Age 2 in my very humble opinion.

 

That's my opinion too, but on the rivalry path. The tension is just insane.

 

My favorite romance moment in Dragon Age as shown by the legendary Aimo:

Spoiler

[Lebanese Dude]

I actually agree with panda that there is a difference between sexy and sexualized. Example: I think most people would agree that Elena Fisher from uncharted is a sexy woman. Yet the game does not sexualize her.

 

Pretty sure that sexiness and sexual-ization are relatively subjective viewpoints to begin with.

 

What is considered sexy varies by person, although it is true there are general traits that human beings find attractive in general.

 

What is considered sexualized in one culture or subculture may be different from that in another

 

etc...

[Laurelinde]

If you actually think any game developer is excluding anyone because they aren't straight or white or male, then you have a distorted perception of reality, tbh.

 

http://www.themarysu...ife-is-strange/

 

This is just one example, from a few weeks ago.  I'd be willing to bet there are more.  (Please note that the quote you're replying to does specify characters, not players.)  I'd have to do some research to be sure, but going by representation in other media like films, it would not surprise me if games characters overall do not represent real world diversity all that well.  In some cases this will make sense (games set in a very particular cultural setting, or not set on Earth) but in other cases it probably doesn't, at least for things like crowd/street scenes.

 

 

I take it you don't like being oogled in real life as a woman?

 

 

Go to any number of discussions about street harassment and catcalling (e.g. Hollaback), or even the old #yesallwomen hashtag on twitter and you will find a plethora of women explaining how they don't enjoy being treated like a side of beef in a meat market by strangers.  Do some people feel flattered, at least some of the time?  Yes, partly due to personality and partly due to the fact that women are socialised to want to be pretty and to be perceived as such, because it gives us cultural value.  None of us is immune to societal and cultural pressures to conform, even if some conform more than others.  But it definitely carries, or often can carry, an element of feeling dehumanised and feeling unsafe too.