1820 réponses à ce sujet

[Ynqve]

 

Go to any number of discussions about street harassment and catcalling (e.g. Hollaback), or even the old #yesallwomen hashtag on twitter and you will find a plethora of women explaining how they don't enjoy being treated like a side of beef in a meat market by strangers.  Do some people feel flattered, at least some of the time?  Yes, partly due to personality and partly due to the fact that women are socialised to want to be pretty and to be perceived as such, because it gives us cultural value.  None of us is immune to societal and cultural pressures to conform, even if some conform more than others.  But it definitely carries, or often can carry, an element of feeling dehumanised and feeling unsafe too.

 

 

I'll never get why people do that. What do they expect is going to happen if they cat call?  

 

"Yuss! This random guy called my sexy, I will now have crazy animal sex with him in the nearest alley!"

 

Does it ever work?

[HuldraDancer]

I'll never get why people do that. What do they expect is going to happen if they cat call?  

 

"Yuss! This random guy called my sexy, I will now have crazy animal sex with him in the nearest alley!"

 

Does it ever work?

 

My guess would be that they are hoping to get flashed at least? It rarely works but I have seen it happened before though granted lots of booze was involved.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I don't think anyone can argue against that female characters are portrayed more sexy and attractive in games even when it means that their design and animation would go against their personality

This is getting ridiculous. Unless you want to argue that being sexy/attractive or wearing certain clothes, revealing or not, makes you unable to have some specific personality traits this makes no bloody sense.

 

And I really want to see how you'll argue personality being dependent on appearance or wardrobe.

[Ynqve]

My guess would be that they are hoping to get flashed at least? It rarely works but I have seen it happened before though granted lots of booze was involved.

 

Hmm, I suppose. But it's still stupid. 

[Colonelkillabee]

 

http://www.themarysu...ife-is-strange/

 

This is just one example, from a few weeks ago.  I'd be willing to bet there are more.  (Please note that the quote you're replying to does specify characters, not players.)  I'd have to do some research to be sure, but going by representation in other media like films, it would not surprise me if games characters overall do not represent real world diversity all that well.  In some cases this will make sense (games set in a very particular cultural setting, or not set on Earth) but in other cases it probably doesn't, at least for things like crowd/street scenes.

 

I'm willing to bet this is horseshit simply because we have games with female leads already that do fine. Mirror's Edge, Walking Dead, Tomb raider and especially Bayonetta 2. There's not many, that's true, but even so, my comment was for discriminating in general, not for main leads as protagonists.

[HuldraDancer]

Hmm, I suppose. But it's still stupid. 

 

Oh most definitely agreed. It is quite stupid.

[Colonelkillabee]

They have certain models that repeat, yes, but there is a middle aged townswoman as well as the elderly woman. TW2 expanded this so that the older women do have real variety and interesting character models. The Witcher has some of the best character modeling in RPG's, especially in TW2, so your criticisms are really, really off base.

Spoiler

Witcher 1:

 

Witcher 2:

 
I don't find any shots of them, but in TW2 there are the older women in the village like the chief's wife and older female innkeepers as well as a middle aged madam. These all have different personalities, too, some positive, neutral or negative- as good characters should.

Even the "sexualized" characters have really cool character designs. Triss has some of the best female concept art I've ever seen.

 

 Wait... Isabela is not sexualized? I think you've got an arbitrary mindset and it's actually hard to follow what you're criticizing and what's "acceptable." Except Bioware= good and everything else bad.
 

That's... what?

 

 

AH GOD! LOOK AT ALL THE SEXUAL OBJECTIFICATION! THOSE MOULDY OLD BOSOMS ARE JUST THERE FOR YOUNG MEN TO OGGLE! BECAUSE THAT'S DEFS WHAT YOUNG MALES WANT TO SEE! GAH!

 

And oh my GOD, Look at all that skin that woman at the bottom is showing! GASP! Witcher doesn't give a single **** ABOUT WOMEN!

[Laurelinde]

I'm willing to bet this is horseshit simply because we have games with female leads already that do fine. Mirror's Edge, Walking Dead, Tomb raider and especially Bayonetta 2. There's not many, that's true, but even so, my comment was for discriminating in general, not for main leads as protagonists.

 

http://www.eurogamer...le-protagonists

 

http://www.themarysu...t-the-industry/- the article they link is gone and I can't find a cache anywhere, but it explains how marketing and funding can play into the idea

 

http://www.vg247.com...tars-dont-sell/

 

http://www.techtimes...odachi-life.htm(slightly different example since same-sex marriage is illegal in Japan, but contributes to the overall situation)

 

http://www.pastemaga...and-the-17.html- discussing games and other media as well

 

I'm not just pulling this idea out of my head, I promise.  I'm going based on what I've seen, heard and read over the last 30 years, in articles like these and others. 

[Abyss108]

I'm willing to bet this is horseshit simply because we have games with female leads already that do fine. Mirror's Edge, Walking Dead, Tomb raider and especially Bayonetta 2. There's not many, that's true, but even so, my comment was for discriminating in general, not for main leads as protagonists.

 

There is also Remember Me, which had problems getting made because of its female protagonist. It was demanded that the game have 0 romantic content because if a guy plays it and she kisses a man it would be "gay" and make him uncomfortable.

[Xetykins]

http://www.themarysu...ife-is-strange/
 
This is just one example, from a few weeks ago.  I'd be willing to bet there are more.  (Please note that the quote you're replying to does specify characters, not players.)  I'd have to do some research to be sure, but going by representation in other media like films, it would not surprise me if games characters overall do not represent real world diversity all that well.  In some cases this will make sense (games set in a very particular cultural setting, or not set on Earth) but in other cases it probably doesn't, at least for things like crowd/street scenes.
 

 



 
Go to any number of discussions about street harassment and catcalling (e.g. Hollaback), or even the old #yesallwomen hashtag on twitter and you will find a plethora of women explaining how they don't enjoy being treated like a side of beef in a meat market by strangers.  Do some people feel flattered, at least some of the time?  Yes, partly due to personality and partly due to the fact that women are socialised to want to be pretty and to be perceived as such, because it gives us cultural value.  None of us is immune to societal and cultural pressures to conform, even if some conform more than others.  But it definitely carries, or often can carry, an element of feeling dehumanised and feeling unsafe too.

I'm sorry some women feel that way but i just dont. None of my hordes of girlfriends either even the lesbians don't mind being looked at by men and considered it good fun. That's why I'm baffled.

Still i dont see how it relates to sexiness in the game. If i see sexy character like Morrigan I kind of appreciate them rather than get offended by them. In fact i tried to copy her make up and ended up looking like a racoon!

[Colonelkillabee]

http://www.eurogamer...le-protagonists

 

http://www.themarysu...t-the-industry/- the article they link is gone and I can't find a cache anywhere, but it explains how marketing and funding can play into the idea

 

http://www.vg247.com...tars-dont-sell/

 

http://www.techtimes...odachi-life.htm(slightly different example since same-sex marriage is illegal in Japan, but contributes to the overall situation)

 

http://www.pastemaga...and-the-17.html- discussing games and other media as well

 

I'm not just pulling this idea out of my head, I promise.  I'm going based on what I've seen, heard and read over the last 30 years, in articles like these and others. 

Ok then fair enough, when it comes to protagonists for games, the people who control the $$$ for game developers do need to change their thinking when it comes to female protagonists. They have alot of issues in general when it comes to what they do and don't think will sell, and they're limiting creativity as much as the people demanding more this or that from the creators.

 

My point on women being in games in general though and diversity still stands.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

There is also Remember Me, which had problems getting made because of its female protagonist. It was demanded that the game have 0 romantic content because if a guy plays it and she kisses a man it would be "gay" and make him uncomfortable.

I remember that, she was supposed to have a boyfriend play a bigger role but it got removed incase some male gamers rejected it, kinda f**ked up considering there's plenty of straight women who have no alternative choice but to play games as straight male PC's with compulsory female Li's & they don't freak out nearly as much even tho it might make them just as uncomfortable

[I present Chuck Bass]

cry babies

[I present Chuck Bass]

I remember that, she was supposed to have a boyfriend play a bigger role but it got removed incase some male gamers rejected it, kinda f**ked up considering there's plenty of straight women who have no alternative choice but to play games as straight male PC's with compulsory female Li's & they don't freak out nearly as much even tho it might make them just as uncomfortable

yes, the developers followed the money. Makes sense.

[AresKeith]

There is also Remember Me, which had problems getting made because of its female protagonist. It was demanded that the game have 0 romantic content because if a guy plays it and she kisses a man it would be "gay" and make him uncomfortable.

Really?

That's just stupid.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

yes, the developers followed the money. Makes sense.

Yes, lets remove some important story elements from a game just incase some guys ain't able to handle their straight female PC kissing a man & see it as gay

[Panda]

This is getting ridiculous. Unless you want to argue that being sexy/attractive or wearing certain clothes, revealing or not, makes you unable to have some specific personality traits this makes no bloody sense.

 

And I really want to see how you'll argue personality being dependent on appearance or wardrobe.

 

It's pretty obvious when character is wearing revealing outfits just fanservice reason and not because it fits them. It's just quite obvious when camera angles choom female characters ass or boobs that it is just for fanservice. To me at least it's no brainer.

 

And yes outfit is reflection on people's personality. Cassandra has armor cause she's badass lady but her armor has hearts cause she's romantic etc. It's called character design for reason.

 

In games female characters usually have more revealing outfits than male characters and it sure isn't because it fits to their character in lot of times. With some yes but with everyone nope. When it comes to male characters usually realistic approach is used when designing armors but when it comes to women realism suddenly goes through window with all boob-plates and steel bikinis. It's clear than when female characters in general are being made in the games often their sexiness and attractiviness is starting point.

[Nightdragon8]

Have you noticed that as a male inquisitor the romance options are limited, only 2 characters are male exclusive Dorian and Cassandra, the other two Iron Bull and Josephine can be romanced by the either sex.

And female inquisitors have more choice, Blackwall, Cullen, Solas, Sera are exclusive. 

i knew of this before the game came out, it was on the DA:Wiki about who was romancable to what.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

In games female characters usually have more revealing outfits than male characters and it sure isn't because it fits to their character in lot of times. With some yes but with everyone nope. When it comes to male characters usually realistic approach is used when designing armors but when it comes to women realism suddenly goes through window with all boob-plates and steel bikinis. It's clear than when female characters in general are being made in the games often their sexiness and attractiviness is starting point.

I don't mind sexy outfits/armour if i have a choice to wear them, i dislike it when its forced, especially when there's 2 versions of the same outfit & the male version looks functional while the female version just looks sexy

[I present Chuck Bass]

Yes, lets remove some important story elements from a game just incase some guys ain't able to handle their straight female PC kissing a man & see it as gay

 Well, if as a devloper this is going to make you more money...then yes.

I see what you're saying and agree, but it all boils down to money. If removing those elements results in more money made, then it makes sense to do just that...UNLESS you have integrity in your product, then you would keep those elements no matter what. But sadly, this isn't the case for most devlopers. It's all about that cash flow.

[TevinterSupremacist]

And yes outfit is reflection on people's personality.

Okay, okay, normally I would address what I felt was wrong in the rest of your post, like generalisations and such, but no.

 

You are beyond help.

[I present Chuck Bass]

It's pretty obvious when character is wearing revealing outfits just fanservice reason and not because it fits them. It's just quite obvious when camera angles choom female characters ass or boobs that it is just for fanservice. To me at least it's no brainer.

 

And yes outfit is reflection on people's personality. Cassandra has armor cause she's badass lady but her armor has hearts cause she's romantic etc. It's called character design for reason.

 

In games female characters usually have more revealing outfits than male characters and it sure isn't because it fits to their character in lot of times. With some yes but with everyone nope. When it comes to male characters usually realistic approach is used when designing armors but when it comes to women realism suddenly goes through window with all boob-plates and steel bikinis. It's clear than when female characters in general are being made in the games often their sexiness and attractiviness is starting point.

 

So should everyone just wear priest robes? I hate to be this scumbag, but often armor models( skin tight,body part emphasizing,etc) is just a relfection of what a MAJORITY(NOT ALL) of what women under the ages of 40 wear in western society.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Well, if as a devloper this is going to make you more money...then yes.
I see what you're saying and agree, but it all boils down to money. If removing those elements results in more money made, then it makes sense to do just that...UNLESS you have integrity in your product, then you would keep those elements no matter what. But sadly, this isn't the case for most devlopers. It's all about that cash flow.

Is unnecessary IMO, the type of guy who would get seriously offended at a female PC kissing her boyfriend is not likely to even buy a game with a female lead character in the 1st place

[Ynqve]

So should everyone just wear priest robes? I hate to be this scumbag, but often armor models( skin tight,body part emphasizing,etc) is just a relfection of what a MAJORITY(NOT ALL) of what women under the ages of 40 wear in western society.

 

What. 

[Fandango]

In games female characters usually have more revealing outfits than male characters and it sure isn't because it fits to their character in lot of times. With some yes but with everyone nope. When it comes to male characters usually realistic approach is used when designing armors but when it comes to women realism suddenly goes through window with all boob-plates and steel bikinis. It's clear than when female characters in general are being made in the games often their sexiness and attractiviness is starting point.

Where are you getting this information from Panda, because that's certainly not true of the games I've been playing for the past 30 years or so? Citation needed please.