253 réponses à ce sujet

[phishface]

There may be all kinds of things wrong with the story and Florianne, but she does have the best line in the game, during her trial. And that line is 'peh' (or maybe 'mnh'). It's her first response during her trial, and always makes me smile.

 

[darkway1]

They haven't always been - but maybe they are kind of burned out (or maybe they have used up their great ideas?)...who knows?

 

Or, they have actually forced the great ones to leave (wouldn't surprise me...remember the dark-energie-subplot in Mass Effect? - The guys who thought that up will have probably felt like idiots when they simplified the story like that and completely dropped that!) or maybe they actively fired them (or forced them to write less greatly) in order to please the COD-Crowd more (action-mode...come on it's an RPG, auto-dialogue should not happen and action-mode shouldn't even exist -.- if you want that: play a game with loads of cutscenes, like COD)

 

greetings LAX

ps: I agree that the story has several points like that (Corypheus alone...come on a more believable, less cliche villain (who has a motivation we could - under different circumstances even support - understand) would have been great, then there's that quest about the mages (come on, they dumb down Fiona considerably and we are talking about a shrewd leader who once was a Grey Warden, not some dumb school-kid -.-)), but that's one of the worst...she should have at least attempted to kill you or something

 

I also agree that recent Bioware games weren't as good as what we expect from them (DA:2, ME3 and DA:I were quite bad in fact...at least for Bioware games!)

 

 

Yeah,I agree,I always thought of Bioware as a pioneer in the games industry,they inspired not just gamers but fellow developers like CDRED (Witcher),from a creative perspective,I feel that Bioware really pushed story content in a direction never seen before,characters and story continually presented a different perspective to your own and the "choice mechanic" was used to present some brilliant and unexpected twists......Morrigans offer at the end of DAO is a perfect example,never saw that one coming.    

 

I really don't know what has happened to Bioware,they no longer seem to understand the game structure they themselves created and yet developers like CDRED who have mimicked Bioware's style of story telling have gone from strength to strength,proving the old Bioware formula is still very effective,even in an open world format.

[robertthebard]

The Enavuris didn't try to stop him, they were tricked and didn't know he even planned to create the veil. And if we can't stop him, I would not be impressed. What would be the point of an entire game getting to know him, a DLC revealing him as an antagonist, and most likely another entire game fighting him, only to lose no matter what because they want to severely alter the foundation of the world-as-you-know-it? Sounds too familiar for Bioware, and I hope they don't go that route again.

Let's look at what we're facing here, a guy that turned a Qunari strike team into statues with a thought. What chance should we have? Like I said, if we lay down some really serious groundwork, we should have a chance, but if not, I don't want it to be "because the good guys should always win".
 
 

It got ONE cut-scene and even that didn't show you a real civil war.  All it really showed is that Loghain wasn't having it all his way and that there was political strife in Denerim.  That's it.  It's something you as the player needed to appreciate but otherwise it just wasn't that important until after you filled all the treaties you could.

Yeah, this was my point. Someone making out like this was really important at all in Origins wasn't paying a lot of attention. It should have been really important, we should have seen more evidence of it, since it's talked about, but we didn't. We see it in Inquisition, even though there's a cease fire for the peace talks, we see lots of evidence, and even refugees from it.

[Ariella]

I also agree that recent Bioware games weren't as good as what we expect from them (DA:2, ME3 and DA:I were quite bad in fact...at least for Bioware games!)

You thought they were bad. DA2 had problems, but actually had quite an innovative storytelling mechanic in the unreliable narrator, ME 3 was amazingly detailed, they painted all the damn corners. Yes, the ending was a problem, one that they did attempt to fix, but at the same time they did try to close it with something else rather than a boss fight, which I think is pretty damn cool.

As for DAI, that's just completely subjective, though it's ironic you complain since Bioware listened to the fans' complaints about DA2 and did as they were asked, within how the DA team thought it should go.

[BansheeOwnage]

Let's look at what we're facing here, a guy that turned a Qunari strike team into statues with a thought. What chance should we have? Like I said, if we lay down some really serious groundwork, we should have a chance, but if not, I don't want it to be "because the good guys should always win".

You know it's par-for-the-course for villains to be much more powerful than heroes, right? Then they have to find some way of beating them. There's not much drama otherwise. So I fully expect the hero to find something to beat Solas with, whether that's a magical weak-point, powerful allies like Titans, or some Deus Ex Machina. I don't know why you're treating Solas as different than most other villains. I don't like the veil coming down no matter what you do for other reasons, though.

[Ariella]

You know it's par-for-the-course for villains to be much more powerful than heroes, right? Then they have to find some way of beating them. There's not much drama otherwise. So I fully expect the hero to find something to beat Solas with, whether that's a magical weak-point, powerful allies like Titans, or some Deus Ex Machina. I don't know why you're treating Solas as different than most other villains. I don't like the veil coming down no matter what you do for other reasons, though.

 

Personally, I don't want a magical weak point. I want to hit him in a character one. Hit his pride. Hit his arrogance. That should be the weapon. Make him feel secure, then mouse trap the bastard.

[robertthebard]

Personally, I don't want a magical weak point. I want to hit him in a character one. Hit his pride. Hit his arrogance. That should be the weapon. Make him feel secure, then mouse trap the bastard.

...and punch him again, just because...

[Ariella]

...and punch him again, just because...

 

And suddenly, I have the Raiders of the Lost Ark sword fight in my mind:

 

Solas pulls out magical uber wooj... PC shoots him. End of story. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Personally, I don't want a magical weak point. I want to hit him in a character one. Hit his pride. Hit his arrogance. That should be the weapon. Make him feel secure, then mouse trap the bastard.

I don't disagree, I was just listing possible things that could cause a win.

[thats1evildude]

There may be all kinds of things wrong with the story and Florianne, but she does have the best line in the game, during her trial. And that line is 'peh' (or maybe 'mnh'). It's her first response during her trial, and always makes me smile.

 

 

Boy, the lady Inquisitor sure slouches, doesn't she? Or maybe that's just because of the chair.

[AresKeith]

I just think that the simple fact that none of it is told through more cinematic, cutscene conversations hurts it. It's just the Inquisitor standing there, staring at the person they're talking to, who's just staring back. It's not engaging. 

 

Hell, I completely missed Michel on my first playthrough because I thought he was just a patrolling guard or something.

 

Along with being a bit generic looking

[thats1evildude]

I just think that the simple fact that none of it is told through more cinematic, cutscene conversations hurts it. It's just the Inquisitor standing there, staring at the person they're talking to, who's just staring back. It's not engaging. 

 

Hell, I completely missed Michel on my first playthrough because I thought he was just a patrolling guard or something.

 

Well, DAO was definitely superior in this regard. It only had one person blankly staring at the other during conversations.

[In Exile]

My interpretation was that Florianne arranged for the ceasefire under the pretense that the war wasn't going anywhere, and with the sky torn by the Breach, everyone recognized there were bigger problems on the horizon.

The point of the masquerade was not just to kill Celene, but to pin her death on Gaspard. Leaderless and divided, Orlais would never rally to oppose Corypheus, thus handing him an easy victory.

The appearance of the undead on the Exalted Plains began after the ceasefire was called, as Gordian manipulated the Freemen into bringing him corpses to stack in the pits. At the same time, Fairbanks began gathering refugees together and the clashed with the Freemen. The Red Templars also insinuated themselves into Emprise Du Lion, first appearing as benefactors before eventually dropping the act.

As for the gloating thing, well, it's not like the Inquisitor wouldn't know who lured them into a trap. Florianne tells the Inquisitor to go to the royal wing, and suddenly they're attacked by Tevinter assassins? Plus, the harlequin tried to kill Briala's friend in her old room, and the Fereldan mercenary said she had lured him there as well. All evidence pointed at her as Corypheus' collaborator; she might as well gloat.

I agree partly. Listen to her taunt again - she's very bitter about Gaspard. She says he "won't see that coming" (or something to that effect). I recall her being the elder sibling but that's less material. She is very bitter about how irrelevant she's been relative to her brother and cousin. Her codex entries support this point.

That's part of why she's doing it. People are looking to see a sophisticated plot - something like the Game - in her move. But there isn't. She's a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

[KCMeredith]

I still don't get how she missed me with her arrow, I was literally one step in front of her.

[Zaalbar]

ME3's Starchild and Kai Leng.

 

Florianne's writing is a magnum opus compared to that garbage.

[Bleachrude]

I agree partly. Listen to her taunt again - she's very bitter about Gaspard. She says he "won't see that coming" (or something to that effect). I recall her being the elder sibling but that's less material. She is very bitter about how irrelevant she's been relative to her brother and cousin. Her codex entries support this point.

That's part of why she's doing it. People are looking to see a sophisticated plot - something like the Game - in her move. But there isn't. She's a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with the "child throwing a tantrum" part. Reading her codex, her whole life has been structured to be "support your brother" and this was probably the first thing she could claim  where she was the focus....weirdly, I actually feel somewhat sorry for her...

[ModernAcademic]

Boy, the lady Inquisitor sure slouches, doesn't she? Or maybe that's just because of the chair.

 

She also keeps her legs wide open while sitting on that throne.

 

Is anyone in the animation department paying attention? Stop being lazy and make proper animations for women.

[thats1evildude]

Well, it's not like she's showing off anything. Don't women in jeans sit like that?

[o Ventus]

The film is so-so, but the graphic novel is a master piece.

I don't get how the film can be rated lower than the comic, when the film is 99.999999999% of the comic, but simply transposed to a different medium. The only things they changed are 1 detail in Rorschach's... Origin story (splitting a man's skull with a meat cleaver as opposed to setting him on fire)? And the not-alien. The not-alien easily almost killed the comic for me with how insanely retarded it was as a twist, on top of undermining Ozymandias' plan in the long run and ultimately making it all one big waste of life and time.

 

Like, when the world's governments eventually find out that aliens aren't actually invading the Earth, what then? They're going to go back to war with each other. The film's version was much more plausible in-universe since Dr. Manhattan is an ever-present entity, and his growing disillusionment with humanity makes a hypothetical attack from him something to be afraid of.

[o Ventus]

Well, it's not like she's showing off anything. Don't women in jeans sit like that?

 

Not even just jeans, but pants in general. I know a handful of women who sit like the Inquisitor does. It isn't some unnatural position to be in that no human being would take voluntarily, unlike how some people want to depict it as.

[Neria]

Well, I sit like that myself... And I'm a woman...
It's not how the Inquisitor sit that's disturbing, but how she walks in cinematics. She's like a hunchback with perpetually outstretched arms ! It feels so unnatural !

[Ryzaki]

Yeah that walking animation tho =/

[vbibbi]

I don't get how the film can be rated lower than the comic, when the film is 99.999999999% of the comic, but simply transposed to a different medium. The only things they changed are 1 detail in Rorschach's... Origin story (splitting a man's skull with a meat cleaver as opposed to setting him on fire)? And the not-alien. The not-alien easily almost killed the comic for me with how insanely retarded it was as a twist, on top of undermining Ozymandias' plan in the long run and ultimately making it all one big waste of life and time.

 

Like, when the world's governments eventually find out that aliens aren't actually invading the Earth, what then? They're going to go back to war with each other. The film's version was much more plausible in-universe since Dr. Manhattan is an ever-present entity, and his growing disillusionment with humanity makes a hypothetical attack from him something to be afraid of.

 

Yeah I watched the film when it came out but just recently read the graphic novel. I'm not sure why the novel is lauded more than the film, I didn't find that many differences in them...? And I agree that the alien subplot was over the top and didn't mind its removal.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the "child throwing a tantrum" part. Reading her codex, her whole life has been structured to be "support your brother" and this was probably the first thing she could claim  where she was the focus....weirdly, I actually feel somewhat sorry for her...

 

Yes, it seemed a situation where she was one of the highest ranking nobles in Orlais, but knew she would never be on the throne and never had any actual power of her own. She was a tool to be used by her brother and maybe others of the Game, but was an extension of his political power, not her own entity. So her character motivation to work against Celene and Gaspard is believable enough, it's just the execution which was ham fisted. Yes she was throwing a metaphorical tantrum, but even a tantrum in the Game would be handled more elegantly than how she acted. She lived her life being a political puppet and now, she gloats about her master plan to an outsider? WEWH makes a big deal of how the Inquisitor is looked down on by Orlesian nobility because of their background, even though they've managed to accomplish so much. So why would Florianne care about impressing the PC with her diabolical plan when they're a social nobody?

 

And really, what was her plan after killing Celene? Blame it on Gaspard, sure, but she would also be taken into custody. Or was she cool with sitting in a jail cell until the Venatori overran the Orlesian Empire and busted her out of her cell?

[ModernAcademic]

Well, it's not like she's showing off anything. Don't women in jeans sit like that?

 

Idk. In a romanced Blackwall trial, having her just sprawled like that sure feels awkward. Dude lifts his head and what does he see first? Her crotch.

 

She doesn't have to cross her legs. Just sit straight, like a normal person. But jugding from the cutscenes, it's like she's doing it on purpose.

 

Maybe that's why Samson kept staring down during his trial. 

[MrMrPendragon]

I knew Wicked Eyes wasn't going to be THAT great as soon as I walked in with that ugly red outfit

 

 

Anyway, I personally thought all the villains in this game are dumb.

 

1. Corypheus risks defeat by picking a sacrifice who's located at a heavily guarded site (Divine at Peace Summit), rather than pick a random sacrifice at the end of nowhere and go for the instant victory

 

2. Clarel not double-checking facts before committing mass murder. "Corypheus?! Well I didn't think he'd be involved! Woops"

 

And basically what you said about Florianne.